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Seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lowest total comp was in excess of $200k/year. If you can’t have 6 months in cash sitting in a high yield savings acco

Seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lowest total comp was in excess of $200k/year. If you can’t have 6 months in cash sitting in a high yield savings account on that, there’s no amount of severance that will help you.

lumost 4y ago
Is it surprising that highly compensated employees also value security and other benefits?
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  Then the writing was on the wall for months, but actually years
onion2k 4y ago
Someone who earned 150k cash and 50k stock might be able to save, but they'd probably just keep their stock as their "emergency fund". Twitter are blocking them selling that stock. Effectively Twitter are laying people off and putting a freeze on their savings account. I think it's reasonable to have a little sympathy for people in that situation.
- baskethead 4y ago
  Once they leave the company they are free to sell the stock. They are not beholden to a stock blackout anymore.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    That isn't how it works unfortunately. If the shares vest during the blackout period they're only released to the employee, or former employee, once the blackout ends. The employees can't sell these until the blackout is lifted. Currently there is no end date set.
    - rconti 4y ago
      So this would only be an issue if they had no savings and had turned+burned all of their RSUs each pay period? (or, to be more charitable, just hit their 1 year cliff).
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        I think it's an issue if they had RSUs accumulated over N years and had not moved them to their brokerage account.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      I would think someone would be happy to lend you the number of shares you have blacked out for a large fee, with a contract you release that to the lender afterwards. Something like "we lend you 75% face of your blackout shares now, in return we get all your blackout shares when they're released." Edit: Per below comment, don't do this :)
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        Most of these anti-insider trading policies prevent all of the obvious "one clever tricks" by prohibiting entering into options contracts, lending, borrowing, shorting, executing futures transactions, etc. If you could find someone to lend you cash (based on the totality of your financial situation and personal credit), that's fine. It's not fine to borrow someone else's shares and short them during a blackout.
        thrown321 4y ago
        Regular folks are not insiders. You can certainly pledge collateral for a loan.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        I don’t recall what the terms were for TWTR but I do know my current employer prohibits using these shares as collateral for a loan, because you may default and be forced to sell them in the blackout period.
- throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
  If this merger wasn't going on twitter stock would be down XX% and so would their "emergency fund". Pretty sure i heard on a podcast that twitter has historically mirrored Meta stock so that's roughly a 50% drop. edit: over the past 6 months. so the duration of this process
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Equity isn’t an emergency fund.
  - hughesjj 4y ago
    Isn't and Shouldn't are different things. Also, new hires exist. Not everyone has had time to actually accumulate wealth from their compensation. Not everyone was taught financial literacy before being dumped into a high stress job. Not everyone is in good health. I think sympathy and compassion are fine ideals to hold for any of our working class cohort.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      I think treating our fellow humans like humans is more valuable than assuming they aren't capable of basic finance. Put another way, people will behave as you treat them. Treat them like they are fools who can't do finances and they will behave that way. Expect them to do basic financial behavior and they will. We literally make financial literacy courses free, online, without any need to even sign up. They will teach you what a bank is all the way up to 401k basics.
      - solardev 4y ago
        As someone who is financially illiterate, but doesn't have the time or knowhow to separate the good ones from all the spam out there... can you recommend any good courses?
