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> We can hem & haw and browbeat consumers, but if they want to buy big trucks.. better EV flavored ones than V8 coal rolling polluters. Yes, or perhaps regulat

> We can hem & haw and browbeat consumers, but if they want to buy big trucks.. better EV flavored ones than V8 coal rolling polluters. Yes, or perhaps regulate these tanks that are a disaster for human life in all the years past 2150 (i.e., a time people born in the next twenty years will live to experience)... I mean, I can't just bring a gigantic 500 kilo suitcase on an airplane. There's costs associated to the airplane and other passengers, and thus doing this is priced such that nobody does this for fun or mere convenience, but rather only very rarely out of necessity. In fact, only on the rare occasion when the costs are worth paying because the value is equal or higher than the price. There's rules & conditions to using certain services and infrastructure like an airplane. Roads aren't any different, we just happen to accept rules & conditions that are ridiculously imbalanced, aren't pricing in the costs, and are disastrous on a whole range of categories: from climate change, to environmental pollution, to human health and safety, congestion and geopolitical issues around oil dependence.

lesuorac 4y ago
Personally know a few people who drives trucks solely because they have wider seats so they fit comfortably in the vehicle.
- pawsforthought 4y ago
  Are these people obese? I don’t judge. It’s sad really, the way corporate interests have so profoundly shaped the fabric of North American cities towards car dependence, and hijacked our proclivity for calorific foods to the point of widespread overconsumption.
  - matwood 4y ago
    I'm a taller guy with wide shoulders. Not obese at all. Most cars are uncomfortable to me because the bucket seats aren't wide enough. I own an 2007 Tundra and it's the most comfortable vehicle I've driven. It's also the smallest truck that can tow my boat. I don't think corporate interest shaped my desire for an old truck and even older boat, but who knows.
    - pawsforthought 4y ago
      In that case, I beg your pardon. Although, I’m curious where the desire for a truck and a boat comes from. I know when I bought my car it was the sense of freedom it granted me that appealed, and some vague sense that cars are what “real” adults own. Now I look at it as a tool for our collective self-annihilation. I would sell it, but then someone else would presumably actually use it. So instead, it sits there in the drive.
      - freshpots 4y ago
        "Although, I’m curious where the desire for a truck and a boat comes from." is this a serious question or a comment for you to grandstand on your perceived superiority and 'green cred'? "I would sell it, but then someone else would presumably actually use it. So instead, it sits there in the drive." It sounds like it could be, but seriously? a) who talks to people like this and b) would actually do something that silly, spend money to keep something to grandstand on the fact that you are saving the earth by owning something to prevent others from using it. Surely you could do something else with your time and money to further your goals and 'values' that would be far more productive. Such a strange mentality.
        pawsforthought 4y ago
        Not grandstanding, given that you’re all strangers and this is a pseudonymous account. In truth, I stopped working and gas prices are real high. That was the initial grounds for the car to sit idle. Then I got to thinking whether I should keep the thing or not — whether I actually need it. I happen to live in a place with extremely good public transport, so there’s that. And the question was meant in good faith. With time on my hands, I’ve been scrutinizing my own life choices up to this point, and it’s honestly hard to discern what influenced them. I’m genuinely curious about people’s motivations. I can surely understand the desire to relax on the water :)
      - matwood 4y ago
        I grew up around the ocean and boats. The water relaxes me. I don’t get to fish as much as I used to, but I’m a big catch and release person.
  - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
    I sat in the back of a model 3 last week and my feet didn’t even fit straight under the drivers seat. I had to twist them both to the side for an Uber ride. I’m not small but not excessively large either. Sedans just don’t move groups of adults around very comfortably
steveBK123 4y ago
Very few people are buying this exact monstrosity at $100K price point. I am mostly trying to drive home a point I think a lot of perfectionists miss.. A lot of people drive gas vehicles. A lot of people drive big trucks. The more form factors that EVs come in, the more gas vehicle drivers can be converted to EVs, which is a net win. I am not sure we are going to magically regulate and legislate away everything al at once in one Great Leap Forward of banning ICE, mandating smaller vehicles, changing land use and road design all in one go. I am simply putting forward the opinion that every EV Hummer sold to a former gas Hummer buyer, is a net good. Every F150 Lightning/EV Silverado/Rivian sold to a former F150/Silverado V8 buyer is good. Every Tesla Model 3 sold to a former Camry/Accord buyer is good. Every VW ID4 sold to a former CRV/RAV4 buyer is good. Every Chevy Bolt sold to a former Honda Fit/Chevy Sonic buyer is good. Etc etc etc. Look at the list of top vehicles sold in America. Most of them don't have EV versions available or affordable today. The more we can convert the merrier. I don't think you are going to convert a lot of Chevy Suburban buyers into a Polestar 2, or BMW X5 buyer into a Tesla Model Y, or a Toyota Highlander into a Chevy Bolt. You could get some of them into a BMW iX or Mercedes EQS SUV or Rivian R1S, etc. Some vehicle bloat is also crash safety regulatory driven as you see how much crumple zone growth cars have experienced if you compare say a BMW 3 series from 1990/2000/2010/2020.

