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EU moving closer to Facebook ban
- AdriaanvRossum 4y agoWould it ever come that far?
- frouge 4y agoFingers crossed!
- mrwnmonm 4y agoA little bit off-topic: Do people here satisfied with DuckDuckGo?
- pumkesjaan 4y agoPretty much yeah, sometimes I feel its a bit off but not going back to Google or Bing
- ratww 4y agoGoogle also hasn't been working too well for me lately, so yeah.
- lemoncookiechip 4y agoI use DDG as my primary search engine, but satisfied wouldn't be how I would describe myself, because even at it's worse, Google is still better than all the competition, and I find myself using !g a lot. DDG, Yandex, Bing, and other indie search engines just don't seem to have the broad range of Google for a lot of obscure searches. It probably doesn't help that a lot of information nowadays is behind places like Discord servers and other random blockades. EDIT: And yes, Google UI and functionalities are getting worse and worse, but the their search results are still the best (even if you have to scroll down).
- blibble 4y agoit's not great, but it's not that much worse that google and has none of the user-hostile bullshit
- richardsocher 4y agoWe hear a lot of DDG users liking the better results and apps on https://you.com https://you.com
- mrwnmonm 4y agoDownvotes? It is a question.
- Barrin92 4y agonah, Facebook is never going to literally go offline as it would be too disruptive, but it'll hopefully accelerate the push towards processing all European user data on the continent itself. The lesson from this should be that regulation should be proactive. Privacy frameworks and safeguards to make sure EU citizens have EU protections ought to have been in place 10 years ago when these platforms were going global.
- tiernano 4y agoWould this technically mean that any eu Facebook user is not visible to us users?
- ceeplusplus 4y agoMore likely you have to connect to EU servers from the US to view EU users. But this is not really any more complex than adding another sharding split. Since model weights and embeddings are widely considered to not be user data either (they are derivative works) I don't think the EU's requirements have any real impact to privacy or FB's ability to operate. All this regulation will only entrench the big players who can afford expensive software engineers to run globally distributed systems that respect privacy regulations. You can't just spin up some servers in us-east-1 and focus on building your app now. Your data is still getting vacuumed up, just on the EU continent instead of in a US datacenter. But NSA/Five Eyes has everywhere wiretapped anyways so your data is equally as unsafe as it would be in a US datacenter.
- rdxm 4y ago
- baby 4y ago> regulation should be proactive you really risk thwarting innovation when you do that though
- MrMan 4y ago
- Arrezz 4y agoI honestly hope that Facebook is banned so that all the events and organizational stuff can go to a more open and honest platform.
- baby 4y agoGood luck trying to recreate the social graphs you created thanks to fb
- hansword 4y agoI have exactly 0 of these, so recreating should take roughly 0 seconds, give or take.
- baby 4y agoThanks for your data point. There’s a billion people who don’t fit yours though
- ngetchell 4y agoSocial graphs? Did you mean relationships? We don't have to use FB terminology when we have perfectly fine words already.
- hansword 4y agoHe worked for FB as security lead of the Diem/Libra/Novi blockchain/crypto/abandonedProject.
- AlchemistCamp 4y agoThe term “graph” in this context comes from mathematics, not Facebook: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_theory
- ngetchell 4y agoKind of inhuman dont you think for a discussion about people?
- sys_64738 4y agoWhat FB products though? WhatsApp?
- baby 4y agowhatsapp is a product of Meta, not fb
- sys_64738 4y agoFacebook is the umbrella org for all the products.
- dangrossman 4y agoMeta is the umbrella org, listing both Facebook and WhatsApp under "what we build" on their site. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22facebook+parent+company+meta%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22facebook+parent+company+m... https://meta.com/ https://meta.com/
- sys_64738 4y agoWho cares. They'll always bet Facebook to most folk.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- the_duke 4y agoThe amusing thing is: Schrems2 basically established that any US based company storing EU citizen data is not allowed because US agencies have access without any due process, even if the data is stored in the EU. It's just that the entire industry has decided to ignore the implications and go on like that ruling never happened. Well, almost. There is a serious effort by some companies to move off of AWS/GC/Azure and various other SaaS services.
- miohtama 4y agoEuropean Microsoft Azure operates as an independent German entity, or was some time ago at least.
- the_duke 4y agoAs far as I know they initially essentialy leased out the technology to an independent operator, but stopped doing that quite a while ago. No hard source to point to tough.
- someweirdperson 4y agoDeutsche Telekom. I also remember it being stopped, but looks like it has been revived.
- trevex 4y agoCould you point me to the source. I was under the impression it is dead and Deutsche Telekom now collaborates with Google Cloud on the so called Sovereign Cloud [1]. [1] https://cloud.google.com/t-systems-sovereign-cloud https://cloud.google.com/t-systems-sovereign-cloud
- someweirdperson 4y agoDeutsche Telekom [0]: "In den DE-Versionen Daten-Speicherung der Kundendaten ausschließlich in sicheren Rechenzentren in Deutschland mit der Zugangskontrolle durch den unabhängigen Datentreuhändern T-Systems" This sounds as if Microsoft would not have access to data, which is managed by T-Systems independently. But there might of course be something in the fine print. My browser is set to prefer English, cookie banners etc. are working, but the rest of the site won't switch, cannot find a button to manually switch either. [0] https://geschaeftskunden.telekom.de/digitale-loesungen/software-as-a-service/office-365-enterprise-editionen https://geschaeftskunden.telekom.de/digitale-loesungen/softw...
- lemoncookiechip 4y agoI doubt this would end well for the EU if it actually got banned. Social media platforms like FB, Instagram, TikTok..., are too ingrained in people's daily lives for them to just accept it without causing a massive backlash for politicians (who likely also use it, as well as their families). Not to mention WhatsApp is used by a lot of mid-sized companies as a method of rapid communication (for whatever weird reason), as well as small local businesses that rely on it to directly communicate with their customers (the same type that uses gmail for businesses purposes). And just used in general by everyone is most of the EU region.
- bamboozled 4y ago“Without a massive backlash?” I’d actually be surprised if this was true. I’m probably addicted to scrolling social media. I’m tired of it. If it was forcibly removed from my life and there was no social pressure for me to use it. I’d be happy. I’m sure I’m not alone.
- unicornporn 4y agoYou're not. :)
- ribosometronome 4y agoPlenty of people would say the same of something like alcohol. Outright banning it tends to be relatively unpopular though. That said, this is pretty different since you'd just get social pressure to move to an EU alternative.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y agoI think a lot of this discussion, ignores geopolitics. If the EU really causes serious pain to the likes of Facebook/Google all that money spent on lobbying will come into play. Especially now, the US holds a lot of cards with respect to the EU, especially Germany. My guess is that this issue will resolve with an agreement with some cosmetic changes, but will still, in actuality, allow the US to get at the data it wants.
- nivenkos 4y agoYeah, the EU has pretty much no competing companies unlike Russia + China. And it is now completely reliant on the US for LNG imports, meanwhile the Euro is collapsing since it has to be sold en masse for USD for those imports, and also for Rubles for Russian gas now that Russia only accepts Ruble payments. Turkey is also on the verge of complete collapse and is currently holding over ten million refugees for the EU. This winter through next spring looks like it will be a complete disaster.
- pessimizer 4y agoThis would be a good move for the EU. If they faithfully clone a competitor, especially one more utility-focused (i.e. taking public funding) than marketing-focused, Americans would ditch facebook faster than people left Digg. I have doubts about the EU's ability to execute on that, but all they need to do is give people the exact same shit without the contamination of Meta, and make data import from facebook seamless.
