6 ms·

It is just me, or is this an open call for a proletariat revolution against the bourgeois? Any successful "plunge past the first-class passengers" will not be

It is just me, or is this an open call for a proletariat revolution against the bourgeois? Any successful "plunge past the first-class passengers" will not be a peaceful event.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
knodi123 4y ago
damn, if we only had a functional democracy.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Even if you do: that democracy will have to somehow work in concert with all of the other governments towards a single goal. We have - historically speaking - never done this. Ever. So I think the lesson will be a hard one and after that whatever remains will maybe be able to do a better job the next time around. If there is a next time around. I don't take that for granted at all.
- prometheus76 4y ago
  I'm sure that tyranny of the majority will lead us to enlightened places...
  - yxwvut 4y ago
    Thank god we have the rich to care for us instead, they know what's best.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      Pseudo capitalistic central planning? I sometimes wonder if communism is just capitalism taken too far. E.g. capitalism devolved into monopolies and communism just skips straight to having the state be the ultimate monopoly.
odessacubbage 4y ago
in essence, any proposed swerve will do far less to hurt the first class passengers than it will to hurt those in coach and it will outright kill those who are hanging onto the bumper. whether those harms are moral, unavoidable or 'necessary' is largely open to interpretation.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago
  Depressingly, harming the "lower class passengers" is a feature, not a bug. It helps deter them from taking action.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  This is spot on. In fact, the number of people displaced by natural disasters (in large part driven by climate change) is already rising rapidly, but it doesn't really make the news because of where they live and what color their skin is. 20+ million people in 2020: https://www.internal-displacement.org/global-report/grid2021/ https://www.internal-displacement.org/global-report/grid2021...
SequoiaHope 4y ago
I mean Doctorow writes books about communism so I think it is fair to say the answer is yes.
- andybak 4y ago
  What?
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    https://reason.com/2017/07/12/cory-doctorows-fully-automated/ https://reason.com/2017/07/12/cory-doctorows-fully-automated...
    - andybak 4y ago
      It's got "Communist" in the title. For all I know it might not even be about communism in anything other than a metaphorical sense. I'd certainly assume that from the context. Yet someone it feels like you're insinuating that he writes books advocating a communist revolution. That feels dishonest. Maybe it's not but with throwaway comments like this, my hackles rise. Would I be correct in assuming you've not read the book, either?
      - dwiel 4y ago
        It's not even a book by that title, it's an interview of him where the interviewer included the word communism in the title of the interview. I've read the books referred to in the interview and they definitely aren't about communism.
        SequoiaHope 4y ago
        You read the book Walkaway? Where the first chapter is called "Communist Party", where the protagonists of the book take over a furniture factory to produce free furniture for their friends, then go off to live in a world where machines provide for everyone and no one is required to work for their survival? Are you familiar with the Marxist concept of "worker ownership of the means of production?" That is what they are alluding to both in the first chapter and in the rest of the book. The people in the first chapter regularly refer to themselves as communists. That is why they call their party a communist party. And they have taken over a factory to produce free goods for their friends. That is a very communist thing to do! Perhaps you have confused anarchist communism, which is described in his books, with the authoritarian communism common in the 20th century, which is not described in his books. But he writes extensively about worlds where the means of production are held in common ownership to produce enough for everyone, so no one has to work if they don't want to. These have always been the ideals of communism. EDIT: Here is Doctorow saying on his own website that the people in the book Walkaway are communists. https://craphound.com/podcast/2019/12/02/party-discipline-a-walkaway-story-part-1/ https://craphound.com/podcast/2019/12/02/party-discipline-a-... "Party Discipline is a story set in the world of Walkaway, about two high-school seniors who conspire to throw a “Communist Party” at a sheet metal factory whose owners are shutting down and stealing their workers’ final paychecks. These parties are both literally parties — music, dancing, intoxicants — and “Communist” in that the partygoers take over the means of production and start them up, giving away the products they create to the attendees. Walkaway opens with a Communist Party and I wanted to dig into what might go into pulling one of those off."
splatcollision 4y ago
"Vote harder" always works, no?
mattnewton 4y ago
> Others are just ideologically committed to traveling in a straight line. The swerve is morally bankrupt. It’s communism. I don’t think he would disagree that many will see it that way.
groby_b 4y ago
Sounds like the most viable plan to me.

