6 ms·

Desantis signs bill req. FL students, professors to register political views

32 points by stevenalowe 4y ago

phendrenad2 4y ago
Title is false - students and professors are not required to do anything.
- D-Coder 4y ago
  The article points to https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/state-university-faculty-students-to-be-surveyed-on-beliefs/ https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/st..., which says: In his continued push against the “indoctrination” of students, Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday signed legislation that will require public universities and colleges to survey students, faculty and staff about their beliefs and viewpoints to support “intellectual diversity.”
  - Overtonwindow 4y ago
    “Survey” sounds more like a study, but it’s not required to answer? That’s a big difference. Consider the “gay the census“ movement in 2020, or asking about immigration. The state can ask for a questionnaire and they can ask for your answers, but requiring those answers, and attaching employment to those answers, is it entirely different matter.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    Text from the law in the linked article: >The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/P... It's very similar to the language used Department of Education surveys about the racial and gender makeup of schools, I suspect intentionally. In that case I haven't seen those described as "requiring students to register their race".
    - Clubber 4y ago
      It's midterm (political not academic) season.
- mdanger007 4y ago
  Florida is giving a "rate my professor" survey to students with political agendas to give the board of education grounds to fire professors. " The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom " I have been in college longer than I care to admit and I have never seen a person needing shielding for "intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity". However I have seen people who clearly didn't read the text come in and declare 1+1 is 3 and thoroughly believe they failed because the prof hated them.
quantum_state 4y ago
People should challenge this law in court and shot it down. One’s political view is none of the business of a state government, period.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Passing obviously illegal laws to be struck down by courts is how the right has been driving their angry voter base for decades. This is just part of the show, and having the court strike it down is a necessary part of the strategy.
  - timapplesauce 4y ago
    - dang 4y ago
      We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. That's not allowed, regardless of which politics/ideology you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - jaldhar 4y ago
    Now do “common-sense gun control”. Politicians of all stripes do this because it works.
- burrows 4y ago
  The state (thru taxes) is funding the universities, right? Speaking for myself, if I was funding a university I would do things to encourage intellectual diversity. I’m more sympathetic to the more general view that education is not the business of state governments, period.
  - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted_account 4y ago
2021? https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/ https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/
hereme888 4y ago
Bad, misinformed article. Nonsense. Remove this from HN.
pvaldes 4y ago
Some people sound more and more desperate each day for provoking people to riot. The more angry, the better. Why do they do this? and why now? This is the good question. I would assume (I'm just speculating) that the goal is to make the Capitol assault look better by comparison. Or sell the idea that it was antifa, or galvanize their own forces again under the "them or us", "kill or be killed" etc... idea. If everybody is rioting, nobody is. At some point you can't jail everybody and a general pardon could be proposed as the only realistic solution. But is just one silly idea. Maybe to divert the focus from Russia creating mass shootings, stampedes and all kind of problems inside? Another stupid idea. A very delicate period in the US history, for sure, but if people remains smart and cold can be navigated.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  the capitol assault already looks insignificant compared to the blm riots, which seemed to be a successful implementation of "if everybody is rioting, nobody is" there certainly does seem to be some kind of effort to push the pendulum further and further in both directions
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I would assume (I'm just speculating) that the goal is to make the Capitol assault look better by comparison. Or sell the idea that it was antifa, or galvanize their own forces again under the "them or us", "kill or be killed" etc... idea. That kind of wild speculation is step 1 in "how to do conspiracy theory."
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    > That kind of wild speculation is step 1 in "how to do conspiracy theory." It seems that theory in this particular case was strong enough to became law (or we wouldn't have reached the "trial for conspiracy" phase). Time will say how it ends but, for the smaller Idus of January at least, doing time is the only future possible. Politicians are a lazy crew. If they bother to go out of their bath-masses routine to do something really unpopular, you can bet that there is a reward for doing it.
jimmygrapes 4y ago
Link to the actual bill, since any summary (including mine below) will inevitably be skewed to the point of misrepresentation: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/P... [PDF] FWIW it seems perfectly fine to me. Opposition based on assumed intent of DeSantis (or even if he explicitly states his intent) is meritless in the face of the actual text of the bill, which when read properly actually enables the very things conservatives are worried about (CRT, Marxism, etc), so long as it isn't the only thing taught. It also clarifies how lecture recordings can be used and explicitly prevents such recordings from being published without the lecturer's permission. Seems reasonable. I'm sure someone will chime in and say something like "but that means flat earth and creationism and gay conversion theory and holocaust denial and [insert your favorite terrible thing] will be taught!" Maybe. Probably not, but maybe. And if they are, they will be taught alongside the oppositional stance. Surely the correct stance will win out, right? After all, the only reason flat earth or holocaust denial et al. gain any traction is because people are not properly taught the truth and are instead stuck in their own self-reinforcing bubble. And if the truth is not convincing for those people, either there's a failure in teaching or there's some other irreconcilable barrier that won't be fixed by "just don't bring it up". If you're still not convinced, consider the idea of systemic racism: how do you teach that this exists without teaching that there are in fact racists and explaining what those racists believe? You must always present the other side to some extent in order to explain why they are wrong. This bill does not require that every belief or concept be taught as true; it simply requires that the other belief or concept not be entirely omitted from discussion.
- otter-rock 4y ago
  > enables the very things conservatives are worried about (CRT, Marxism, etc), so long as it isn't the only thing taught Any subject was already allowed before. What more could be allowed? Here's a class on CRT from a few years ago. I can't see what good the bill would do here. But I can think of a lot of ways to harass people with it, or get the class cancelled out of fear of being sued or fired. https://www.law.virginia.edu/past-courses/view/119820244 https://www.law.virginia.edu/past-courses/view/119820244
nunez 4y ago
> "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed." From the man that brought you "Don't Say Gay," championed the loss of American women's rights, and tried to criminalize towns creating mask policies during peak COVID, this coming from him is as rich as chocolate mousse from Paris. This is, say, six steps away from that scene in _Handmaid's Tale_ where women walked by men who were hung for show.
- spacemanmatt 4y ago
  No kidding. DeSantis is fucking grim.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mousebender 4y ago
PolitiFact flags this claim as false: <https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/25/viral-image/new-florida-law-requires-public-universities-surve/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/25/viral-imag...> "New Florida law doesn't require university students, faculty and staff to register political views"
- stevenalowe 4y ago
  We shall see this fall; the bill does not mention anonymity and desantis’ intent was pretty clear
spacemanmatt 4y ago
Classic misdirection: "It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you'd be exposed to a lot of different ideas," DeSantis said at a press conference following the bill signing. "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed."

