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Here's Hannah Ritchie from Our World in Data debunking this claim: https://twitter.com/_HannahRitchie/status/1538937558675202048 https://twitter.com/_HannahRitc

by shafyy 4y ago

Here's Hannah Ritchie from Our World in Data debunking this claim: https://twitter.com/_HannahRitchie/status/1538937558675202048 https://twitter.com/_HannahRitchie/status/153893755867520204... Basically, they make up a non-standard definition of food miles to include everything like fertilizers, pesticides and machinery. Emissions from food transport are negligible for most foods (except for foods that is transported by planes for long distances, because of very short shelf life, but that's rarely the case) [0]. The best way to cut GHG emissions from food is and will always be to cut out meat and dairy. 0: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#food-production-is-responsible-for-one-quarter-of-the-world-s-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#foo...

staplers 4y ago
This contradicts data from the EPA. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...
- verve_rat 4y ago
  That link doesn't seem to contain any information about food miles, it is irrelevant to this discussion.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  I have never been able to find any consistency in the data around food sustainability in general. Some meta studies using the same data rank GHG per 100g of protein vastly differently. Milk in particular moves pretty far up or down the list. Somehow cheese always stays at the bad end. Shrimp moves up and down a lot too. Fish and chicken swap around a lot. Pork is usually right above those two. And eggs are always at the bottom of the animal proteins as far as impact. Beans and pulses are always at the bottom. I keep meaning to get some red lentils, I have troubles with all the beans and pulses I've tried, but red lentils supposedly lack whatever it is that messes with some people.
epistasis 4y ago
From that thread: > If we want to count these emissions from moving fertilizers, tractors etc. around as 'food miles' then the logical conclusion would not be 'eat local'. > Instead, 'eat from countries that manufacture fertilisers & pesticides' so they don't have to export elsewhere. When I walk to the farmer's market by my house, I always shudder at all the cars that have driven there and parked. The quantity of emissions from driving a personal gasoline vehicle is really staggering compared to any food related emissions. And it's really shocking that people are so ignorant of the toll their personal vehicles take. I think that if people had to manually lift all the fuel that they pumped into their cars, maybe even for one filling per year, they would get a better feel for just how bad driving is. And the CO2 is far heavier than even the fuel, pre combustion. A 20 gallon refill of a tank is 400 pounds of CO2, a fifth of a ton. If we even legalized corner stores for US neighborhoods, we could probably start driving down emissions.
- cafard 4y ago
  Does the corner store grow all its food on the roof?
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  Not everyone can have a garden in their backyard--if they have a backyard. If people driving to buy food makes you shudder, I wonder what a nation of shut-ins eating their government-allotted-and-delivered-by-vehicle bread would do.
  - scrose 4y ago
    I think the OP was talking about the benefits of improving walkability as a way to reduce emissions, not locking yourself at home.
  - twoxproblematic 4y ago
    I've lived in 7 cities in China and wet markets were always within comfortable walking distance. I've tried biking to supermarkets in America but the closest has always been like 30 minutes away, and I need to have a crate just to sanely carry a decent amount to feed my family. May not be representative, but it was sure nice always having fresh food nearby.
api 4y ago
I'm really starting to dislike studies that use artificial synthetic stand-in metrics. It's trivial to cook these to mean anything you want.
denkmoon 4y ago
>The best way to cut GHG emissions from food is and will always be to cut out meat and dairy. Yep. Good. Not doing it. What's next on the list?
- b5n 4y ago
  With such a dismissive attitude towards the first item on 'the list' it's hard to believe there would be any benefit to engaging you further on the subject.
  - denkmoon 4y ago
    For many people, reducing or cutting dairy and meat consumption is a non-starter. There are many cultural and personal reasons for this. I think if your plan to reduce problematic gasses in the atmosphere is to encourage mass dietary change, I don't think that's a realistic plan. Hence, next idea please.
    - shafyy 4y ago
      The better and cheaper plant-based meat and dairy get, the more people will switch. Don’t forget the most effective incentive: saving money. We’ll get there!
- euroderf 4y ago
  Try using meat as a flavoring rather than as a big hulking hunk of gunk at the absolute center of the meal.
metadat 4y ago
Life without cheese is no life at all.

by shafyy 4y ago

staplers 4y ago

This contradicts data from the EPA. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...

verve_rat 4y ago
That link doesn't seem to contain any information about food miles, it is irrelevant to this discussion.
galangalalgol 4y ago
I have never been able to find any consistency in the data around food sustainability in general. Some meta studies using the same data rank GHG per 100g of protein vastly differently. Milk in particular moves pretty far up or down the list. Somehow cheese always stays at the bad end. Shrimp moves up and down a lot too. Fish and chicken swap around a lot. Pork is usually right above those two. And eggs are always at the bottom of the animal proteins as far as impact. Beans and pulses are always at the bottom. I keep meaning to get some red lentils, I have troubles with all the beans and pulses I've tried, but red lentils supposedly lack whatever it is that messes with some people.

epistasis 4y ago

From that thread: > If we want to count these emissions from moving fertilizers, tractors etc. around as 'food miles' then the logical conclusion would not be 'eat local'. > Instead, 'eat from countries that manufacture fertilisers & pesticides' so they don't have to export elsewhere. When I walk to the farmer's market by my house, I always shudder at all the cars that have driven there and parked. The quantity of emissions from driving a personal gasoline vehicle is really staggering compared to any food related emissions. And it's really shocking that people are so ignorant of the toll their personal vehicles take. I think that if people had to manually lift all the fuel that they pumped into their cars, maybe even for one filling per year, they would get a better feel for just how bad driving is. And the CO2 is far heavier than even the fuel, pre combustion. A 20 gallon refill of a tank is 400 pounds of CO2, a fifth of a ton. If we even legalized corner stores for US neighborhoods, we could probably start driving down emissions.

cafard 4y ago
Does the corner store grow all its food on the roof?
nathanaldensr 4y ago
Not everyone can have a garden in their backyard--if they have a backyard. If people driving to buy food makes you shudder, I wonder what a nation of shut-ins eating their government-allotted-and-delivered-by-vehicle bread would do.
- scrose 4y ago
  I think the OP was talking about the benefits of improving walkability as a way to reduce emissions, not locking yourself at home.
- twoxproblematic 4y ago
  I've lived in 7 cities in China and wet markets were always within comfortable walking distance. I've tried biking to supermarkets in America but the closest has always been like 30 minutes away, and I need to have a crate just to sanely carry a decent amount to feed my family. May not be representative, but it was sure nice always having fresh food nearby.

api 4y ago

I'm really starting to dislike studies that use artificial synthetic stand-in metrics. It's trivial to cook these to mean anything you want.

denkmoon 4y ago

>The best way to cut GHG emissions from food is and will always be to cut out meat and dairy. Yep. Good. Not doing it. What's next on the list?

b5n 4y ago
With such a dismissive attitude towards the first item on 'the list' it's hard to believe there would be any benefit to engaging you further on the subject.
- denkmoon 4y ago
  For many people, reducing or cutting dairy and meat consumption is a non-starter. There are many cultural and personal reasons for this. I think if your plan to reduce problematic gasses in the atmosphere is to encourage mass dietary change, I don't think that's a realistic plan. Hence, next idea please.
  - shafyy 4y ago
    The better and cheaper plant-based meat and dairy get, the more people will switch. Don’t forget the most effective incentive: saving money. We’ll get there!
euroderf 4y ago
Try using meat as a flavoring rather than as a big hulking hunk of gunk at the absolute center of the meal.

metadat 4y ago

Life without cheese is no life at all.