3 ms·

>> Cooling is more energy efficient than heating. How is that? First thing ofcourse is everything we do as human, including our body is generating heat, for

>> Cooling is more energy efficient than heating. How is that? First thing ofcourse is everything we do as human, including our body is generating heat, for my cooling my home is FAR FAR FAR more expensive (thus i would assume more energy intensive) than heating my home. >>Houses in places like AZ are implicitly less wasteful (no lawns, better insulated, etc). This is largely government zoning or HOA's here, people outside of AZ could allow for less lawns as well. This would require a cultural shift. I would love to replace my lawn with something I did not have to mow, but my local government prevents that >- People like it Some people like, some people (like me) like cold climates, or places with seasonal changes. I would never in a million years live in the south west US, I prefer places that snow.

Finnucane 4y ago
> but my local government prevents that They mandate you have a grass lawn?
- tristor 4y ago
  Yes, unfortunately, this is very common. I'm in South Texas (for a few more weeks before I move) and my municipal ordinance requires homes to have a grass lawn and for it to be maintained. No HOA here (main reason I bought this house). I pay a lawn service company monthly to manage it for me, because it's a huge pain otherwise due to the climate.
  - legitster 4y ago
    Are you sure? Most places I have lived, the wording of the local ordinance says "IF you have a grass lawn, it must be maintained". I don't think many places would have issue with a nice xeriscaped native garden or even a cinder lawn.
    - tristor 4y ago
      Depends on the place, for sure. Where I currently reside, the town is named after a particular species of tree, and it was required when all the homes were built that each property had one of this species of tree on the property. You are obligated to both maintain that tree (or replace it if it dies) and to have a lawn, this is actually the ordinance here. I agree it's kind of ridiculous, but I also live in an area known for its onerous HOAs, and these ordinances are basically just a subset of that writ large, but without the worst of it. I'll still take this over living in an HOA.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Even in cities that do not call out grass, combination of ordinances make grass the easiest and most economical, one could not replace it with say concrete. These are set in a variety of zoning, building, and maintenance ordinances For your "native garden" depending on your meaning could be banned because the city classifies all "unmaintained plants" to be weeds in violation of the ordinance. Various zoning and building codes outline ground coverings for run off, and flood control purposes. Then you have separate regulations about shrubs and trees, All of these combined make grass the easiest way to comply with the government even if the government does to implicitly require grass
      - legitster 4y ago
        Okay, but there's a difference in saying something is banned vs saying it is expensive/too much work.
        phpisthebest 4y ago
        I disgree, at some point you have a functional ban even if you have not come right out and banned a thing If you put enough roadblocks, hurtles, etc in front of something it becomes a functional ban Case in point see the 2 most controversial subjects of today Abortion and Gun Rights, with each political side attempting functional bans with out actually "banning" the thing out right
D13Fd 4y ago
I think what the other poster meant is that “cooling in a warm client is less energy intensive than heating in a cool climate” which is generally true. This is partially because the temperature deltas are smaller. If you are aiming for 70 inside and you have 95 outside, you are fighting a 25-degree delta. But if you want 70 inside and have 25 outside, that’s a 45-degree delta the system has to overcome.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Delta is one thing, but you're also fighting solar gain when trying to cool. Sure you can mitigate, but when heating, the sun is working in your favour. Winds are another variable.
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    That’s true, although solar heating in warm climates can be mitigated in some ways (roof color, attic structure/ventilation) and solar heating in cold climates is tough with a layer of snow on the roof. Bottom line is that there are many variables but a big delta tends to be energy intensive to overcome.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      > cold climates is tough with a layer of snow on the roof Snow is actually helpful by insulating. The sun is closer to the horizon over winter, so it's your vertical windows doing the heating anyway. An obvious issue is how much sunlight you get over winter. Not just in hours, but in N. Europe, you might have continuous cloudcover and not see the sun for weeks at a time.
      - D13Fd 4y ago
        Snow is not helpful for solar heating, as I said, and if your roof has a big r-value to begin with the snow is not adding a ton of insulation.
        4y ago
legitster 4y ago
Houses in AZ use less energy on average than other states: https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/ https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/sta... And in aggregate, cities in warm climates are more sustainable than in cold: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/1/014050 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/1/014... >> This would require a cultural shift. Agreed. Or people can move to places like AZ or NV where lawns are the exception. >> I would never in a million years live in the south west US Agreed. I like the PNW too much to move. But my argument here is just letting people do what they want (move to warm deserts) is a net benefit to society.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >Houses in AZ use less energy on average than other states hmm, looks like energy expenditures are the same, they note that energy costs are higher in AZ So the question would be is the reduction due to budgets, meaning given the option the people in AZ would set their AC lower, and be more comfortable if they could afford too and the high cost prevents that Or is it actually more efficient as the claim was?