32 points by stevenalowe 4y ago

phendrenad2 4y ago

Title is false - students and professors are not required to do anything.

D-Coder 4y ago
The article points to https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/state-university-faculty-students-to-be-surveyed-on-beliefs/ https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/st..., which says: In his continued push against the “indoctrination” of students, Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday signed legislation that will require public universities and colleges to survey students, faculty and staff about their beliefs and viewpoints to support “intellectual diversity.”
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  “Survey” sounds more like a study, but it’s not required to answer? That’s a big difference. Consider the “gay the census“ movement in 2020, or asking about immigration. The state can ask for a questionnaire and they can ask for your answers, but requiring those answers, and attaching employment to those answers, is it entirely different matter.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Text from the law in the linked article: >The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/P... It's very similar to the language used Department of Education surveys about the racial and gender makeup of schools, I suspect intentionally. In that case I haven't seen those described as "requiring students to register their race".
  - Clubber 4y ago
    It's midterm (political not academic) season.
mdanger007 4y ago
Florida is giving a "rate my professor" survey to students with political agendas to give the board of education grounds to fire professors. " The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom " I have been in college longer than I care to admit and I have never seen a person needing shielding for "intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity". However I have seen people who clearly didn't read the text come in and declare 1+1 is 3 and thoroughly believe they failed because the prof hated them.

quantum_state 4y ago

People should challenge this law in court and shot it down. One’s political view is none of the business of a state government, period.

jeffbee 4y ago
Passing obviously illegal laws to be struck down by courts is how the right has been driving their angry voter base for decades. This is just part of the show, and having the court strike it down is a necessary part of the strategy.
- timapplesauce 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. That's not allowed, regardless of which politics/ideology you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- jaldhar 4y ago
  Now do “common-sense gun control”. Politicians of all stripes do this because it works.
burrows 4y ago
The state (thru taxes) is funding the universities, right? Speaking for myself, if I was funding a university I would do things to encourage intellectual diversity. I’m more sympathetic to the more general view that education is not the business of state governments, period.
- 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted_account 4y ago

2021? https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/ https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/

hereme888 4y ago

Bad, misinformed article. Nonsense. Remove this from HN.