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        MoneySmart - the official government course that covers the basics: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/consumers/money-smart/teach-money-smart/money-smart-for-adults.html https://www.fdic.gov/resources/consumers/money-smart/teach-m... It's intended to be instructor led but all the resources are available on that page. It is not an overwhelmingly thrilling course but it will get you through the material. The PersonalFinance Wiki for the /r/PersonalFinance subreddit is actually very nice and covers a lot of common situations: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics Investopedia maintains an excellent and well written dictionary on financial terms, with a mix of articles. I use this website heavily: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-term-dictionary-4769738 https://www.investopedia.com/financial-term-dictionary-47697... They have a personal wealth section here: https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance-4427760 https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance-4427760 and a good place to start is: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/09/financial-responsibility.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/09/financial-respon... If you want a software aid, YNAB is pretty good and is based on a solid set of principles. https://www.youneedabudget.com/the-four-rules/ https://www.youneedabudget.com/the-four-rules/ Obviously lots of other options exist to manage your money and YNAB is not the only option, but it's a good one. If a resource suggests any kind of particular stock picks, crypto or other "investments", it's bad. It exists to sell you a product.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jonas21 4y ago
  This sounds like the standard blackout period that public companies have every quarter to prevent insider trading. If so, it'll be lifted a few days after TWTR reports Q2 earnings later this month.
  - aatharuv 4y ago
    Things might be different because of Elon Musk's announced acquisition attempt of Twitter.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    It's been in place for 38 days so far.
- aatharuv 4y ago
  Your brick and mortar and online savings accounts are your savings account up to the maximum insurable amount. Your company stock is an investment that is part of your compensation. Your retirement account has (mostly) investments, at least in the US. Your brokerage account has investments investments. Any investment advisor will tell you that all investments have risk. There's an upside, and there's a downside to every stock. Anyone who remembers the Dot-com bust will remember that.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
The median home value in SF is ~$1.5 million. A typical mortgage on a home like that is ~$4-5k per month. So you're assuming folks have $25-30k in liquid cash hanging around all the time. Not unrealistic but certainly not everyone working at tech companies there has that kinda cash. And that's before you factor in other costs like property taxes, insurance, etc. that you'll need to cover too.
- mc32 4y ago
  In the rust belt when a factory closes or when people lose their farms, they move to where it makes economic sense. But these (ex-Twitter emps) are some of the most mobile people on Earth! It is sad when someone anyone loses their source of income -on the other hand these are among the most capable of landing on their feet.
- stocknoob 4y ago
  Do you think it’s a good idea for someone in a well-paying job not to have 3-6 months of expenses saved? Nobody is forcing them to live in SF, especially not Twitter.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  You know what you call someone with 1.5 million worth of assets? A millionaire. They will live, even if they have to move to "flyover country".
  - etchalon 4y ago
    If they have a mortgage, they don't have 1.5M in assets. They have 1.5M in debt.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      They would've put at least 150k down wouldn't they? This also assumes they just moved in. If you have a 1.5 million dollar home in SF today you likely bought it for less than that at some point in the past. These people have net worths that would allow them to buy a nice house, almost anywhere else on the planet for cash.
throwaway9870 4y ago
While saving 6 months might be possible, I would love for you to point me to a high-yield savings account.
- albatross13 4y ago
  $GME
- anonAndOn 4y ago
  You can only deposit 10k/yr but how does 9.62% sound?[0] [0]https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_ibonds_glance.htm https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_ibonds_glance...
  - rcstank 4y ago
    To add to this for next year, you can also purchase $5k more with a tax refund, for a total of $15k per year. A basic strategy is to plan ahead and over pay with your final paycheck of the tax year by updating your W-4 to withhold more to enable a tax refund if you weren't already expecting one.
    - frumper 4y ago
      To add for those that are married and/or have kids then everyone in the family can buy 10k, a trust can buy another 10k, and if you have a small business that can buy 10k.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    That's not emergency fund material since there are big penalties for early (pre-12 months) withdrawal.
    - anonAndOn 4y ago
      If you buy 10x $1000 (or 20x $500) bonds and cash out less than the full amount over the course of a year, you'll still come out ahead of whatever interest $BANK was going to pay you for the same funds in your savings account.
commandlinefan 4y ago
falcolas 4y ago