It is just me, or is this an open call for a proletariat revolution against the bourgeois? Any successful "plunge past the first-class passengers" will not be a peaceful event.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

knodi123 4y ago

damn, if we only had a functional democracy.

jacquesm 4y ago
Even if you do: that democracy will have to somehow work in concert with all of the other governments towards a single goal. We have - historically speaking - never done this. Ever. So I think the lesson will be a hard one and after that whatever remains will maybe be able to do a better job the next time around. If there is a next time around. I don't take that for granted at all.
prometheus76 4y ago
I'm sure that tyranny of the majority will lead us to enlightened places...
- yxwvut 4y ago
  Thank god we have the rich to care for us instead, they know what's best.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    Pseudo capitalistic central planning? I sometimes wonder if communism is just capitalism taken too far. E.g. capitalism devolved into monopolies and communism just skips straight to having the state be the ultimate monopoly.

odessacubbage 4y ago

in essence, any proposed swerve will do far less to hurt the first class passengers than it will to hurt those in coach and it will outright kill those who are hanging onto the bumper. whether those harms are moral, unavoidable or 'necessary' is largely open to interpretation.

EvanAnderson 4y ago
Depressingly, harming the "lower class passengers" is a feature, not a bug. It helps deter them from taking action.
jacquesm 4y ago
This is spot on. In fact, the number of people displaced by natural disasters (in large part driven by climate change) is already rising rapidly, but it doesn't really make the news because of where they live and what color their skin is. 20+ million people in 2020: https://www.internal-displacement.org/global-report/grid2021/ https://www.internal-displacement.org/global-report/grid2021...

SequoiaHope 4y ago

I mean Doctorow writes books about communism so I think it is fair to say the answer is yes.

andybak 4y ago
What?
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  https://reason.com/2017/07/12/cory-doctorows-fully-automated/ https://reason.com/2017/07/12/cory-doctorows-fully-automated...
  - andybak 4y ago
    It's got "Communist" in the title. For all I know it might not even be about communism in anything other than a metaphorical sense. I'd certainly assume that from the context. Yet someone it feels like you're insinuating that he writes books advocating a communist revolution. That feels dishonest. Maybe it's not but with throwaway comments like this, my hackles rise. Would I be correct in assuming you've not read the book, either?
    - dwiel 4y ago
      It's not even a book by that title, it's an interview of him where the interviewer included the word communism in the title of the interview. I've read the books referred to in the interview and they definitely aren't about communism.
      - SequoiaHope 4y ago
        You read the book Walkaway? Where the first chapter is called "Communist Party", where the protagonists of the book take over a furniture factory to produce free furniture for their friends, then go off to live in a world where machines provide for everyone and no one is required to work for their survival? Are you familiar with the Marxist concept of "worker ownership of the means of production?" That is what they are alluding to both in the first chapter and in the rest of the book. The people in the first chapter regularly refer to themselves as communists. That is why they call their party a communist party. And they have taken over a factory to produce free goods for their friends. That is a very communist thing to do! Perhaps you have confused anarchist communism, which is described in his books, with the authoritarian communism common in the 20th century, which is not described in his books. But he writes extensively about worlds where the means of production are held in common ownership to produce enough for everyone, so no one has to work if they don't want to. These have always been the ideals of communism. EDIT: Here is Doctorow saying on his own website that the people in the book Walkaway are communists. https://craphound.com/podcast/2019/12/02/party-discipline-a-walkaway-story-part-1/ https://craphound.com/podcast/2019/12/02/party-discipline-a-... "Party Discipline is a story set in the world of Walkaway, about two high-school seniors who conspire to throw a “Communist Party” at a sheet metal factory whose owners are shutting down and stealing their workers’ final paychecks. These parties are both literally parties — music, dancing, intoxicants — and “Communist” in that the partygoers take over the means of production and start them up, giving away the products they create to the attendees. Walkaway opens with a Communist Party and I wanted to dig into what might go into pulling one of those off."

splatcollision 4y ago

"Vote harder" always works, no?

mattnewton 4y ago

> Others are just ideologically committed to traveling in a straight line. The swerve is morally bankrupt. It’s communism. I don’t think he would disagree that many will see it that way.

groby_b 4y ago

Sounds like the most viable plan to me.