4 ms·

Come on man, that was more than a decade ago with entirely different management. I'm surprised you aren't still typing Micro$oft too.

bayindirh 4y ago
I don't see any evidence that the new management is targeting anything different than the old management. Care to elaborate?
- krageon 4y ago
  People are of the opinion that if it hasn't perpetrated bad things recently, it is best to pretend it's not likely. Even if the current environment fits precisely within a known piece of the playbook.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  If Microsoft hated Linux as much as they did in the 90s, we'd know. It's cute to pretend like Modern Day MS is drafting up Halloween documents every-other-Friday, but the reality is that they don't really care that much anymore. Microsoft congratulated Valve for their progress on DXVK, a program that undermines one of Microsoft's most proprietary APIs. Microsoft expanded the capabilities of the Github free tier, even though they had no real incentive to add things like free CI/CD time or unlimited private repositories. Github as a privately-owned company monetized those features. I think anyone who's paid attention to Microsoft over the past 20 years could tell you that they're out of the game these days. Hell, if you still don't believe me, go look at their revenue share. Windows, Xbox, Office... all of that plays second-fiddle to Azure now. Without Linux, Microsoft couldn't deliver the same first-rate cloud experience as AWS. Without Linux, WSL doesn't exist on Windows. Microsoft has realized that their role in this play is to sell thick-clients and let servers do what servers do best, there's pretty much nothing I've seen in the past 10 years that would suggest ongoing hostility towards Linux users from Microsoft. Maybe that dotnet hotloading fiasco was the worst thing? As someone who wouldn't touch dotnet anyways, I don't really care how good it's Linux tooling is.
  - lloydatkinson 4y ago
    This is exactly what I meant thank you for elaborating. It’s a shame that typical “2002 Internet forum that types M$” is alive and well on HN but I guess it’s the same target audience.
    - ziml77 4y ago
      They've all grown up now though and express their hate in more than just two characters. The new expression of their hate for Microsoft is "this is the 2nd E of EEE".
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      Actually seeing Microsoft doing the same thing since 1990 doesn't inspire confidence in any of the actions they're doing. They need to try harder. Putting up logos and cute banners don't count. Also, if you had the same point of view, you could have written the same thing. BTW, I was already using Linux by 2002. I have pretty much first hand experience of what Microsoft did until today.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Microsoft is hating Linux desktop more than ever today. They've just changed tactics. They may congratulate Valve for DXVK, send a cake to Firefox for a new anniversary, but it doesn't change that they pay Canonical to make their distro work flawlessly under WSL, so they can axe new installations of Linux desktop systems by enabling Linux under Windows. Similarly, they try to make sure that VSCode is the most loved IDE/Text editor so they can axe other free and paid development environments both under Windows and Linux. Microsoft is trying to kill Linux desktop and lock it to server rooms, because the server side is a lost cause, but the desktop side is not. They just want Windows based games to work on other systems, so they can market Windows as compatible with that "other" games, and enable Linux under Windows so they can say "Hey, you don't need to install that, it works under Windows, too". Even more so, they can completely lock PC platform starting Win11 and onward and tell antitrust regulators that all the software already works under Windows, anyway. They wanted to inject Mono/C# into GNOME and Linux so they can make the whole desktop dependent on themselves, but that backfired spectacularly. So this is their new tactic. Microsoft has a DNA, and this DNA is in action with full force. They didn't change, and they won't change, ever. Oh, maybe they can extort some money by suing DXVK in the future, who knows. We're seeing all EEE cycle, again.
- aliswe 4y ago
  just a cursory analysis of the minds of Ballmer and Nadella will give you that indication.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    I just look a the collective actions of Microsoft. That's a way bigger indication of what it's trying to do. Nadella is just a person. It can't steer a behemoth of a corporation going on the same path for at least 30 years, with a DNA planted by its founder and built upon "acquiring" other people's source code and being "inspired" by others' ideas. On the other hand, I just see Nadella as a softer talking version of Ballmer. He's just acting soft, but threading the same path with same insistence and rigor of Ballmer. I don't trust Microsoft as a corporation, period. Their current ambitions and actions only reinforce the image I have in my mind which is formed by experience. This is a strong opinion, firmly held. I don't swing it around to hit people with it, but kindly show them whenever need arises. Lastly, Why is it so frowned upon to not like a company in a non-violent way and voice one's opinion?
    - aliswe 4y ago
      > Lastly, Why is it so frowned upon to not like a company in a non-violent way and voice one's opinion? Nono it's fine I guess - it's just that a companys culture forms from top down. Granted, if Nadella is just Ballmer in Nadella clohing, then this doesnt hold up, but that would also validate the argument that Ballmer was just a Gates in Ballmer clothing. The board chooses the CEO, the CEO is the top authority in the company. He sets the tone. There is no "Windows team" anymore, were going full in on Azure and Linux. Its simply a different time.
      - bayindirh 4y ago
        I think you're not mistaken with your view. I see Gates as the reference point and the pioneer: Halloween documents and all that. Strangle market. Ballmer: Double down on Windows, developers, EEE, tell them as overtly as possible. Strangle people, developers and software. Nadella: Be soft, be friendly, pin down developer ecosystem, take away what makes Linux magical and embed into Windows ecosystem, make Linux irrelevant so it's not a threat anymore. They're trying to do the same things in a different manner. Microsoft is Microsoft. They make great hardware. I pay for Office license, and buy upgrades for family computers, yet I won't lend them my sins for a second. I'm not one of these guys who hates Microsoft, because it's cool. I was using their keyboards and mice for a long time, and actively recommended them (still do, actually), but when it comes to playing nice with open source, haha, that's not existent. Let's not kid ourselves.
lofaszvanitt 4y ago
Company is an entity that hides the true faces of sneaky individuals and their shenanigans. Change the CEO, we are a new company. What a load of __ap. It's the same company, same sh__mixers, same agenda packaged in a new way.

bayindirh 4y ago

I don't see any evidence that the new management is targeting anything different than the old management. Care to elaborate?

krageon 4y ago
People are of the opinion that if it hasn't perpetrated bad things recently, it is best to pretend it's not likely. Even if the current environment fits precisely within a known piece of the playbook.
smoldesu 4y ago
If Microsoft hated Linux as much as they did in the 90s, we'd know. It's cute to pretend like Modern Day MS is drafting up Halloween documents every-other-Friday, but the reality is that they don't really care that much anymore. Microsoft congratulated Valve for their progress on DXVK, a program that undermines one of Microsoft's most proprietary APIs. Microsoft expanded the capabilities of the Github free tier, even though they had no real incentive to add things like free CI/CD time or unlimited private repositories. Github as a privately-owned company monetized those features. I think anyone who's paid attention to Microsoft over the past 20 years could tell you that they're out of the game these days. Hell, if you still don't believe me, go look at their revenue share. Windows, Xbox, Office... all of that plays second-fiddle to Azure now. Without Linux, Microsoft couldn't deliver the same first-rate cloud experience as AWS. Without Linux, WSL doesn't exist on Windows. Microsoft has realized that their role in this play is to sell thick-clients and let servers do what servers do best, there's pretty much nothing I've seen in the past 10 years that would suggest ongoing hostility towards Linux users from Microsoft. Maybe that dotnet hotloading fiasco was the worst thing? As someone who wouldn't touch dotnet anyways, I don't really care how good it's Linux tooling is.
- lloydatkinson 4y ago
  This is exactly what I meant thank you for elaborating. It’s a shame that typical “2002 Internet forum that types M$” is alive and well on HN but I guess it’s the same target audience.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    They've all grown up now though and express their hate in more than just two characters. The new expression of their hate for Microsoft is "this is the 2nd E of EEE".
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Actually seeing Microsoft doing the same thing since 1990 doesn't inspire confidence in any of the actions they're doing. They need to try harder. Putting up logos and cute banners don't count. Also, if you had the same point of view, you could have written the same thing. BTW, I was already using Linux by 2002. I have pretty much first hand experience of what Microsoft did until today.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Microsoft is hating Linux desktop more than ever today. They've just changed tactics. They may congratulate Valve for DXVK, send a cake to Firefox for a new anniversary, but it doesn't change that they pay Canonical to make their distro work flawlessly under WSL, so they can axe new installations of Linux desktop systems by enabling Linux under Windows. Similarly, they try to make sure that VSCode is the most loved IDE/Text editor so they can axe other free and paid development environments both under Windows and Linux. Microsoft is trying to kill Linux desktop and lock it to server rooms, because the server side is a lost cause, but the desktop side is not. They just want Windows based games to work on other systems, so they can market Windows as compatible with that "other" games, and enable Linux under Windows so they can say "Hey, you don't need to install that, it works under Windows, too". Even more so, they can completely lock PC platform starting Win11 and onward and tell antitrust regulators that all the software already works under Windows, anyway. They wanted to inject Mono/C# into GNOME and Linux so they can make the whole desktop dependent on themselves, but that backfired spectacularly. So this is their new tactic. Microsoft has a DNA, and this DNA is in action with full force. They didn't change, and they won't change, ever. Oh, maybe they can extort some money by suing DXVK in the future, who knows. We're seeing all EEE cycle, again.
aliswe 4y ago
just a cursory analysis of the minds of Ballmer and Nadella will give you that indication.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  I just look a the collective actions of Microsoft. That's a way bigger indication of what it's trying to do. Nadella is just a person. It can't steer a behemoth of a corporation going on the same path for at least 30 years, with a DNA planted by its founder and built upon "acquiring" other people's source code and being "inspired" by others' ideas. On the other hand, I just see Nadella as a softer talking version of Ballmer. He's just acting soft, but threading the same path with same insistence and rigor of Ballmer. I don't trust Microsoft as a corporation, period. Their current ambitions and actions only reinforce the image I have in my mind which is formed by experience. This is a strong opinion, firmly held. I don't swing it around to hit people with it, but kindly show them whenever need arises. Lastly, Why is it so frowned upon to not like a company in a non-violent way and voice one's opinion?
  - aliswe 4y ago
    > Lastly, Why is it so frowned upon to not like a company in a non-violent way and voice one's opinion? Nono it's fine I guess - it's just that a companys culture forms from top down. Granted, if Nadella is just Ballmer in Nadella clohing, then this doesnt hold up, but that would also validate the argument that Ballmer was just a Gates in Ballmer clothing. The board chooses the CEO, the CEO is the top authority in the company. He sets the tone. There is no "Windows team" anymore, were going full in on Azure and Linux. Its simply a different time.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      I think you're not mistaken with your view. I see Gates as the reference point and the pioneer: Halloween documents and all that. Strangle market. Ballmer: Double down on Windows, developers, EEE, tell them as overtly as possible. Strangle people, developers and software. Nadella: Be soft, be friendly, pin down developer ecosystem, take away what makes Linux magical and embed into Windows ecosystem, make Linux irrelevant so it's not a threat anymore. They're trying to do the same things in a different manner. Microsoft is Microsoft. They make great hardware. I pay for Office license, and buy upgrades for family computers, yet I won't lend them my sins for a second. I'm not one of these guys who hates Microsoft, because it's cool. I was using their keyboards and mice for a long time, and actively recommended them (still do, actually), but when it comes to playing nice with open source, haha, that's not existent. Let's not kid ourselves.

lofaszvanitt 4y ago

Company is an entity that hides the true faces of sneaky individuals and their shenanigans. Change the CEO, we are a new company. What a load of __ap. It's the same company, same sh__mixers, same agenda packaged in a new way.