Let's pretend some of these SF twitter employees have families. $4k in rent monthly, 4k in general living expenses (these are based off median figures available publicly) A bit over $96k in living costs. Assuming that $200k in total comp includes about 25% in stock (based off publicly reported comp packages for twitter employees), and a combined state/federal 35% tax rate... They have no spare money to save without a second income with $97,500 in take home pay.
- clpm4j 4y ago
  $4k is the going rate for a nice-ish 1 bedroom apartment in a good SF neighborhood. The people I know who have a partner and one child are typically spending $5-6k/mo if they're renting.
  - penneyd 4y ago
    That's a choice, the East Bay exists and isn't anywhere close to those numbers.
- stocknoob 4y ago
  Yes, because income tax brackets aren’t progressive (all the income is taxed at 35%, and no standard deduction). People should definitely live a lifestyle with no slack for savings. It’s <someone else’s> fault I couldn’t save anything with 3.5x the median household income.
  - thrown321 4y ago
    You should look at it the SF Bay Area affordable housing income requirements. You’d be surprised how many tech families qualify.
  - ev1 4y ago
    150k is the actual housing and urban development definition of low income in San Francisco. You practically need assistance at that point.
TinyRick 4y ago
Please show me a "high yield savings account" that comes anywhere close to the ongoing >7% inflation.
- rcstank 4y ago
  Treasury Direct Series I Bonds are yielding 9.62% right now. You can't touch the money for a year, but it's great for an emergency fund after 1 year.
edgefield 4y ago
$200K in a HCOL area with a family is middle income and you’d be hard stretched to save much if anything.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I remember reading an article (SF-Bay-based), that, if you live in Palo Alto, and make $175K, you are considered "low income," and actually have access to some benefits. I never made that much in my entire career. HCOL is pretty crazy, out there. I wish them well. I wouldn't bet on them being able to get new jobs as quickly as people think. It seems that every tech company is hemorrhaging jobs.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  $200K in a HCOL area with a family is middle income and you’d be hard stretched to save much if anything. So you live like a poor person does until you've saved up enough money to deal with emergencies. Then you can live the lifestyle you desire. It's what people have done for generations and generations. This isn't rocket science.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
If you need 6 months to get a job in this profession, something is wrong. Even the slowest companies take 2-3 months to get an offer. Maybe it takes you a month without a job to be interview ready. Honestly, the vast majority of people would be better off taking a month of work to prepare for interview full time to get a better job...
rad88 4y ago
I'm financially illiterate. Where can I find a good high yield savings account?
- mlboss 4y ago
  There is no high yield savings account in US.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    Definitely not for most of the past three years. Rates only started creeping up in the last few months and even then, “high yield” is a hilarious way to label the news rates.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  If you have money that you won't need to access for a year, I bonds currently pay close to 10%. 10K a year limit on what you can put in.
  - bitcoinmoney 4y ago
    That’s not an EF or an SA.
    - rufus_foreman 4y ago
      They said they were financially illiterate. I read that as them not even knowing what they don't know. But you do you, bitcoinmoney.
- rcstank 4y ago
  E*TRADE has one with 1.40% right now [0] with a promo [1]. [0]: https://us.etrade.com/bank/premium-savings-account https://us.etrade.com/bank/premium-savings-account [1]: https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
Willish42 4y ago
This is an asinine assumption. I doubt even 10% of recruiting employees at Twitter have a HYSA, let alone make in excess of $200k/year. As stated below [1], those affected seem to be recruitment (which lines up with the LinkedIn post's user profile saying they are in recruiting). Even ignoring this, there are thousands of situations where layoff + stock blackout can be financially devastating even for people with "well off" jobs. The entire reason it's recommended to keep a 3-6 month emergency fund is for emergencies - surprise medical costs + reduced pay on disability if you get cancer/car accident/etc. or struggling with a dip in household income from a spouse losing their job during a second-in-two-years recession. If one of those happens to you and _then_ you're laid off, you'd probably be more sympathetic. Over half the U.S. lives paycheck to paycheck. It doesn't require a ton of imagination to envision why even people living in the bay area working at Twitter might be in dire economic circumstances after a layoff and stock blackout. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-lays-off-third-of-talent-team-11657227105 https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-lays-off-third-of-talen...
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  I never said I wasn’t sympathetic. It’s bullshit that they’re getting laid off. But this isn’t the 1950s. We’re on our own.
brd529 4y ago
It was 30% of the recruiting team that was laid off today which almost certainly includes recruiting coordinators, sourcers and other entry level non technical roles. It is a challenging time to be looking for a job if you are a recruiter, so I hope these severance packages are generous.
TimPC 4y ago
Honestly if you’re paying a mortgage at current rates, 6 months income is an excessive amount to hold out. Assuming that’s $100k, you’re paying somewhere around $5600/year by not paying down your mortgage more aggressively. I have a lot of sympathy for someone who’s plan for savings was “if I get fired I can”: (1) use my severance money (2) sell my stock (3) get a loan against my home Only blackout periods blocked (2) and falling home prices blocked (3).
- marcins 4y ago
  Does the US not have Mortgage Offset Accounts? An offset account is essentially a normal transaction account tied to your mortgage, but every dollar in the account "offsets" the mortgage balance for daily interest calculations. My "emergency fund" is just in one of my offset accounts, so it's saving me on my mortgage interest.
  - lbotos 4y ago
    Sounds like a "home equity line of credit"
    - marcins 4y ago
      It’s not really the same, that sounds like “redraw” here where you put more money into the loan but you can take it out again. Offset has all the benefit (reduced interest payments), with total flexibility. You can clear out your offset accounts anytime without penalty (redraw usually attracts a fee)
  - TimPC 4y ago
    This sounds like a useful banking product but unfortunately in Canada and the US they mostly try and get us to pay the mortgage quicker and then borrow money back at a higher rate if we need to. I think this product would lead to people not using other loan products and never overpaying on their mortgage (why would you if you can offset the interest?)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
phillipcarter 4y ago
Hoo boy, where to begin with this one. You do realize that there are people who broke into tech despite coming from extremely poor backgrounds, and use most of their take-home money to support their families, right? Or students with massive student loan debts that they are currently paying down? Or even just people from median financial backgrounds but have to support their families in a high CoL area?
- moonchrome 4y ago
  That doesn't compute - if you come from a poor background your family is used to surviving with below average income - moving to a high income (>2-3x average) leaves you with enough income to save up emergency fund for 6 months. Source - came from poor background, had to support family earning 3-4x average income.
  - phillipcarter 4y ago
    Your experience is commendable, and I'm glad you've been able to break out of lower income. But this does not match what I've seen with some of my peers.
- kova12 4y ago
  So... I'm not sure what you are implying here. Twitter doesn't need these employees, but should keep them on payroll out of pity ?
leetrout 4y ago
What "high yield savings accounts"?? I dont know of any over 2%
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Those are high yield relative to most savings accounts at the big banks.
kurupt213 4y ago
The cost of a modest lifestyle in SF would strain a Twitter salary
abeppu 4y ago
You and a bunch of others in the thread are starting from the presumption that these people were very well compensated. But we don't have to make _only_ assumptions, you can look up some perhaps stale and perhaps biased self-reported numbers. The most convenient of these to access for recruiters at twitter (who seem to be the ones impacted) guess a median compensation of 137K, with around 94k of that as base. I think that base is just about at median income for SF for a single earner (though of course they could live elsewhere). Other people in this thread are talking about what I understand to be hypothetical engineers with 400k compensation, and it sounds like that doesn't describe this situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Twitter-Recruiter-Salaries-E100569_D_KO8,17.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Twitter-Recruiter-Salaries-... https://sfmohcd.org/sites/default/files/Documents/MOH/BMR%20Ownership/2022%20AMI-IncomeLimits.pdf https://sfmohcd.org/sites/default/files/Documents/MOH/BMR%20...
- thrown321 4y ago
  h1binfo will capture prevailing wages.
  - abeppu 4y ago
    In the same spirit of "we can actually look at this stuff", I have to point out that: - I think in general _recruiters_ are not on H1Bs. And even for jobs held by people who _are_ on H1Bs, that can be a biased data source for salaries. - And sure enough of the info for twitter H1Bs, I see no recruiters. Plenty of engineers, a bunch of data scientists, some managers and directors, but no recruiters. https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Twitter+Inc&job=&city=&year=2022 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Twitter+Inc&job=&city=&yea...
    - thrown321 4y ago
      Lots of HR roles in there which is usually where recruiters are positioned. Unless you are saying all twitter recruiters on payroll are US citizens or permanent residents. Be sure to search all years.