Finnucane 4y ago

> but my local government prevents that They mandate you have a grass lawn?

tristor 4y ago
Yes, unfortunately, this is very common. I'm in South Texas (for a few more weeks before I move) and my municipal ordinance requires homes to have a grass lawn and for it to be maintained. No HOA here (main reason I bought this house). I pay a lawn service company monthly to manage it for me, because it's a huge pain otherwise due to the climate.
- legitster 4y ago
  Are you sure? Most places I have lived, the wording of the local ordinance says "IF you have a grass lawn, it must be maintained". I don't think many places would have issue with a nice xeriscaped native garden or even a cinder lawn.
  - tristor 4y ago
    Depends on the place, for sure. Where I currently reside, the town is named after a particular species of tree, and it was required when all the homes were built that each property had one of this species of tree on the property. You are obligated to both maintain that tree (or replace it if it dies) and to have a lawn, this is actually the ordinance here. I agree it's kind of ridiculous, but I also live in an area known for its onerous HOAs, and these ordinances are basically just a subset of that writ large, but without the worst of it. I'll still take this over living in an HOA.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Even in cities that do not call out grass, combination of ordinances make grass the easiest and most economical, one could not replace it with say concrete. These are set in a variety of zoning, building, and maintenance ordinances For your "native garden" depending on your meaning could be banned because the city classifies all "unmaintained plants" to be weeds in violation of the ordinance. Various zoning and building codes outline ground coverings for run off, and flood control purposes. Then you have separate regulations about shrubs and trees, All of these combined make grass the easiest way to comply with the government even if the government does to implicitly require grass
    - legitster 4y ago
      Okay, but there's a difference in saying something is banned vs saying it is expensive/too much work.
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        I disgree, at some point you have a functional ban even if you have not come right out and banned a thing If you put enough roadblocks, hurtles, etc in front of something it becomes a functional ban Case in point see the 2 most controversial subjects of today Abortion and Gun Rights, with each political side attempting functional bans with out actually "banning" the thing out right

D13Fd 4y ago

I think what the other poster meant is that “cooling in a warm client is less energy intensive than heating in a cool climate” which is generally true. This is partially because the temperature deltas are smaller. If you are aiming for 70 inside and you have 95 outside, you are fighting a 25-degree delta. But if you want 70 inside and have 25 outside, that’s a 45-degree delta the system has to overcome.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Delta is one thing, but you're also fighting solar gain when trying to cool. Sure you can mitigate, but when heating, the sun is working in your favour. Winds are another variable.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  That’s true, although solar heating in warm climates can be mitigated in some ways (roof color, attic structure/ventilation) and solar heating in cold climates is tough with a layer of snow on the roof. Bottom line is that there are many variables but a big delta tends to be energy intensive to overcome.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    > cold climates is tough with a layer of snow on the roof Snow is actually helpful by insulating. The sun is closer to the horizon over winter, so it's your vertical windows doing the heating anyway. An obvious issue is how much sunlight you get over winter. Not just in hours, but in N. Europe, you might have continuous cloudcover and not see the sun for weeks at a time.
    - D13Fd 4y ago
      Snow is not helpful for solar heating, as I said, and if your roof has a big r-value to begin with the snow is not adding a ton of insulation.
      - 4y ago

legitster 4y ago

Houses in AZ use less energy on average than other states: https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/state_briefs/ https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/sta... And in aggregate, cities in warm climates are more sustainable than in cold: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/1/014050 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/1/014... >> This would require a cultural shift. Agreed. Or people can move to places like AZ or NV where lawns are the exception. >> I would never in a million years live in the south west US Agreed. I like the PNW too much to move. But my argument here is just letting people do what they want (move to warm deserts) is a net benefit to society.

phpisthebest 4y ago
>Houses in AZ use less energy on average than other states hmm, looks like energy expenditures are the same, they note that energy costs are higher in AZ So the question would be is the reduction due to budgets, meaning given the option the people in AZ would set their AC lower, and be more comfortable if they could afford too and the high cost prevents that Or is it actually more efficient as the claim was?