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FBI Child ID App
- worksonmine 4y agoJanie and Johnny Doe don't feel very appropriate as examples in this context.
- celticninja 4y agowhy does the inner cycnic in my think this is just to get some facial recognition data
- bklyn11201 4y agoI remember being fingerprinted in elementary school. Is this still common practice in USA?
- h2odragon 4y agoYes, AFAIK. It's still "voluntary" in that a child can refuse to do it if they're willing to raise enough stink and make a scene. Of course, one could paint their fingers with nail polish on that day, too...
- Silica6149 4y agoDo the schools have to get the parent's permission somehow? This can't seem like a situation where the child has to make a commotion in order to not consent.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- h2odragon 4y agoI believe it's probably covered in the mass of stuff you sign at the beginning of the school year.
- striking 4y agoI don't remember anything like that happening to me. I hope that's not common.
- drannex 4y agoVery, very common.
- micromacrofoot 4y agoOur entire school district did it for decades.
- okwubodu 4y agoVery common. I suspect they slowed down post-2020. https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=elementary%20(fingerprint%20OR%20fingerprinting)&src=typed_query&f=top https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=elementary%20(fingerprin...
- giancarlostoro 4y agoI had no idea you could do querying for twitter like that...
- okwubodu 4y agoYep, it has almost the same feature set as the dev API. You can get really specific without knowing what exactly you’re searching for.
- giancarlostoro 4y agoDo you always have to put it in parenthesis to make it know you're trying to do an advanced query?
- Miner49er 4y agoI don't think it ever was?
- commandlinefan 4y agoThey took ours when I was in third or fourth grade (so early 80's). They took us on a field trip to a police station and everybody lined up to have their fingerprints taken - I don't know if they actually kept them or did anything with them, though.
- CompuHacker 4y agoIt may be regional. Not sure how their marketing worked. See "Ident-A-Kid" (https://identakid.com/ https://identakid.com/)
- Silica6149 4y agoWhat? Did you ever find out what the fingerprints were used for? This is like taking a DNA sample from child when they're born nowadays, it seems harmless now, but we can already see companies using this kind of data maliciously.
- micromacrofoot 4y agoIn the US it was very common. My kids did it at school in the 90s. The point was that if your child goes missing, you have their fingerprints available so they can be used in investigations. In our case, the fingerprints were given to us to take home in case they were ever needed. At the time I didn't think to ask if the police kept a record for themselves, but I doubt it (just because local PD wasn't very organized).
- jeezzbo 4y agowhere did you go to school?
- micromacrofoot 4y agoNew England.
- giancarlostoro 4y agoI went to school in the 2000's when I moved to Florida, and I don't remember this, maybe I was too old, I went to school in Puerto Rico prior to this.
- 13of40 4y agoI still have my card from the early 80s, in semi rural Oregon. The way I remember it (with a caveat of me being six) was it was the only copy. I don't think my parents would have done it if the government was keeping one.
- navjack27 4y agoNever did that in NJ in the 90s
- sph 4y agoIt's an excellent long term plan. Children today are adults tomorrow.
- Silica6149 4y agoThat's what I was thinking -- what incentive does the FBI have to develop this?
- bostonsre 4y agoI know it seems like a long shot, but could they potentially be trying to do good and help people?
- Silica6149 4y agoThe US doesn't have a good track record in that regard, even towards its own people.
- bostonsre 4y agoYou are really saying the fbi does more bad than good?
- mminer237 4y agoTo prevent child crimes? That's a big mission of the FBI. See also ECAP: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/ecap https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/ecap
- macksd 4y agoSome department head got patted on the back, and a bunch of "analysts" burned 10 times what it should have taken to put this together. They're all getting salaries, good retirement benefits, and the satisfying feeling of having ended child exploitation (or at least telling people that).
- Pakdef 4y ago
- eckza 4y agoNice try, FBI.
- h2odragon 4y ago> Please read your mobile provider’s terms of service for information about the security of applications stored on your device. Is this weasel words? Apple already has some terms about being able to scan things locally before "potential upload", no?
- Silica6149 4y agoInteresting... the FBI could ask or already have a backdoor provided by Apple.
- namelessoracle 4y agoIt makes me wonder if downloading this app gives the FBI a ready made backdoor into your iPhone. (not sure if that's even possible with the iOS infrastructure)
- b112 4y agoApple scans apps, code, as does Google. But what if an Apple employee works for the FBI? Large firms are known to have moles in them, both from competitors, and from government.
- smoldesu 4y agoWhat if just one employee works for the FBI? We don't need to guess about that sort of stuff, supposedly Apple has complied with PRISM for nearly a decade now. I'd bet there's a lot more than just one US intelligence officer working at Apple.
- jaywalk 4y agoApple would have to be complicit. And at that point, why tie it to an app that almost nobody will download? Just build it into iOS/iCloud and call it a day.
- N-Krause 4y agoInitially I thought that it would be satire, then I recognized the domain. I have a weird feeling about this, but can't put a finger on it.
- eddieroger 4y agoThere's no way of saying it without sounding sarcastic that yes, this feels like a scam, if not just a bad idea. The fact that they have to come out and say, "no, we're not storing pictures of your kids" doesn't help. The idea of the app is sound, and one would hope you could trust the Federal Government with such information (like they don't have it already), but the iOS6 era screenshots and verbiage feel like a real scam.
- giancarlostoro 4y agoI think this might be abandonware.
- Silica6149 4y agoTheir news site looks like abandonware.
- andymockli 4y agoFrom page source: <meta name="DC.date.created" content="2018-01-24T18:18:24+00:00">
- Silica6149 4y agoI agree the design is definitely outdated. It's also hilarious that it's exactly the kind of look I would've expected from an app released by the FBI.
- mminer237 4y agoIt would be pretty easy to do a packet inspection and see if they're telling the truth about not transmitting the photos.
- egorfine 4y agoTroll level: FBI.
- nly 4y agoWhat's the point in this app? Surely most mothers/fathers have pictures of their kids on their phone these days anyway
- stonemetal12 4y agoAfter the July 4 mass shooting a 2 year old was found wondering the scene unattended. He was safely returned to relatives. Sure I have pictures of my kids but am I alive to display them? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62047223 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62047223
- giancarlostoro 4y agoA lot of people have social media, or send photos to their family. My wife and myself send photos of our baby to close relatives across the country all the time. I know every situation is different though. It's an unmaintained app is another issue.
- ceejayoz 4y agoDoesn't that demonstrate the app isn't needed?
- ct0 4y agoSecurity theater
- bad416f1f5a2 4y agoWho is going to unlock your phone to open the app when you are dead?
- kuramitropolis 4y agoFace ID
- ceejayoz 4y ago
- ren_engineer 4y agowhen's the FBI going to start charging Epstein's clients? I'll use their app when they start arresting those people instead of hiding their identities
- pettycashstash2 4y agoWhile i understand the skepticism, at least they are trying to streamline a process. a quick search reveals the startling statistic: Every 40 seconds, a child goes missing or is abducted in the United States. Approximately 840,000 children are reported missing each year. having access to rapid id/photo. Minutes are precious. I'm no expert but + for fbi, minus for the cynics. Just my 2 cents
- ceejayoz 4y agoThat stat isn't as startling as it seems when you dig in; most of those are custody disputes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/most-kidnapped-children-are-taken-by-a-parent-that-doesnt-mean-theyre-safe/2017/07/21/8340cefe-6bc9-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/most-kidnapped-childr... > But contrary to the dominant narrative, nearly all child abductions are perpetrated by family members. Stranger abductions — certainly alarming and tragic — actually occur with “lightning-strike rarity,” as a report in the journal Criminal Justice Studies put it, in contrast to the more than 200,000 parental abductions committed each year that meet the criminal criteria and are not merely delayed visitations or misunderstandings. And the 840k number massively overstates actual active cases; reports can be solved in a matter of minutes/hours, like a lost kid at an amusement park. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-us-missing/fact-check-tweet-overstates-number-of-children-who-went-missing-in-the-united-states-in-2020-idUSL1N2SY199 https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-us-missing/fact-ch... > Therefore, of the 365,348 missing children (between the age of 0 and 17) reports recorded in 2020, only 30,396 – or about 8% – were still active cases at the end of the year. (Good luck explaining that to a QAnoner, though.)
- can16358p 4y agoIt says: We're sorry... The request has been blocked.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- palencharizard 4y agojudging by the photo I'm guessing this will be available for the iPhone 5
- mtmail 4y agoVersion 1 got released June 2011, so it supported iPhone 4.
- tyingq 4y agoThere's a funny rendering problem with the pdf brochure where their assurance that it's not collecting information is split up and pasted in the wrong places. Making the document start with this sentence: "collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app". https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/child-id-app-brochure.pdf https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/child-id-app-brochure.pd...
- jeezzbo 4y agoFraudulent bureaucracies leave fossil trails.. and 80 million supporters to harvest.
- Silica6149 4y ago"An important note: The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app." Thanks for answering the question we all had, FBI.
- bayesian_horse 4y agoYou should have that question no matter the author of the app.
- Silica6149 4y agoYup. It's just that they went out of their way to answer it... Almost like they're worried people won't download the app if they didn't say it upfront.
- logicalmonster 4y agoSurely, the FBI would never tell a lie.
- namelessoracle 4y ago"The FBI" is not collecting is the key weasel word here.
- theden 4y ago2.4/5 on Apple's App store... The UI needs a lot of work going by the screenshots, it doesn't look appealing and there's some obvious contrast issues
- beeskneecaps 4y agoOr just take photos of your child in advance and call 911 if they go missing.
- alsetmusic 4y agoThere's a television ad that stands out in my memory from when I was a kid (80s). The camera pans across patrons at a diner and the voiceover is about how a kidnapped child was recovered as the camera stops on a young girl (~8yo). The child is described, but the child the camera landed on has different features (hair dyed, cut, whatever). The explanation for how she was identified is that her fingerprints were on file. The message? Get your children fingerprinted! In adulthood, I've often thought back to that ludicrous ad. No child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul play is already suspected. The likelihood that the child would fall into police custody and get checked is already slim; fingerprints aren't going to help until that happens. We don't have campaigns to fingerprint children as a proactive precaution today (of which I'm aware). Clearly, that wasn't a major breakthrough in reuniting kidnapped children with their parents that endured. I'm very cynical, but I've always thought that was a campaign to gather biometrics from the population using fear as a motivator. I don't necessarily think this is that, but I can't help wondering the perverse incentives of the FBI as I'm reminded of the ad.
- Silica6149 4y agoIf it was a ad, was a company involved? Sending biometrics to any company should always make someone think twice.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 4y ago> No child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul play is already suspected. A simple way around it is to have the kid fingerprinted and only release the information if the kid needs to be tracked/located.
- GavinMcG 4y agoI think the comment is pointing out that if your child is kidnapped and raised elsewhere, there will not be a reason to fingerprint them then for comparison unless there's already a reason to think they may have been kidnapped. That is, it might help on the back end, but the comment is suggesting that mass fingerprinting is not likely to move the needle much.
- giantg2 4y agoYou can't remember this info or write it down? The normal photos on your phone can't be sent to authorities? Seems like an app to fix a nonexistent problem.
- Covzire 4y agoCynically, it seems like a way to normalize an orwellian social credit system in the west where eventually everyone will have something similar on their phones, like China is doing. "You already keep an app with photos, this just adds a barcode... "
- howmayiannoyyou 4y agoLow grade corruption ...and here's why: The FBI is understaffed, misdirected & underfunded for its real mission, which I would argue must be fighting public corruption, organized crime and counter-espionage. Any objective analysis would conclude the Bureau has been politicized and its resources have been directed at operations, investigations and training that does not fulfill its core mission. The bad PR and mistrust the FBI has earned in recent years is the public product of what I'm describing, and the solution is not mobile apps of marginal utility made to make the Bureau look good. No, the solution is arrests of corrupt politicians, crime bosses & spies. Its not just the FBI suffering from feel/look good boondoggles. The Air Force struggles with hypersonics but excels at new uniform design. The DOT is a leader in equity & diversity, but has failed to upgrade & regulate rail infrastructure & procedures that make derailments a regular occurrence. Tax revenues have been their highest in decades, possibly longer. We deserve better.
- tyleo 4y agoI think you are reading a lot into the development of an app. For anything the government does it seems like folks are ready to pop out and say, “the resources would be better spent on X.” Maybe true but I’d argue doing slightly wrong things is better than listening to the orchestra of naysayers and doing nothing.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoI know it goes against majority of what people think on the subject, but sometimes doing nothing is the absolute best thing to do. Doing something badly at best can keep things as is; not to mention the worst case scenarios.
- Silica6149 4y agoWhy does the FBI have to develop an app, though? Shouldn't they focus on what they're good at and able to do, like investigating crimes?
- ejb999 4y agocouldn't agree more - the things the FBI choses to spend time and money on are mind boggling; most egregious that comes to mind was all the wasted time and resources tracking down and recovering Tom Brady's jersey in Mexico - I don't care how much it was worth, Tom Brady or the Patriots each have hundreds of millions of dollars available to them if they wanted to track it down with their own money.
- namelessoracle 4y agoIt says a lot about the FBI that most people's initial reaction is "whats the trick here?". BOTH sides of the political aisle too.
- Silica6149 4y agoI think a lot of people are put off by the fact that the FBI took the time to make this instead of doing more important duties. The app seems to have good intentions, but its execution needs work, so there's not much benefit.
- Tao3300 4y agoIt almost has to be a summer intern project.
- fuj 4y ago
- r3trohack3r 4y ago> The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app. All data resides solely on your mobile device unless you need to send it to authorities. If true, this sounds thoughtfully designed.
- aceazzameen 4y agoMaybe they should open source it for third parties to verify it then.
- Silica6149 4y agoThat's a good point, shouldn't the FBI's apps be open source?
- egberts1 4y agoUnless the app software needs to be secured ... for national security reason; read that last part again.
- r3trohack3r 4y ago> All data resides solely on your mobile device unless you need to send it to authorities. Network chatter can be viewed without source code access. If what they’re saying is true, this app should not make network requests unless initiated by the user.