lumost 4y ago

Is it surprising that highly compensated employees also value security and other benefits?

yieldcrv 4y ago
Then the writing was on the wall for months, but actually years

onion2k 4y ago

Someone who earned 150k cash and 50k stock might be able to save, but they'd probably just keep their stock as their "emergency fund". Twitter are blocking them selling that stock. Effectively Twitter are laying people off and putting a freeze on their savings account. I think it's reasonable to have a little sympathy for people in that situation.

baskethead 4y ago
Once they leave the company they are free to sell the stock. They are not beholden to a stock blackout anymore.
- onion2k 4y ago
  That isn't how it works unfortunately. If the shares vest during the blackout period they're only released to the employee, or former employee, once the blackout ends. The employees can't sell these until the blackout is lifted. Currently there is no end date set.
  - rconti 4y ago
    So this would only be an issue if they had no savings and had turned+burned all of their RSUs each pay period? (or, to be more charitable, just hit their 1 year cliff).
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      I think it's an issue if they had RSUs accumulated over N years and had not moved them to their brokerage account.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I would think someone would be happy to lend you the number of shares you have blacked out for a large fee, with a contract you release that to the lender afterwards. Something like "we lend you 75% face of your blackout shares now, in return we get all your blackout shares when they're released." Edit: Per below comment, don't do this :)
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Most of these anti-insider trading policies prevent all of the obvious "one clever tricks" by prohibiting entering into options contracts, lending, borrowing, shorting, executing futures transactions, etc. If you could find someone to lend you cash (based on the totality of your financial situation and personal credit), that's fine. It's not fine to borrow someone else's shares and short them during a blackout.
      - thrown321 4y ago
        Regular folks are not insiders. You can certainly pledge collateral for a loan.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        I don’t recall what the terms were for TWTR but I do know my current employer prohibits using these shares as collateral for a loan, because you may default and be forced to sell them in the blackout period.
throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
If this merger wasn't going on twitter stock would be down XX% and so would their "emergency fund". Pretty sure i heard on a podcast that twitter has historically mirrored Meta stock so that's roughly a 50% drop. edit: over the past 6 months. so the duration of this process
throwaway5959 4y ago
Equity isn’t an emergency fund.
- hughesjj 4y ago
  Isn't and Shouldn't are different things. Also, new hires exist. Not everyone has had time to actually accumulate wealth from their compensation. Not everyone was taught financial literacy before being dumped into a high stress job. Not everyone is in good health. I think sympathy and compassion are fine ideals to hold for any of our working class cohort.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    I think treating our fellow humans like humans is more valuable than assuming they aren't capable of basic finance. Put another way, people will behave as you treat them. Treat them like they are fools who can't do finances and they will behave that way. Expect them to do basic financial behavior and they will. We literally make financial literacy courses free, online, without any need to even sign up. They will teach you what a bank is all the way up to 401k basics.
    - solardev 4y ago
      As someone who is financially illiterate, but doesn't have the time or knowhow to separate the good ones from all the spam out there... can you recommend any good courses?
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        MoneySmart - the official government course that covers the basics: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/consumers/money-smart/teach-money-smart/money-smart-for-adults.html https://www.fdic.gov/resources/consumers/money-smart/teach-m... It's intended to be instructor led but all the resources are available on that page. It is not an overwhelmingly thrilling course but it will get you through the material. The PersonalFinance Wiki for the /r/PersonalFinance subreddit is actually very nice and covers a lot of common situations: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics Investopedia maintains an excellent and well written dictionary on financial terms, with a mix of articles. I use this website heavily: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-term-dictionary-4769738 https://www.investopedia.com/financial-term-dictionary-47697... They have a personal wealth section here: https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance-4427760 https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance-4427760 and a good place to start is: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/09/financial-responsibility.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/09/financial-respon... If you want a software aid, YNAB is pretty good and is based on a solid set of principles. https://www.youneedabudget.com/the-four-rules/ https://www.youneedabudget.com/the-four-rules/ Obviously lots of other options exist to manage your money and YNAB is not the only option, but it's a good one. If a resource suggests any kind of particular stock picks, crypto or other "investments", it's bad. It exists to sell you a product.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jonas21 4y ago
This sounds like the standard blackout period that public companies have every quarter to prevent insider trading. If so, it'll be lifted a few days after TWTR reports Q2 earnings later this month.
- aatharuv 4y ago
  Things might be different because of Elon Musk's announced acquisition attempt of Twitter.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  It's been in place for 38 days so far.
aatharuv 4y ago
Your brick and mortar and online savings accounts are your savings account up to the maximum insurable amount. Your company stock is an investment that is part of your compensation. Your retirement account has (mostly) investments, at least in the US. Your brokerage account has investments investments. Any investment advisor will tell you that all investments have risk. There's an upside, and there's a downside to every stock. Anyone who remembers the Dot-com bust will remember that.