- dataking 4y agoFrance and Germany tried their hand at a publicly funded Google (search engine) competitor [0]. It is also worth reading up on EU projects such as Galileo and Gaia-X. If history is any guide, it would not likely go according to plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago> France and Germany tried their hand at a publicly funded Google (search engine) competitor [0]. From linked wiki page: > The consortium was led by Thomson SA. As an ex-Technicolor employee, it doesn’t surprise me that this went nowhere.
- mhitza 4y agoNot sure about Galileo, but Gaia-X is not an EU project. It's a project started by a group of private companies, just because they are companies located in the EU, it does not make it an EU project. Anyway, Gaia-X will definitely be a flop, or rather, will remain vaporware IMHO.
- nequo 4y agoIt's already banned around here. $ grep facebook /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 facebook.com www.facebook.com $
- chaostheory 4y agoImo it feels like the start of a trade war. Until Russia and China stepped in, EU US relations have been progressively declining. If both of our adversaries were more patient, relations would have eventually weakened NATO.
- wanderingmind 4y agoGreat. Time to start loading stocks of companies providing VPN services.
- stereoradonc 4y agoIf this comes to fruition, a round of beer for everyone!
- olliej 4y agoWow, overblown headline. Facebook is not "being banned", Facebook is simply being required to protect EU citizen's information the same way every other company is. Part of that means not subjecting them to warrantless surveillance, since the US government has repeatedly and aggressively said that the data any company has from anyone not living in the US has no such protection. If this hurts Facebook's business they should go and talk to the US government about why it has decided to cause such harm. Obviously this makes the US government (and gruber and similar tech pundits) complaining about TikTok complete bullshit. TikTok is literally doing exactly what Facebook is doing, why should that data be any less accessible to the PRC gov than Facebook's data is to the US?
- cm2012 4y agoFor your last point, because the US and EU are allies while China is not. Plus China's human rights abuses are a whole other league from western countries.
- olliej 4y agoYes, the EU and the US are allies, which makes the wanton abuse of EU citizen's right to privacy less reasonable, not more. [edit: wanton not wonton, though wontons are good]
- einszwei 4y agoClickbait. Schrems 2 is old news [1]. And my guess is a new US-EU deal will be struck[2] because US currently is in stronger position (geopolitically) than EU. But if that fails - we would still have Facebook EU, Whatsapp EU, Instagram EU etc. Which IMHO is worse than current state. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/09/facebook-told-it-may-have-to-suspend-eu-data-transfers-after-schrems-ii-ruling/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/09/facebook-told-it-may-have-... [2]: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-us-strike-preliminary-deal-to-unlock-transatlantic-data-flows/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-us-strike-preliminary-dea...
- sershe 4y agoJust after Russia did it, so they'll be in a good company. Why do politicians always have to decide this kind of stuff for people? I view it as basically because they are evil. If an adult consents to have their data accessible to FBI or whatever, in exchange for being able to post selfies and click the cow, let them. Nope, Putin/EUtin think they know better than you.
- Markoff 4y agoPff, just another promise they won't deliver. Too good to be truth.
- aspyct 4y agoYeah, death to Facebook :D No, seriously though. It may well impact my sales, but it's a price I'm willing to pay.
- fprct 4y agoGDPR 49/1a explicitly states possible workarounds (https://gdpr-info.eu/art-49-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-49-gdpr/): "In the absence of an adequacy decision pursuant to Article 45(3), or of appropriate safeguards pursuant to Article 46, including binding corporate rules, a transfer or a set of transfers of personal data to a third country or an international organisation shall take place only on one of the following conditions: a. the data subject has explicitly consented to the proposed transfer, after having been informed of the possible risks of such transfers for the data subject due to the absence of an adequacy decision and appropriate safeguards;" Does someone here know why does this apparently seem not to apply? Couldn't FB just ask for a consent?
- rlupi 4y agoTaking Schrems2 to the logical consequences, will we, from EU, have to leave HN or github too?