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Vauld suspends all withdrawals, trading and deposits on the platform
- baby 4y agoWhat is Vauld though. I’ve never heard of this platform.
- JasonBlack555 4y agoMe neither ... that's probably why they are going bankrupt !
- knorker 4y agoNo. The reason is that it's the cryptocurrency industry, which existence depends on betting on black, and it's been getting red for a while now. Of course you can make money by risking everything... But it risks everything.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y agoAnd yet even the unknown platforms have a lot of users pouring money into it.
- sreekars 4y agoOne thing I liked about it is that it has no withdrawal fee. I was lucky enough to withdraw around 98% of my funds yesterday to my wallet. Thank God!
- i67vw3 4y agoIt is an indian crypto exchange (lending) platform based in Singapore but focuses on india, as I remember it. It is not as big as binance (indian version), wazirx, coindcx, zebpay but can be considered around position 7-8 in the list of indian crypto exchanges. Users mainly used it for interest earning by lending their crypto to vauld.
- Animats 4y agoSingapore went soft on debtors in 2017. Singapore now has US-style debtor in possession reorganization, like Chapter 11 in US law. So forcing Vauld into liquidation does not appear to still be an option.
- easytiger 4y agoDoesn't sound like an "exchange". How did they generate the cash interest?
- pjc50 4y agoThey lent it to other scammers, such as Three Arrows Capital.
- JimmyRuska 4y agoAll of these yield farms seem to reassure customers that everything is great, then the next week declare themselves insolvent. It seems that as soon as they pause withdrawals they know the company is done for and they have to set themselves up for bankruptcy. If it were depositor-first mindset, the damage could be spread out by limiting withdrawals but still giving some percentage of total deposit as liquidity. It seems pretty offensive that most of these companies just flip the switch to absorbing customer funds for general operations runway, lawyers and payouts for secured creditors/owners.
- raverbashing 4y agoThe funnies thing is people giving those platforms "the benefit of the doubt" days or even hours before they go up in flames "Yes, I'm sure your RandomCoin with unrealistic yields is just having a momentarly hiccup, no need to worry" /s
- rightbyte 4y agoI guess they want to give insiders the chance to pull out to 100%. But ye ... there should be a controlled collapse of these things. Immediate liquidification with depositors having priority.
- cm2187 4y agoWhich in banking is known as bail-in (regulations introduced after 2008). In the financial service industry you can't really do a chapter 11, i.e. operate while being protected from your creditors, as your business is precisely to take money from creditors (unlike a car manufacturer). That left you as only solution of either doing a bail out (3rd party, typically state, injecting capital) or going bust Lehman's way. Bail-in was introduced where the regulator has the power to declare a bank non viable, and to impose an extra-judicial restructuring over a weekend so the bank can operate normally on Monday morning. The losses in the restructuring follow a modified creditor hierarchy, which essentially follows the creditor hierarchy with some tweaks (tries to avoid restructuring deposits, complex liabilities or anything secured, and favors restructuring subordinated instruments and wholesale funding liabilities). Crypto is reinventing all the financial scandals and fuckups of the last century and re-discovering the benefit of the financial regulations it was designed to avoid.
- bertman 4y agoThe co-founder two weeks ago: >We’re here to stay and will continue to play a part in accelerating the transition to decentralized money. https://twitter.com/darshanbathija/status/1539116631829676032 https://twitter.com/darshanbathija/status/153911663182967603...
- syspec 4y agoWell they are accelerating the transition of decentralizing money, by spreading your money to all their creditors after they go bankrupt.
- spaceman_2020 4y agoHow do these people run centralized platforms and talk about decentralized money? Pretty bad for crypto in India though. They had a lot of users and were lauded as a “safe” platform. Only makes the government’s argument to regulate crypto heavily, or even make it illegal, stronger
- runeks 4y agoSuspending withdrawals should not be legal. It’s not their money, it belongs to their customers. Law should require that depositors always be the most senior creditor. And suspension of withdrawals is the deposit taker defaulting on its obligations, which allows depositors to force the company into liquidation. The proceeds of which are shared between creditors on an amount-owed basis.
- karatinversion 4y agoFunny how it goes with the entities that talk like banks but are set up as regulatory bypasses
- JimmyRuska 4y agoThey attack banks as being poor investments, and position themselves as the modern way to get better yields https://twitter.com/mashinsky/status/1430874984692555781 https://twitter.com/mashinsky/status/1430874984692555781
- hotpotamus 4y agoI used to think all these guys were brilliant predators. I've updated my thinking in that I allow for the possibility that some are dumb predators but I can't tell the difference.
- JimmyRuska 4y agoIt's a ponzi. The goal is to grow as fast as possible before a liquidity crunch makes you go insolvent. But the main goal was always to get that payday after bankruptcy steals the user funds.
- JetSpiegel 4y agohttps://twitter.com/CelsiusNetwork/status/1536169010877739009#m https://twitter.com/CelsiusNetwork/status/153616901087773900... > @CelsiusNetwork is pausing all withdrawals It's the CIIIRCLE of LIFE!