qbasic_forever 4y ago

The median home value in SF is ~$1.5 million. A typical mortgage on a home like that is ~$4-5k per month. So you're assuming folks have $25-30k in liquid cash hanging around all the time. Not unrealistic but certainly not everyone working at tech companies there has that kinda cash. And that's before you factor in other costs like property taxes, insurance, etc. that you'll need to cover too.

mc32 4y ago
In the rust belt when a factory closes or when people lose their farms, they move to where it makes economic sense. But these (ex-Twitter emps) are some of the most mobile people on Earth! It is sad when someone anyone loses their source of income -on the other hand these are among the most capable of landing on their feet.
stocknoob 4y ago
Do you think it’s a good idea for someone in a well-paying job not to have 3-6 months of expenses saved? Nobody is forcing them to live in SF, especially not Twitter.
willcipriano 4y ago
You know what you call someone with 1.5 million worth of assets? A millionaire. They will live, even if they have to move to "flyover country".
- etchalon 4y ago
  If they have a mortgage, they don't have 1.5M in assets. They have 1.5M in debt.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    They would've put at least 150k down wouldn't they? This also assumes they just moved in. If you have a 1.5 million dollar home in SF today you likely bought it for less than that at some point in the past. These people have net worths that would allow them to buy a nice house, almost anywhere else on the planet for cash.

throwaway9870 4y ago

While saving 6 months might be possible, I would love for you to point me to a high-yield savings account.

albatross13 4y ago
$GME
anonAndOn 4y ago
You can only deposit 10k/yr but how does 9.62% sound?[0] [0]https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_ibonds_glance.htm https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_ibonds_glance...
- rcstank 4y ago
  To add to this for next year, you can also purchase $5k more with a tax refund, for a total of $15k per year. A basic strategy is to plan ahead and over pay with your final paycheck of the tax year by updating your W-4 to withhold more to enable a tax refund if you weren't already expecting one.
  - frumper 4y ago
    To add for those that are married and/or have kids then everyone in the family can buy 10k, a trust can buy another 10k, and if you have a small business that can buy 10k.
- SilasX 4y ago
  That's not emergency fund material since there are big penalties for early (pre-12 months) withdrawal.
  - anonAndOn 4y ago
    If you buy 10x $1000 (or 20x $500) bonds and cash out less than the full amount over the course of a year, you'll still come out ahead of whatever interest $BANK was going to pay you for the same funds in your savings account.

commandlinefan 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago

Let's pretend some of these SF twitter employees have families. $4k in rent monthly, 4k in general living expenses (these are based off median figures available publicly) A bit over $96k in living costs. Assuming that $200k in total comp includes about 25% in stock (based off publicly reported comp packages for twitter employees), and a combined state/federal 35% tax rate... They have no spare money to save without a second income with $97,500 in take home pay.

clpm4j 4y ago
$4k is the going rate for a nice-ish 1 bedroom apartment in a good SF neighborhood. The people I know who have a partner and one child are typically spending $5-6k/mo if they're renting.
- penneyd 4y ago
  That's a choice, the East Bay exists and isn't anywhere close to those numbers.
stocknoob 4y ago
Yes, because income tax brackets aren’t progressive (all the income is taxed at 35%, and no standard deduction). People should definitely live a lifestyle with no slack for savings. It’s <someone else’s> fault I couldn’t save anything with 3.5x the median household income.
- thrown321 4y ago
  You should look at it the SF Bay Area affordable housing income requirements. You’d be surprised how many tech families qualify.
- ev1 4y ago
  150k is the actual housing and urban development definition of low income in San Francisco. You practically need assistance at that point.

TinyRick 4y ago

Please show me a "high yield savings account" that comes anywhere close to the ongoing >7% inflation.

rcstank 4y ago
Treasury Direct Series I Bonds are yielding 9.62% right now. You can't touch the money for a year, but it's great for an emergency fund after 1 year.

edgefield 4y ago

$200K in a HCOL area with a family is middle income and you’d be hard stretched to save much if anything.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I remember reading an article (SF-Bay-based), that, if you live in Palo Alto, and make $175K, you are considered "low income," and actually have access to some benefits. I never made that much in my entire career. HCOL is pretty crazy, out there. I wish them well. I wouldn't bet on them being able to get new jobs as quickly as people think. It seems that every tech company is hemorrhaging jobs.
reaperducer 4y ago
$200K in a HCOL area with a family is middle income and you’d be hard stretched to save much if anything. So you live like a poor person does until you've saved up enough money to deal with emergencies. Then you can live the lifestyle you desire. It's what people have done for generations and generations. This isn't rocket science.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

If you need 6 months to get a job in this profession, something is wrong. Even the slowest companies take 2-3 months to get an offer. Maybe it takes you a month without a job to be interview ready. Honestly, the vast majority of people would be better off taking a month of work to prepare for interview full time to get a better job...

rad88 4y ago

I'm financially illiterate. Where can I find a good high yield savings account?

mlboss 4y ago
There is no high yield savings account in US.
- SilasX 4y ago
  Definitely not for most of the past three years. Rates only started creeping up in the last few months and even then, “high yield” is a hilarious way to label the news rates.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
If you have money that you won't need to access for a year, I bonds currently pay close to 10%. 10K a year limit on what you can put in.
- bitcoinmoney 4y ago
  That’s not an EF or an SA.
  - rufus_foreman 4y ago
    They said they were financially illiterate. I read that as them not even knowing what they don't know. But you do you, bitcoinmoney.
rcstank 4y ago
E*TRADE has one with 1.40% right now [0] with a promo [1]. [0]: https://us.etrade.com/bank/premium-savings-account https://us.etrade.com/bank/premium-savings-account [1]: https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo

Willish42 4y ago

This is an asinine assumption. I doubt even 10% of recruiting employees at Twitter have a HYSA, let alone make in excess of $200k/year. As stated below [1], those affected seem to be recruitment (which lines up with the LinkedIn post's user profile saying they are in recruiting). Even ignoring this, there are thousands of situations where layoff + stock blackout can be financially devastating even for people with "well off" jobs. The entire reason it's recommended to keep a 3-6 month emergency fund is for emergencies - surprise medical costs + reduced pay on disability if you get cancer/car accident/etc. or struggling with a dip in household income from a spouse losing their job during a second-in-two-years recession. If one of those happens to you and _then_ you're laid off, you'd probably be more sympathetic. Over half the U.S. lives paycheck to paycheck. It doesn't require a ton of imagination to envision why even people living in the bay area working at Twitter might be in dire economic circumstances after a layoff and stock blackout. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-lays-off-third-of-talent-team-11657227105 https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-lays-off-third-of-talen...

throwaway5959 4y ago
I never said I wasn’t sympathetic. It’s bullshit that they’re getting laid off. But this isn’t the 1950s. We’re on our own.

brd529 4y ago

It was 30% of the recruiting team that was laid off today which almost certainly includes recruiting coordinators, sourcers and other entry level non technical roles. It is a challenging time to be looking for a job if you are a recruiter, so I hope these severance packages are generous.

