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> Patreon has done a good job in this space. Not really, they shut people down too, unfairly and without recourse. They shut down Sargon of Akkad for using ba

> Patreon has done a good job in this space. Not really, they shut people down too, unfairly and without recourse. They shut down Sargon of Akkad for using bad words while arguing against racism, for example. And don’t forget - Visa and Mastercard have started to go after content they don’t like (mostly porn and hate speech - but you never know where they’ll draw the line a year or two from now.)

echelon 4y ago
> Visa and Mastercard have started to go after content they don’t like I'm an incredible crypto skeptic, but this has to be one of the better arguments for crypto to exist and be convenient for payment. No other argument resonates like this one.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  The crypto exchanges could take the same position as the credit card companies. Then you are stuck using on-chain transactions and paying fees. Plus you have the inherent risks and instability of most crypto systems (the most popular of which murder the climate). No thanks.
  - echelon 4y ago
    > The crypto exchanges could take the same position as the credit card companies. Then you are stuck using on-chain transactions and paying fees. That seems incredibly unlikely. They didn't shut it down for ape pictures and Matt Damon. You lump libertarians in with sex positive people and you can't really tell them apart anymore. > Plus you have the inherent risks and instability of most crypto systems True. > (the most popular of which murder the climate). Everything we do murders the climate. We're not going to fix the problem without a total economic shutdown. Pointing fingers at crypto folks when Google is training ginormous ML models it won't release and while everyone else continues to fly, drive, enjoy indoor temperatures, eat meat, and buy plastic is a bit like throwing rocks in a glass house.
    - dmichulke 4y ago
      Other cases geared a bit more towards HN folks: - playing computer games where just the graphics card is using 200W-400W ("this has no use and should be forbidden!") - using (and buying and making others buy) over-dimensioned hardware - upgrading your hardware (desktop, laptop, cell phone) every 2 years - three monitors I certainly hope you're using public transport to go to work...
  - goindeep 4y ago
    They have done this before but the old saying in crypto is 'not your keys, not your coins'. You dont need an exchange. But it does help and make things easier.
    - dale_glass 4y ago
      Technically, you don't need an exchange. Practically, you do at some point in the chain. Say this Sargon guy or some other personality with a rep takes payments/donations in BTC. Okay, and what then? You can't pay your rent with that, unless you're renting from some crypto fan, and they also can't pay for their taxes/groceries/gas/etc with crypto. At some point, if crypto is used as money there has to be an exchange. And since crypto is very traceable it's very possible you won't be able to exchange coins with some sort of murky history to them. If you'd have a problem, then your landlord likely also has a problem. And you probably don't want to be on the wrong side of your landlord.
      - krageon 4y ago
        > Practically, you do at some point in the chain. Except you don't - they can be sold and bought entirely without a digital middleman. You can buy goods for them. It's not a weird thought to keep them entirely as themselves, forever. As for the "crypto is very traceable" angle, it's honestly kind of tired and wrong. If it's something you care about, you have solutions available. Arguing about it as if it's some sort of absolute is disingenuous.
        dale_glass 4y ago
        > Except you don't - they can be sold and bought entirely without a digital middleman. You can buy goods for them. It's not a weird thought to keep them entirely as themselves, forever. Where do you pay rent and pay for groceries with crypto? > As for the "crypto is very traceable" angle, it's honestly kind of tired and wrong. If it's something you care about, you have solutions available. Arguing about it as if it's some sort of absolute is disingenuous. I know mixers exist. And a lot of exchanges ban their use, which is detectable.
- goindeep 4y ago
  As the author is the blog post and a non-techie crypto advocate I can tell you when I've been paid in Crypto by people in other countries for work I have done that right there is the only reason I need to support and advocate for Crypto. No bank needed, no government approval needed. Just them to me and if the upswings and downswings of crypto scare you, use a reputable stable coin.
oidar 4y ago
I don't doubt it. All the more reason to own your followers list.
r00bot 4y ago
I mean, this is a direct quote of what Sargon said: “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n***s, just so you know. You act like white n***s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” “Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f*gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n**r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.” You're being pretty disingenuous with your recollection of events.
- nostromo 4y ago
  I’m not being disingenuous. I didn’t follow him at all, but learned about the incident after Sam Harris spoke about it and subsequently moved off of Patreon. You may not agree with the tone, I don’t either, but he’s debating literal white nationalists in this quote - and he knew what words they use to hurt others the most (the n and f words) so he used them against the white nationalists he was debating. I wouldn’t recommend anyone try to do this in 2022, but you can’t argue that he’s a racist from this when you understand the context (again: literally arguing with avowed racists against racism). It’s like people’s brains turn off the second they hear an offensive word.
  - texaslonghorn5 4y ago
    > and he knew what words they use to hurt others the most (the n and f words) so he used them against the white nationalists he was debating. I don't understand the logic here. There's no logical reason to think these racial/homophobic slurs would hurt the white nationalists or cause them to rethink their viewpoints. > you can’t argue that he’s a racist from this when you understand the context (again: literally arguing with avowed racists against racism). Is he not literally digging deeper into these same racist stereotypes to make his point? That's how I interpret the two quotes. He's equating the white nationalists to those two groups in order to denigrate the nationalists, which implies the two groups are also bad.

echelon 4y ago

> Visa and Mastercard have started to go after content they don’t like I'm an incredible crypto skeptic, but this has to be one of the better arguments for crypto to exist and be convenient for payment. No other argument resonates like this one.