- Animats 4y agoVauld's pitch, still up at their web site: Earn Interest On Your Crypto. Earn the industry’s highest interest rates on major cryptocurrencies. Weekly Payouts. Interest is calculated daily, and paid out weekly on all your tokens. Withdraw any amount at any time while you earn interest. They were paying about 12% on USDT.
- easytiger 4y agoHow can anyone look at this statement and see anything other than a ponzi scheme?
- ourmandave 4y agoWonder how many bothered after their favorite celebrity or influencer told them to just download the app and start "investing" in ponzi coins.
- facorreia 4y agoIndeed, it reads like a textbook definition of a Ponzi scheme.
- jim90 4y agoKind of ironic a link to this blog post is on their front page: https://www.vauld.com/blog/crypto-savings-account/ https://www.vauld.com/blog/crypto-savings-account/
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rswail 4y agoWhen will people realize that "depositing" money somewhere is lending it to the people taking your "deposit". Regulated deposit taking institutions have rules on what they're allowed to do with that loaned money. Governments may insure those that loaned money, because a bank is inherently unstable, it borrows short, but lends long. So any "bank run" where all depositors (creditors) want their funds back will break the bank, because it will be unable to do the same thing for the loans that it has. None of this is new.
- chinathrow 4y ago> money I think in this case, it would be fine to call it "money" in quotes too.
- nobody9999 4y ago>So any "bank run" where all depositors (creditors) want their funds back will break the bank, because it will be unable to do the same thing for the loans that it has. cf. this informative documentary[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Wonderful_Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Wonderful_Life
- checkurprivlege 4y agoNobody could have predicted this
- thematrixturtle 4y agoThis is good for Bitcoin!
- xtracto 4y agoNot your keys, not your bitcoin.
- yashg 4y ago"Build Wealth Automatically With Crypto" says the tagline on homepage. Well...
- thematrixturtle 4y agoFrom their About page: Governments and banks can fall, or change their monetary policies, at any time - and your currency today can literally have no value tomorrow (recent examples include Indian demonetization, Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbabwe) How do you know it won't happen to your country? The irony is rich in this one.
- pjc50 4y agoI have some sympathy for the victims of those political and economic collapses, and for people in similarly unstable or unfree countries who may suffer hardship through failures of their political system. However, if you're sitting comfortably in a Western country that runs free and fair elections? This is your "only you can prevent forest fires" moment. It's part of your freedom that you have the responsibility to participate in keeping the fraudulent and incompetent out of your democracy. This includes not letting yourself get seduced by populists or youtubers with weird economic theories. And also not pretending that collapse is imminent simply because oil prices have gone up. (It's also not clear that actual loss was a big problem of Indian demonetization, just the inconvenience of the exchange process)
- lupire 4y ago> sitting comfortably in a Western country that runs free and fair elections 4% of the world population, and most of this site's users, live in the USA, where free and fair elections, along with human rights, are being turned down this year.
- throwaway858 4y ago> 4% of the world population, and most of this site's users, live in the USA Does HN publish this statistic? My guess is that >50% of users/traffic to this site is outside of the USA
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> where free and fair elections, along with human rights, are being turned down this year This is precisely the sort of hyperbole OP is describing.
- hestefisk 4y agoFunny how a lot of these failing crypto companies are piling up in Singapore. MAS might have zine explaining to do.
- roflyear 4y agoIt's sad that they announced no withdrawals and the Twitter feed is full of people asking if they can transfer to their hardware wallet. What do they think no withdrawals mean?
- spaceman_2020 4y agoRepeat after me: NOT YOUR KEYS NOT YOUR COINS
- JetSpiegel 4y agoYOUR KEYS YOUR WORTHLESS COINS, because the ponzis sucked the liquidity from the market.
- tylerrobinson 4y agoSerious question. Who would still leave money in one of these platforms after seeing so many competing platforms restrict withdrawals? Are these just the true believers left? Maybe people not paying attention to the trends?
- jeromegv 4y agoBeen spending lots of time on the subreddit related to the platforms. Lots of people wait to hear any bad news before doing any move. Celcius is down? Good thing I'm just on Voyager, it's all good! Lots of people see those events as isolated even if there is clearly contagion since Luna went down. Lots of the people that had money on Voyager thought it was legit because it's listed on the Canadian stock market, thought there was some kind of FIDC insurance, etc. So because they didn't see much warning sign that specifically Voyager was in danger (even if there was!), they don't think anything applies to them. They might not read crypto news every single day or every week. There's also inertia when it comes to finance. People might have stopped buying/selling coins through this crazy market, but they decided to park their money somewhere (on an exchange) without thinking that those go down too. They have been used for many years of coins going up and down, but not the actual exchanges going down. Most of those people were not in crypto when Mt Gox went down. Of course you can see tons of people as well that have been trying to get their money out of Voyager/Celcius for a few weeks before the crash, but there was restrictions on how much you could remove every day, so they got caught while there was still money left.
- peter303 4y agoReminds me of the 1930s with regular banks routinely collapsing and losing customer deposits. 1600 US banks collapsed in early 1990s and 500 in 2009. Most customer deposits were insured.