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Right, but even with a volunteer fire department, at least there's normally water that they can use to save the neighbor houses once they arrive on-scene. If t

by bradfa 4y ago

Right, but even with a volunteer fire department, at least there's normally water that they can use to save the neighbor houses once they arrive on-scene. If there's no water then there's no way to save anything from a fire.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Right: They'll have water delivery trucks on standby contracts. The very trucks that deliver water to homes. They'll come to the scene and deploy an instant-pool for firetrucks to draw from. You could say that having homes that depend on cisterns actually helps in firefighting efforts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i090t5scQ1o&t=220s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i090t5scQ1o&t=220s
- tlavoie 4y ago
  The tenders, as those trucks are known, would be from the fire department themselves. Filling from nearby-as-possible ponds or tanks, a good-sized structure fire will still go through multiple trucks' worth of water. I volunteer with our rural, island-based fire department. The more populated part has 90% or more of the people, and is part of our coverage area. The larger part is more parks and forest, and sees regional coverage such as chopper- or truck-based crews, helicopters and so on. Each of the engine trucks carries something like 1000 gallons of water, and is kept full. So are the tenders, which can dump into the "porta-pond" as in that video. The water supply team has a list of available sources of water that they can go to to keep that water flowing, but if there is nothing nearby, the round-trip time will get longer, and firefighters will have to leave the building until there is water available. Wildfire fighting is very different, and much more focused on containing the edges of the fire by using natural fire breaks or creating new ones. (Think picks and shovels, heli buckets, and heavy equipment where available.) If there is a house or two threatened, maybe some sprinklers can be set up ahead of the fire. If the house is on fire, too bad, efforts are on what's ahead.
rightbyte 4y ago
Don't US fire trucks carry water?
- bradfa 4y ago
  Only enough for a very short amount of time, basically the water in the truck or fire engine lasts long enough for the firefighters to get connected to a hydrant and not much more.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Ah ok. I think I greatly overestimated how long those tanks last for.
- scrumbledober 4y ago
  yes but they also usually hook up to fire hydrants to have enough time to put fires out. I don't have figures but from what I remember most fire trucks only have enough water on board for the first 5-10 minutes of spraying.
Enginerrrd 4y ago
>Right, but even with a volunteer fire department, at least there's normally water that they can use to save the neighbor houses once they arrive on-scene. Lol... no. There are so many flawed assumptions here I'm not sure where to start. Basically everything you said was wrong. First, the "neighbor house" would typically be hundreds of yards away at the absolute closest. Second, the availability of water for fire fighting purposes in rural areas is commonly dubious normally. It's exceedingly rare that a residence will have any form of pressurized water like "personal hydrant" type of system. At best, they might have a 2,500 gallon polyethylene tank, or a pond they could dip into, IF the volunteer fire department has a pump and hose setup, which is itself kind of rare or slow to arrive. Third, a lot of the efforts on scene are unlikely to involve water at all. It's more like wild-land fire style where you might try to cut fire lines and stuff to try and prevent igniting surrounding areas, evacuate and render aid to affected people, etc.
- bradfa 4y ago
  That's fair, I don't know how to fight fires. But it sounds like a lot of these newer houses in the article are not the normal spread-out rural type spacing but much more like suburb size lots. The article says: “Not only are they building as dense as they can build, they’re scraping everything to the ground,” If they really are building on multi-acre lots then you're probably right. But if it's more like a suburban style where houses are on 0.25 acre lots and there's only maybe 15-20 feet between houses then I feel my concerns are legit.

by bradfa 4y ago

Scoundreller 4y ago

Right: They'll have water delivery trucks on standby contracts. The very trucks that deliver water to homes. They'll come to the scene and deploy an instant-pool for firetrucks to draw from. You could say that having homes that depend on cisterns actually helps in firefighting efforts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i090t5scQ1o&t=220s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i090t5scQ1o&t=220s

tlavoie 4y ago
The tenders, as those trucks are known, would be from the fire department themselves. Filling from nearby-as-possible ponds or tanks, a good-sized structure fire will still go through multiple trucks' worth of water. I volunteer with our rural, island-based fire department. The more populated part has 90% or more of the people, and is part of our coverage area. The larger part is more parks and forest, and sees regional coverage such as chopper- or truck-based crews, helicopters and so on. Each of the engine trucks carries something like 1000 gallons of water, and is kept full. So are the tenders, which can dump into the "porta-pond" as in that video. The water supply team has a list of available sources of water that they can go to to keep that water flowing, but if there is nothing nearby, the round-trip time will get longer, and firefighters will have to leave the building until there is water available. Wildfire fighting is very different, and much more focused on containing the edges of the fire by using natural fire breaks or creating new ones. (Think picks and shovels, heli buckets, and heavy equipment where available.) If there is a house or two threatened, maybe some sprinklers can be set up ahead of the fire. If the house is on fire, too bad, efforts are on what's ahead.

rightbyte 4y ago

Don't US fire trucks carry water?

bradfa 4y ago
Only enough for a very short amount of time, basically the water in the truck or fire engine lasts long enough for the firefighters to get connected to a hydrant and not much more.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Ah ok. I think I greatly overestimated how long those tanks last for.
scrumbledober 4y ago
yes but they also usually hook up to fire hydrants to have enough time to put fires out. I don't have figures but from what I remember most fire trucks only have enough water on board for the first 5-10 minutes of spraying.

Enginerrrd 4y ago

>Right, but even with a volunteer fire department, at least there's normally water that they can use to save the neighbor houses once they arrive on-scene. Lol... no. There are so many flawed assumptions here I'm not sure where to start. Basically everything you said was wrong. First, the "neighbor house" would typically be hundreds of yards away at the absolute closest. Second, the availability of water for fire fighting purposes in rural areas is commonly dubious normally. It's exceedingly rare that a residence will have any form of pressurized water like "personal hydrant" type of system. At best, they might have a 2,500 gallon polyethylene tank, or a pond they could dip into, IF the volunteer fire department has a pump and hose setup, which is itself kind of rare or slow to arrive. Third, a lot of the efforts on scene are unlikely to involve water at all. It's more like wild-land fire style where you might try to cut fire lines and stuff to try and prevent igniting surrounding areas, evacuate and render aid to affected people, etc.

bradfa 4y ago
That's fair, I don't know how to fight fires. But it sounds like a lot of these newer houses in the article are not the normal spread-out rural type spacing but much more like suburb size lots. The article says: “Not only are they building as dense as they can build, they’re scraping everything to the ground,” If they really are building on multi-acre lots then you're probably right. But if it's more like a suburban style where houses are on 0.25 acre lots and there's only maybe 15-20 feet between houses then I feel my concerns are legit.