TimPC 4y ago

Honestly if you’re paying a mortgage at current rates, 6 months income is an excessive amount to hold out. Assuming that’s $100k, you’re paying somewhere around $5600/year by not paying down your mortgage more aggressively. I have a lot of sympathy for someone who’s plan for savings was “if I get fired I can”: (1) use my severance money (2) sell my stock (3) get a loan against my home Only blackout periods blocked (2) and falling home prices blocked (3).

marcins 4y ago
Does the US not have Mortgage Offset Accounts? An offset account is essentially a normal transaction account tied to your mortgage, but every dollar in the account "offsets" the mortgage balance for daily interest calculations. My "emergency fund" is just in one of my offset accounts, so it's saving me on my mortgage interest.
- lbotos 4y ago
  Sounds like a "home equity line of credit"
  - marcins 4y ago
    It’s not really the same, that sounds like “redraw” here where you put more money into the loan but you can take it out again. Offset has all the benefit (reduced interest payments), with total flexibility. You can clear out your offset accounts anytime without penalty (redraw usually attracts a fee)
- TimPC 4y ago
  This sounds like a useful banking product but unfortunately in Canada and the US they mostly try and get us to pay the mortgage quicker and then borrow money back at a higher rate if we need to. I think this product would lead to people not using other loan products and never overpaying on their mortgage (why would you if you can offset the interest?)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

phillipcarter 4y ago

Hoo boy, where to begin with this one. You do realize that there are people who broke into tech despite coming from extremely poor backgrounds, and use most of their take-home money to support their families, right? Or students with massive student loan debts that they are currently paying down? Or even just people from median financial backgrounds but have to support their families in a high CoL area?

moonchrome 4y ago
That doesn't compute - if you come from a poor background your family is used to surviving with below average income - moving to a high income (>2-3x average) leaves you with enough income to save up emergency fund for 6 months. Source - came from poor background, had to support family earning 3-4x average income.
- phillipcarter 4y ago
  Your experience is commendable, and I'm glad you've been able to break out of lower income. But this does not match what I've seen with some of my peers.
kova12 4y ago
So... I'm not sure what you are implying here. Twitter doesn't need these employees, but should keep them on payroll out of pity ?

leetrout 4y ago

What "high yield savings accounts"?? I dont know of any over 2%

throwaway5959 4y ago
Those are high yield relative to most savings accounts at the big banks.

kurupt213 4y ago

The cost of a modest lifestyle in SF would strain a Twitter salary

abeppu 4y ago

You and a bunch of others in the thread are starting from the presumption that these people were very well compensated. But we don't have to make _only_ assumptions, you can look up some perhaps stale and perhaps biased self-reported numbers. The most convenient of these to access for recruiters at twitter (who seem to be the ones impacted) guess a median compensation of 137K, with around 94k of that as base. I think that base is just about at median income for SF for a single earner (though of course they could live elsewhere). Other people in this thread are talking about what I understand to be hypothetical engineers with 400k compensation, and it sounds like that doesn't describe this situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Twitter-Recruiter-Salaries-E100569_D_KO8,17.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Twitter-Recruiter-Salaries-... https://sfmohcd.org/sites/default/files/Documents/MOH/BMR%20Ownership/2022%20AMI-IncomeLimits.pdf https://sfmohcd.org/sites/default/files/Documents/MOH/BMR%20...

thrown321 4y ago
h1binfo will capture prevailing wages.
- abeppu 4y ago
  In the same spirit of "we can actually look at this stuff", I have to point out that: - I think in general _recruiters_ are not on H1Bs. And even for jobs held by people who _are_ on H1Bs, that can be a biased data source for salaries. - And sure enough of the info for twitter H1Bs, I see no recruiters. Plenty of engineers, a bunch of data scientists, some managers and directors, but no recruiters. https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Twitter+Inc&job=&city=&year=2022 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Twitter+Inc&job=&city=&yea...
  - thrown321 4y ago
    Lots of HR roles in there which is usually where recruiters are positioned. Unless you are saying all twitter recruiters on payroll are US citizens or permanent residents. Be sure to search all years.