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It is extremely stressful some of the times even. But it's the reality we live in. People don't change. Companies change extremely rarely. If you are smart enou

It is extremely stressful some of the times even. But it's the reality we live in. People don't change. Companies change extremely rarely. If you are smart enough to reverse-engineer software systems -- a necessary skill during onboarding -- then you are smart enough to see nobody will change things to a more positive environment, and hence you should leave. I hate it with all my heart but if I have to, I'll do it 50 times more. I am never allowing myself be held hostage.

ignoramous 4y ago
> I am never allowing myself be held hostage. So, you navigate this quagmire begrudgingly, yet don't favour unionisation?
- Aeolun 4y ago
  It wouldn’t change anything about the job description. Even unionizing doesn’t mean that developers suddenly get more say in how uselessly their time is spent.
  - gnz11 4y ago
    > Even unionizing doesn’t mean that developers suddenly get more say in how uselessly their time is spent. I mean...yes, at the macro level, that's part of the point of unionizing.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  Unionization can be hijacked by employers, history knows of such occurrences. Plus Amazon and Google have been caught up (in the recent times nonetheless) of hiring paid saboteurs to impede people from unionizing. My job is not to do underground mafia wars. If the employers want to fight dirty I'll just move to someplace else. Eventually they'll be stuck with the people who are OK with being slaves -- but won't be creative or efficient. I wish them luck. They are hurting themselves, not me or the other worthy programmers. Unpopular opinion: unionization is like democracy: people think it works but in reality there are a lot of shady deals under the table and the system hasn't worked as it is supposed to, for a long long time.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Inquiry: does this apply to other well-paying unions, such as the actors guild and professional sport players? I’m genuinely asking, because as far as I know they are still in existence and regularly ensure better working conditions for their membership without limiting their mobility.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      My wife had a client that went on to play in the walking dead. In order for my wife to be able to continue to do her client’s hair, she had to join the actor’s guild and be “licensed” by them and pay dues. So, I’d say they (at least the actors guild) def can reduce your mobility, even say which hair stylists you are and aren’t allowed to use.
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Well, in order to do her hair for the role. She obviously could style her hair for events in her private life, right? A wedding or whatever? It seems a stretch to say the union interfered with her 'mobility', any more than you can't do plumbing on a public building without having a license etc.
        withinboredom 4y ago
        They have hairstylist on site for the role, as well as wigs. But even in her private life, she had to use guild sanctioned hair stylists.
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        I'd need a citation for that. Seems impossible to enforce, and a gross violation of privacy.
        withinboredom 4y ago
- JackFr 4y ago
  Unionization does not magically change poorly managed companies into well managed ones.
  - capitol_ 4y ago
    Of course it doesn't happen by magic, it takes dedication and hard work.
  - gnz11 4y ago
    No, but unionization gives you a seat at the table to negotiate the rules of the game with upper management. Collectively you stand a better chance than individually to improve the working conditions.
    - logifail 4y ago
      > unionization gives you a seat at the table to negotiate the rules of the game with upper management Hmm, but is this really the case? I know it's how it's sold, but does it actually work like that?
shlurpy 4y ago
The reality in which we live is one crafted by people, and if you don't have a seat at the table crafting the rules, then you are the one being taken for a ride.

ignoramous 4y ago

> I am never allowing myself be held hostage. So, you navigate this quagmire begrudgingly, yet don't favour unionisation?

Aeolun 4y ago
It wouldn’t change anything about the job description. Even unionizing doesn’t mean that developers suddenly get more say in how uselessly their time is spent.
- gnz11 4y ago
  > Even unionizing doesn’t mean that developers suddenly get more say in how uselessly their time is spent. I mean...yes, at the macro level, that's part of the point of unionizing.
pdimitar 4y ago
Unionization can be hijacked by employers, history knows of such occurrences. Plus Amazon and Google have been caught up (in the recent times nonetheless) of hiring paid saboteurs to impede people from unionizing. My job is not to do underground mafia wars. If the employers want to fight dirty I'll just move to someplace else. Eventually they'll be stuck with the people who are OK with being slaves -- but won't be creative or efficient. I wish them luck. They are hurting themselves, not me or the other worthy programmers. Unpopular opinion: unionization is like democracy: people think it works but in reality there are a lot of shady deals under the table and the system hasn't worked as it is supposed to, for a long long time.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Inquiry: does this apply to other well-paying unions, such as the actors guild and professional sport players? I’m genuinely asking, because as far as I know they are still in existence and regularly ensure better working conditions for their membership without limiting their mobility.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    My wife had a client that went on to play in the walking dead. In order for my wife to be able to continue to do her client’s hair, she had to join the actor’s guild and be “licensed” by them and pay dues. So, I’d say they (at least the actors guild) def can reduce your mobility, even say which hair stylists you are and aren’t allowed to use.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Well, in order to do her hair for the role. She obviously could style her hair for events in her private life, right? A wedding or whatever? It seems a stretch to say the union interfered with her 'mobility', any more than you can't do plumbing on a public building without having a license etc.
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        They have hairstylist on site for the role, as well as wigs. But even in her private life, she had to use guild sanctioned hair stylists.
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        I'd need a citation for that. Seems impossible to enforce, and a gross violation of privacy.
        withinboredom 4y ago
JackFr 4y ago
Unionization does not magically change poorly managed companies into well managed ones.
- capitol_ 4y ago
  Of course it doesn't happen by magic, it takes dedication and hard work.
- gnz11 4y ago
  No, but unionization gives you a seat at the table to negotiate the rules of the game with upper management. Collectively you stand a better chance than individually to improve the working conditions.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > unionization gives you a seat at the table to negotiate the rules of the game with upper management Hmm, but is this really the case? I know it's how it's sold, but does it actually work like that?

shlurpy 4y ago

The reality in which we live is one crafted by people, and if you don't have a seat at the table crafting the rules, then you are the one being taken for a ride.