D13Fd 4y ago
The crypto exchanges could take the same position as the credit card companies. Then you are stuck using on-chain transactions and paying fees. Plus you have the inherent risks and instability of most crypto systems (the most popular of which murder the climate). No thanks.
- echelon 4y ago
  > The crypto exchanges could take the same position as the credit card companies. Then you are stuck using on-chain transactions and paying fees. That seems incredibly unlikely. They didn't shut it down for ape pictures and Matt Damon. You lump libertarians in with sex positive people and you can't really tell them apart anymore. > Plus you have the inherent risks and instability of most crypto systems True. > (the most popular of which murder the climate). Everything we do murders the climate. We're not going to fix the problem without a total economic shutdown. Pointing fingers at crypto folks when Google is training ginormous ML models it won't release and while everyone else continues to fly, drive, enjoy indoor temperatures, eat meat, and buy plastic is a bit like throwing rocks in a glass house.
  - dmichulke 4y ago
    Other cases geared a bit more towards HN folks: - playing computer games where just the graphics card is using 200W-400W ("this has no use and should be forbidden!") - using (and buying and making others buy) over-dimensioned hardware - upgrading your hardware (desktop, laptop, cell phone) every 2 years - three monitors I certainly hope you're using public transport to go to work...
- goindeep 4y ago
  They have done this before but the old saying in crypto is 'not your keys, not your coins'. You dont need an exchange. But it does help and make things easier.
  - dale_glass 4y ago
    Technically, you don't need an exchange. Practically, you do at some point in the chain. Say this Sargon guy or some other personality with a rep takes payments/donations in BTC. Okay, and what then? You can't pay your rent with that, unless you're renting from some crypto fan, and they also can't pay for their taxes/groceries/gas/etc with crypto. At some point, if crypto is used as money there has to be an exchange. And since crypto is very traceable it's very possible you won't be able to exchange coins with some sort of murky history to them. If you'd have a problem, then your landlord likely also has a problem. And you probably don't want to be on the wrong side of your landlord.
    - krageon 4y ago
      > Practically, you do at some point in the chain. Except you don't - they can be sold and bought entirely without a digital middleman. You can buy goods for them. It's not a weird thought to keep them entirely as themselves, forever. As for the "crypto is very traceable" angle, it's honestly kind of tired and wrong. If it's something you care about, you have solutions available. Arguing about it as if it's some sort of absolute is disingenuous.
      - dale_glass 4y ago
        > Except you don't - they can be sold and bought entirely without a digital middleman. You can buy goods for them. It's not a weird thought to keep them entirely as themselves, forever. Where do you pay rent and pay for groceries with crypto? > As for the "crypto is very traceable" angle, it's honestly kind of tired and wrong. If it's something you care about, you have solutions available. Arguing about it as if it's some sort of absolute is disingenuous. I know mixers exist. And a lot of exchanges ban their use, which is detectable.
goindeep 4y ago
As the author is the blog post and a non-techie crypto advocate I can tell you when I've been paid in Crypto by people in other countries for work I have done that right there is the only reason I need to support and advocate for Crypto. No bank needed, no government approval needed. Just them to me and if the upswings and downswings of crypto scare you, use a reputable stable coin.

oidar 4y ago

I don't doubt it. All the more reason to own your followers list.

r00bot 4y ago

I mean, this is a direct quote of what Sargon said: “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n***s, just so you know. You act like white n***s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” “Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f*gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n**r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.” You're being pretty disingenuous with your recollection of events.

nostromo 4y ago
I’m not being disingenuous. I didn’t follow him at all, but learned about the incident after Sam Harris spoke about it and subsequently moved off of Patreon. You may not agree with the tone, I don’t either, but he’s debating literal white nationalists in this quote - and he knew what words they use to hurt others the most (the n and f words) so he used them against the white nationalists he was debating. I wouldn’t recommend anyone try to do this in 2022, but you can’t argue that he’s a racist from this when you understand the context (again: literally arguing with avowed racists against racism). It’s like people’s brains turn off the second they hear an offensive word.
- texaslonghorn5 4y ago
  > and he knew what words they use to hurt others the most (the n and f words) so he used them against the white nationalists he was debating. I don't understand the logic here. There's no logical reason to think these racial/homophobic slurs would hurt the white nationalists or cause them to rethink their viewpoints. > you can’t argue that he’s a racist from this when you understand the context (again: literally arguing with avowed racists against racism). Is he not literally digging deeper into these same racist stereotypes to make his point? That's how I interpret the two quotes. He's equating the white nationalists to those two groups in order to denigrate the nationalists, which implies the two groups are also bad.