8 ms·

One of my ex-girlfriends had a list of twenty things she required in a mate. I met 19 of them. She left. I met an amazing woman a couple of years later (at 43).

One of my ex-girlfriends had a list of twenty things she required in a mate. I met 19 of them. She left. I met an amazing woman a couple of years later (at 43). We’re married and have an amazing 13 yo daughter. My ex is still single. Maybe examine your standards. And I do mean this in a constructive way, by way of perhaps helping to troubleshoot. The way you describe your experience above, you present as high-expectation which though not needy can be high-maintenance in a different way. Maybe that’s true and maybe not, I don’t know you. My point is, the presentation is important. Before the first date with my wife, we chatted for 3-1/2 hrs on okcupid. That we could hold a conversation that long made me optimistic about dating her. She chose the location for our first date. It was a noisy hangout bar and I could barely hear her. I asked for the check before she finished her food, my hope crushed. Why would someone choose a place like that to get to know someone? I’m walking to the car, dreading the ride back to her place when she asks if I’d like some ice cream. We went to Cold Stone and talked for about 5 hours. Later in our relationship, we needed our communication skills to work through various conflicts. Even though we have high consensus about parenting, we don’t always see eye to eye. My point there, if you expect to find the perfect mate, also expect to be disappointed. What makes a relationship is the willingness to work through challenges.