pvaldes 4y ago

Some people sound more and more desperate each day for provoking people to riot. The more angry, the better. Why do they do this? and why now? This is the good question. I would assume (I'm just speculating) that the goal is to make the Capitol assault look better by comparison. Or sell the idea that it was antifa, or galvanize their own forces again under the "them or us", "kill or be killed" etc... idea. If everybody is rioting, nobody is. At some point you can't jail everybody and a general pardon could be proposed as the only realistic solution. But is just one silly idea. Maybe to divert the focus from Russia creating mass shootings, stampedes and all kind of problems inside? Another stupid idea. A very delicate period in the US history, for sure, but if people remains smart and cold can be navigated.

smegsicle 4y ago
the capitol assault already looks insignificant compared to the blm riots, which seemed to be a successful implementation of "if everybody is rioting, nobody is" there certainly does seem to be some kind of effort to push the pendulum further and further in both directions
tablespoon 4y ago
> I would assume (I'm just speculating) that the goal is to make the Capitol assault look better by comparison. Or sell the idea that it was antifa, or galvanize their own forces again under the "them or us", "kill or be killed" etc... idea. That kind of wild speculation is step 1 in "how to do conspiracy theory."
- pvaldes 4y ago
  > That kind of wild speculation is step 1 in "how to do conspiracy theory." It seems that theory in this particular case was strong enough to became law (or we wouldn't have reached the "trial for conspiracy" phase). Time will say how it ends but, for the smaller Idus of January at least, doing time is the only future possible. Politicians are a lazy crew. If they bother to go out of their bath-masses routine to do something really unpopular, you can bet that there is a reward for doing it.

jimmygrapes 4y ago

Link to the actual bill, since any summary (including mine below) will inevitably be skewed to the point of misrepresentation: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/P... [PDF] FWIW it seems perfectly fine to me. Opposition based on assumed intent of DeSantis (or even if he explicitly states his intent) is meritless in the face of the actual text of the bill, which when read properly actually enables the very things conservatives are worried about (CRT, Marxism, etc), so long as it isn't the only thing taught. It also clarifies how lecture recordings can be used and explicitly prevents such recordings from being published without the lecturer's permission. Seems reasonable. I'm sure someone will chime in and say something like "but that means flat earth and creationism and gay conversion theory and holocaust denial and [insert your favorite terrible thing] will be taught!" Maybe. Probably not, but maybe. And if they are, they will be taught alongside the oppositional stance. Surely the correct stance will win out, right? After all, the only reason flat earth or holocaust denial et al. gain any traction is because people are not properly taught the truth and are instead stuck in their own self-reinforcing bubble. And if the truth is not convincing for those people, either there's a failure in teaching or there's some other irreconcilable barrier that won't be fixed by "just don't bring it up". If you're still not convinced, consider the idea of systemic racism: how do you teach that this exists without teaching that there are in fact racists and explaining what those racists believe? You must always present the other side to some extent in order to explain why they are wrong. This bill does not require that every belief or concept be taught as true; it simply requires that the other belief or concept not be entirely omitted from discussion.

otter-rock 4y ago
> enables the very things conservatives are worried about (CRT, Marxism, etc), so long as it isn't the only thing taught Any subject was already allowed before. What more could be allowed? Here's a class on CRT from a few years ago. I can't see what good the bill would do here. But I can think of a lot of ways to harass people with it, or get the class cancelled out of fear of being sued or fired. https://www.law.virginia.edu/past-courses/view/119820244 https://www.law.virginia.edu/past-courses/view/119820244

nunez 4y ago

> "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed." From the man that brought you "Don't Say Gay," championed the loss of American women's rights, and tried to criminalize towns creating mask policies during peak COVID, this coming from him is as rich as chocolate mousse from Paris. This is, say, six steps away from that scene in _Handmaid's Tale_ where women walked by men who were hung for show.

spacemanmatt 4y ago
No kidding. DeSantis is fucking grim.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mousebender 4y ago

PolitiFact flags this claim as false: <https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/25/viral-image/new-florida-law-requires-public-universities-surve/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/25/viral-imag...> "New Florida law doesn't require university students, faculty and staff to register political views"

stevenalowe 4y ago
We shall see this fall; the bill does not mention anonymity and desantis’ intent was pretty clear

spacemanmatt 4y ago

Classic misdirection: "It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you'd be exposed to a lot of different ideas," DeSantis said at a press conference following the bill signing. "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed."