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There also is the the mental trap of what I call "car think" which happens to me whenever I have a car readily available. Distances that were no problem walking

There also is the the mental trap of what I call "car think" which happens to me whenever I have a car readily available. Distances that were no problem walking creepingly become unimaginable as the (contestable) comfort of a readily available car gets normalized. I can only imagine that this effect gets worse when it's your own car with "sunk cost" as part of the equation. I'm always happy when I get back to "city normal". Walking is awesome.

quickthrower2 4y ago
The good thing about cities is they make parking so freaking annoying, expensive, hazardous (small parking spaces) and time consuming that walking becomes much more tolerable. Downside to walking is a weekly family shop isn't easy to carry around.
- wbl 4y ago
  The benefit of nearby stores is you shop more often.
  - nradov 4y ago
    That's not a benefit, it's a huge hassle for anyone with a family and a busy schedule.
    - princeb 4y ago
      it's the other way around for me. out in the suburbs a grocery run was around an hour, driving to the mall, navigating the ridiculously large hypermarket, packing the boot, driving back. right now i live a block down from a grocery store and a grocery run is 15 minutes tops. because grocery shopping was such a hassle in the suburbs we did it once a week and tried to buy as much as possible to avoid going back. in the city i just grab whatever is on my list walking home from the train station.
      - nradov 4y ago
        Right now I live a block down from a grocery store. It's sure a lot easier to load up everything I need once a week.
    - backpackviolet 4y ago
      Nah, it’s a benefit. You need to store less, less goes to waste because it’s easier to see everything. You can buy fresher things that spoil quickly because you’re going to eat them right away. The trick is that you pick stuff up “on your way home”, you aren’t making extra dedicated trips. Not hard to supplement with grocery deliveries these days either. When I think back to the weekly grocery shopping I did with my parents as a kid? Those huge carts full of food, having to cover the entire store, then hauling it amd packing it in the car, then all the unpacking and organizing sorting and storing some of it in the main fridge and some in the backup fridge some in the pantry … to me that seems like way more hassle than speading the work out. I have kids, tried different systems, more and smaller trips works for us. Probably it’s one of those things that everyone works out differently
      - nradov 4y ago
        Nah, it's not a benefit. Believe me, I've tried it your way. I see no value in spreading the hassle out.
        joshuamorton 4y ago
        It takes me approximately 8 minutes to go roundtrip to the closest grocery store to me. 5 minutes if I can get what I need at a bodega-y place (so no produce, but still milk and snackfood). What about that is a hassle?
        sieabahlpark 4y ago
        tragictrash 4y ago
        You need fresh produce
        joshuamorton 4y ago
        Right, fresh produce is 4 minutes away, not 2.
- overtonwhy 4y ago
  A grocery cart or two can transport a lot of weight. (not a cart from the store but a bring your own one. Some fold up for easy storage!)
- thatfrenchguy 4y ago
  I’d rather go to the nice small grocery store three times a week though (and we do in my household), it’s kind of nice.
- Ntrails 4y ago
  > hazardous (small parking spaces) Surely you mean "Unnecessarily oversized cars"
  - feet 4y ago
    Exactly, its not like they're shrinking the parking spaces
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      Well, they kind of do. Try to cram more spaces into a car park, and make the ramps and access points narrower. A car is a car, but the tolerances get shrunk. You do 6 point turns and suchlike.
ampham 4y ago
Having a car is awesome also when you need it, like going grocery shopping in the rain. But having to depend on a car with no other reasonable options really sucks.
albrewer 4y ago
Anything less than 1.5 miles is walkable in a reasonable amount of time, at least to me - that comes out to about a 30-45 minute "commute." The problem is that everything is so spread out (there's not that much to walk _to_), and walking paths are not guaranteed to all destinations within that distance (walking isn't even safe). I wish American towns and cities were built in the traditional 4-over-1 style of places like Amsterdam, so that even in densely populated areas there was room for shops and restaurants that could survive off of foot traffic. When visiting old European cities not built around automotive infrastructure, it was so easy to get 5+ miles of walking in every day because everything is so close together.

quickthrower2 4y ago

The good thing about cities is they make parking so freaking annoying, expensive, hazardous (small parking spaces) and time consuming that walking becomes much more tolerable. Downside to walking is a weekly family shop isn't easy to carry around.

wbl 4y ago
The benefit of nearby stores is you shop more often.
- nradov 4y ago
  That's not a benefit, it's a huge hassle for anyone with a family and a busy schedule.
  - princeb 4y ago
    it's the other way around for me. out in the suburbs a grocery run was around an hour, driving to the mall, navigating the ridiculously large hypermarket, packing the boot, driving back. right now i live a block down from a grocery store and a grocery run is 15 minutes tops. because grocery shopping was such a hassle in the suburbs we did it once a week and tried to buy as much as possible to avoid going back. in the city i just grab whatever is on my list walking home from the train station.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Right now I live a block down from a grocery store. It's sure a lot easier to load up everything I need once a week.
  - backpackviolet 4y ago
    Nah, it’s a benefit. You need to store less, less goes to waste because it’s easier to see everything. You can buy fresher things that spoil quickly because you’re going to eat them right away. The trick is that you pick stuff up “on your way home”, you aren’t making extra dedicated trips. Not hard to supplement with grocery deliveries these days either. When I think back to the weekly grocery shopping I did with my parents as a kid? Those huge carts full of food, having to cover the entire store, then hauling it amd packing it in the car, then all the unpacking and organizing sorting and storing some of it in the main fridge and some in the backup fridge some in the pantry … to me that seems like way more hassle than speading the work out. I have kids, tried different systems, more and smaller trips works for us. Probably it’s one of those things that everyone works out differently
    - nradov 4y ago
      Nah, it's not a benefit. Believe me, I've tried it your way. I see no value in spreading the hassle out.
      - joshuamorton 4y ago
        It takes me approximately 8 minutes to go roundtrip to the closest grocery store to me. 5 minutes if I can get what I need at a bodega-y place (so no produce, but still milk and snackfood). What about that is a hassle?
        sieabahlpark 4y ago
        tragictrash 4y ago
        You need fresh produce
        joshuamorton 4y ago
        Right, fresh produce is 4 minutes away, not 2.
overtonwhy 4y ago
A grocery cart or two can transport a lot of weight. (not a cart from the store but a bring your own one. Some fold up for easy storage!)
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
I’d rather go to the nice small grocery store three times a week though (and we do in my household), it’s kind of nice.
Ntrails 4y ago
> hazardous (small parking spaces) Surely you mean "Unnecessarily oversized cars"
- feet 4y ago
  Exactly, its not like they're shrinking the parking spaces
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Well, they kind of do. Try to cram more spaces into a car park, and make the ramps and access points narrower. A car is a car, but the tolerances get shrunk. You do 6 point turns and suchlike.

ampham 4y ago

Having a car is awesome also when you need it, like going grocery shopping in the rain. But having to depend on a car with no other reasonable options really sucks.

albrewer 4y ago

Anything less than 1.5 miles is walkable in a reasonable amount of time, at least to me - that comes out to about a 30-45 minute "commute." The problem is that everything is so spread out (there's not that much to walk _to_), and walking paths are not guaranteed to all destinations within that distance (walking isn't even safe). I wish American towns and cities were built in the traditional 4-over-1 style of places like Amsterdam, so that even in densely populated areas there was room for shops and restaurants that could survive off of foot traffic. When visiting old European cities not built around automotive infrastructure, it was so easy to get 5+ miles of walking in every day because everything is so close together.