- aceazzameen 4y agoThis is a good point. Still, apps generally get updated frequently. So they could change it at any time, which is why it would be nice if others could audit it at any time.
- Dma54rhs 4y agoWhat's the point if you can't verify what they upload to play store / app store anyway? They can publish as code anything but that doesn't mean you run it.
- idontknowmyacc 4y agoIt's just me or their logo is cheesy as floor.
- SN76477 4y agoNews media has driven fear and fear will drive authoritarianism.
- excalibur 4y agoScully: Why would the aliens ONLY abduct people who installed the FBI app on their phones? Mulder: They must have a mole inside the Bureau! Skinner: If you go down this road I can't protect you. Smoking man: smokes
- navjack27 4y agoLol
- photochemsyn 4y agoClearly the optimal solution is RFID subdermal microchipping for all children, isn't it? Technology exists for boosted RFID (basically a tiny battery and solar PV linked to the RFID tag) which should work under the skin fairly well. Then install scanners at all public venues and schools, and link to the NSA database out in Utah, so that everyone can be safely location-tracked at all times. Removing the chip would of course be a felony. Why stop there? Facial recognition, retina scan, DNA marker databases... a personalized AI minder for each troublesome human being (oh, that's your Alphabet/Meta tracker & recommendation algorithm, isn't it)? This of course is all for the safety of the children and the FBI would never dream of using it to spy on citizens for political reasons, or implement a Chinese style social-credit system, or to ensure you're watching your daily dose of Orwellian positivity content.
- buscoquadnary 4y agoExactly finally someone gets it, and for all you people who are opposed you're probably just a drug dealer or a terrorist, after all only drug dealers and terrorists have something to hide, every good citizen should want something like that. I mean what's more important you're imaginary freedom, or being able to bring porch pirates to justice?
- QuarterReptile 4y ago>I mean what's more important you're imaginary freedom, or being able to bring porch pirates to justice? I think you meant to say," have the option to bring porch pirates to justice, but we don't have the time and there's liability involved, so just buy a new one and get better locks and build your own delivery service so that packages show up exactly when you're available for receiving."
- azinman2 4y agoThis kind of attitude takes all the oxygen out of the room and makes it impossible to actually do good.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
- pavel_lishin 4y ago> The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app. So what's the advantage of using this vs. the photos you probably already have of your child, and a notes app for recording height and weight?
- abirch 4y agoMy only guess is that when your kid is missing, you may not be thinking clearly. It's why we say nine-one-one instead of nine-eleven. This app probably prompts you to take a mugshot of your kid so it'd be easier for the police to recognize.
- f38zf5vdt 4y agoFBI seems to be making the best out of their recent partnership with Clearview AI. https://iapp.org/news/a/fbi-agrees-to-licensing-contract-with-clearview-ai/ https://iapp.org/news/a/fbi-agrees-to-licensing-contract-wit...
- zanethomas 4y ago"The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app." Anyone in the market for a bridge?
- Bender 4y agoI am not a fan of this idea. My preference would be that parents could use an open source application and store-bought kit to gather/store datapoints on their children fingerprint kit, iris scan, DNA gathering and if/when something bad happens the parents can share the data with the appropriate law enforcement agencies that are actually involved in the case. There would also need to be data retention/destruction laws on the books that mandates when the copy of the data must be destroyed by law enforcement and serious consequences for a law enforcement agency should they side step the data retention requirements. Anything short of this feels like a catch-all extension of ID.me and hospitals now gathering DNA from babies without the parents knowledge or consent. Children can not consent to their data being captured in this manor. This should be a role of parents and they should be securely storing this data in my very less than humble opinion. One copy on-site and one copy in a bank safety deposit box and/or one copy stored off-site with a relative, ideally someone legally designated as an emergency legal guardian.
- whoomp12342 4y agois this a joke?
- lawgimenez 4y agoCan’t wait to decompile their Android apk tomorrow. I’m curious how FBI codes Android.
- jwozn 4y agoI would be interested to see if you have any intriguing findings!
- lawgimenez 4y agoI just hope my house won’t get raided before I publish my findings.
- system16 4y agoGoing by the version history, this app has been around for over a decade. You'd think in that time they would have changed the exceptionally hideous app icon.
- Managor 4y agoThe words FBI and Child so close together make me a bit squeamish.
- theseobosscom 4y agoWTF, literally!
- ComputerCat 4y agoInteresting idea. Not sure how well it will be adopted by the public though...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- yellowapple 4y ago> An important note: The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app. All data resides solely on your mobile device unless you need to send it to authorities. I'd believe that about as far as I can throw it.
- dieselgate 4y agoThis is a good idea. Im not a parent but volunteer as a Big Brother for a 10 y/o. Keeping important docs/covid vax card/photos etc in one place for easy retrieval is a win. Hopefully it works well..