lesuorac 4y ago

Personally know a few people who drives trucks solely because they have wider seats so they fit comfortably in the vehicle.

pawsforthought 4y ago
Are these people obese? I don’t judge. It’s sad really, the way corporate interests have so profoundly shaped the fabric of North American cities towards car dependence, and hijacked our proclivity for calorific foods to the point of widespread overconsumption.
- matwood 4y ago
  I'm a taller guy with wide shoulders. Not obese at all. Most cars are uncomfortable to me because the bucket seats aren't wide enough. I own an 2007 Tundra and it's the most comfortable vehicle I've driven. It's also the smallest truck that can tow my boat. I don't think corporate interest shaped my desire for an old truck and even older boat, but who knows.
  - pawsforthought 4y ago
    In that case, I beg your pardon. Although, I’m curious where the desire for a truck and a boat comes from. I know when I bought my car it was the sense of freedom it granted me that appealed, and some vague sense that cars are what “real” adults own. Now I look at it as a tool for our collective self-annihilation. I would sell it, but then someone else would presumably actually use it. So instead, it sits there in the drive.
    - freshpots 4y ago
      "Although, I’m curious where the desire for a truck and a boat comes from." is this a serious question or a comment for you to grandstand on your perceived superiority and 'green cred'? "I would sell it, but then someone else would presumably actually use it. So instead, it sits there in the drive." It sounds like it could be, but seriously? a) who talks to people like this and b) would actually do something that silly, spend money to keep something to grandstand on the fact that you are saving the earth by owning something to prevent others from using it. Surely you could do something else with your time and money to further your goals and 'values' that would be far more productive. Such a strange mentality.
      - pawsforthought 4y ago
        Not grandstanding, given that you’re all strangers and this is a pseudonymous account. In truth, I stopped working and gas prices are real high. That was the initial grounds for the car to sit idle. Then I got to thinking whether I should keep the thing or not — whether I actually need it. I happen to live in a place with extremely good public transport, so there’s that. And the question was meant in good faith. With time on my hands, I’ve been scrutinizing my own life choices up to this point, and it’s honestly hard to discern what influenced them. I’m genuinely curious about people’s motivations. I can surely understand the desire to relax on the water :)
    - matwood 4y ago
      I grew up around the ocean and boats. The water relaxes me. I don’t get to fish as much as I used to, but I’m a big catch and release person.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  I sat in the back of a model 3 last week and my feet didn’t even fit straight under the drivers seat. I had to twist them both to the side for an Uber ride. I’m not small but not excessively large either. Sedans just don’t move groups of adults around very comfortably

steveBK123 4y ago

Very few people are buying this exact monstrosity at $100K price point. I am mostly trying to drive home a point I think a lot of perfectionists miss.. A lot of people drive gas vehicles. A lot of people drive big trucks. The more form factors that EVs come in, the more gas vehicle drivers can be converted to EVs, which is a net win. I am not sure we are going to magically regulate and legislate away everything al at once in one Great Leap Forward of banning ICE, mandating smaller vehicles, changing land use and road design all in one go. I am simply putting forward the opinion that every EV Hummer sold to a former gas Hummer buyer, is a net good. Every F150 Lightning/EV Silverado/Rivian sold to a former F150/Silverado V8 buyer is good. Every Tesla Model 3 sold to a former Camry/Accord buyer is good. Every VW ID4 sold to a former CRV/RAV4 buyer is good. Every Chevy Bolt sold to a former Honda Fit/Chevy Sonic buyer is good. Etc etc etc. Look at the list of top vehicles sold in America. Most of them don't have EV versions available or affordable today. The more we can convert the merrier. I don't think you are going to convert a lot of Chevy Suburban buyers into a Polestar 2, or BMW X5 buyer into a Tesla Model Y, or a Toyota Highlander into a Chevy Bolt. You could get some of them into a BMW iX or Mercedes EQS SUV or Rivian R1S, etc. Some vehicle bloat is also crash safety regulatory driven as you see how much crumple zone growth cars have experienced if you compare say a BMW 3 series from 1990/2000/2010/2020.