eganist 4y ago
Checklist-driven dating. Re-examining standards and re-evaluating whether every box needs to be ticked is a hugely important next step. I thought at one point that I'd met someone who "checks" all my boxes only to learn that we had some fundamental incompatibilities that kept the relationship from being fruitful for the both of us (in a metaphorical sense). And honestly, if I encountered a partner who's methodically researched dating with the goal of having kids ASAP, I'd be terrified of getting baby-trapped. The desperation is a colossal turn-off. Also, since crowdsourcing is up her alley, crowdsourcing relationship errors might not be a bad idea when it comes to OP figuring out where she's going wrong. --- Then again, I run Relationship Advice on Reddit. Mild bias on my part.
- actfrench 4y ago
  All true. Maybe I should post this on your channel on Reddit:) I certainly don’t lead the first date with wanting to have kids unless people ask. But I’ve heard from several relationship experts to be sure values are aligned in the first couple dates. Fortunately, people usually specify this in dating apps so you can filter for people who don’t want kids. Funnily enough, one of the biggest turn-offs I’ve experienced from men is them asking me very specific questions about my fertility and the quality of my eggs even before we went on a first date or even via text BEFORE we met such as, and I kid you not, “how long ago did you freeze your eggs.” “Oh you want kids, are you planning to adopt ? Because , your age…” “ would you be willing to have kids before we got married, because your age…” again, via text before we even met. I don’t think there’s any shame in being clear I want a family soon and hopefully this will attract a man who shared the same goal.
  - CodeWriter23 4y ago
    Seriously ridiculous questions. I know many of my Gen-X peers started families in their 40’s without assistance.
    - klipt 4y ago
      But do you know how many tried and failed? The chance of failure at 40 is definitely higher than 30 (unless you froze eggs when younger). > The percentage of IVF cycle starts that resulted in live births was 41.5% in women younger than 35 years, 31.9% in women aged 35–37 years, 22.1% in women aged 38–40 years, 12.4% in women aged 41–42 years, 5% in women aged 43–44 years, and 1 % for women older than 44 years. In contrast, in patients who used eggs obtained from healthy, young donors, 51% of fresh transfers resulted in a live birth, regardless of the age of the recipient. https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2014/03/female-age-related-fertility-decline https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-op...
      - fdhsbjasvh 4y ago
        This is one of the statistical realities I really wish society was more open about. It would really help women make proper informed decisions.
actfrench 4y ago
I really appreciate this reminder . A lot of dating books recommend getting really specific about what you want Funnily enough, I’ve had trouble writing a checklist. I know that I want someone who wants kids, is loving , kind , healthy and into monogamy. I do want to feel physically attracted to them but I think that could take many forms for me. I really appreciate the part of the story where your wife invited you for ice cream. Sometimes I have difficulty being assertive because I’m afraid of rejection or I have a cultural expectation that if a man really liked me, he would chase. But as your story illustrates, it can be very important for women to make that move! Also what I’m getting from this and other threads is that it’s ok if a guy doesn’t seem to immediately want to marry you and have kids, and leave a little more time for the get to know you phase. And then the get to know you phase that lasts the rest of your lives together. Thanks so much for sharing your beautiful story.
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
  It would likely have been the end had she not invited me to ice cream. I’ll share this other funny story. I had decided I was not going to be aggressive making the first move. Fun as they were, I was past looking for sexually-centered ‘relationships’, and I felt moving a little slower than usual would help me find the long term relationship I was looking for. I show up for our fourth date. She’s curt and says come in. We get to the top of the stairs and she asks me to sit down and says “we need to talk”. Yes, THAT line. She says I think we should end this. I say ok, why? Well, I just don’t think you’re into me. Uh ok, why is that? Well you’ve only hugged me and haven’t even tried to kiss me. I immediately planted a passionate kiss on her lips. And explained I decided I was going to let her tell me when she was ready for more intimate touching. We went on the date and had a good time.
  - actfrench 4y ago
    I really like you and I really really like your wife. Your wife is proactive and you’re spending your evening giving love advice to a sad 41 year old lady. You two rock.
    - 4y ago
spiderice 4y ago
I have to ask, what was the 20th trait that you did not possess? Only for my on curiosity. And only if you feel comfortable answering
- ifelsethenyeah 4y ago
  I'll take 3 guesses: a. 13" x 9". A tape measure and body shaming ensued. b. Minimum $200m net balance sheet. c. Minimum 6'7" height.
wellthisisgreat 4y ago
Hi sorry for personal question, but you meant you had a child at 43?
ifelsethenyeah 4y ago
Checklist people who act like they're entitled to order a person at Burger King are perpetual unicorn chasers. The ego and self-absorption of those types is suffocating. The good stuff is when it's effortless at first. For the long term, both parties have to be willing to put in the work to cooperate with another differently opinionated, fallible human being. Too many people ("middle-class" Americans 20-35) behave in an entitled manner without putting in the effort or the reciprocity. They're indeed special, like everyone else. Edit: Also, you should know how someone behaves in extreme situations because that reveals their character. "Do you trust them with your life and everything else?" is the question that must be resolved eventually in the affirmative to consider them a dependable and trustworthy keeper.
- actfrench 4y ago
  I tend to think that when you have a checklist, you're approaching a partner as if they are merchandise for sale. It's better to look at what you share between you, like good communication, love, attraction.
  - actfrench 4y ago
    But also, I think that sometimes people have checklists because they are actually really insecure about intimacy. So, I have great empathy for that.
    - ifelsethenyeah 4y ago
      Ah, good ol' insecure attachment styles, emotional unavailability, and/or fear of abandonment. --- BTW: If you want to be immensely unpopular with most people, get good ones tagging along with other good ones of their preferred general demographics. It's absolutely revolting when people consider others besides themselves without ulterior motive but to be cool. :peace:
mcv 4y ago
The first thing that I thought when I read the question is: why did those 120 dates not work out? I know there are plenty of terrible men out there, but there are also plenty of great ones. 120 should be plenty to find a good match, so why was the match not there? My wife is not perfect, and neither am I. We have our flaws, because everybody does. We're not the perfect mate the other would have designed if we had to design our perfect mate. We compromise, but we also bring things to the table that the other never expected. Don't cling to some idea of an ideal partner, but open yourself up to who they really are, and be willing to put in the work to make it work. And I think the most important attribute in a partner is that they too are willing to put in that work.
- actfrench 4y ago
  This is a really good question and one people asked me over and over. The reason I didn’t go into it more is because when I wrote this post, I was more curious about discovering strategies or hacks others had personally used to find their partner, especially after initially failing. This is one of the most foreword-thinking, creating online communities solving some of the worlds biggest problems on a global scale. I felt that my post sounded desperate and I was prepared for trolls. But I felt it was worth it to expose myself in this deeply personal way in order to gather insights on problem-solving , specifically love hacks , from such brilliant minds. I am not the only person with this problem and so I wanted to approach this community of highly creative problem solvers to see if they’d found any solutions I hadn’t thought of. And then to determine myself if this solution could work for me. Hearing about people’s personal experiences and from some of the data scientists who have weighed in, has been invaluable. And for that, I am so grateful. In the beginning of the conversation, I felt that this was the tone: people were giving advice based on their own experiences or from their perspective as programmers and data scientists. However, as the conversation went on, I felt it became more and more about people analyzing my personal psychology. And people became increasingly insistent I offer up the reasons I did not go on second dates with some people. I felt almost that I was on trial for poor discernment in who I was attracted to or not. Or even, for not being attracted to a particular person, as if that was somehow malevolent on my part. I’m terms of my personal psychology, I already feel I have support in that area. I have licensed professionals, a therapist, two highly experienced spiritual teachers and very good friends and blunt family members who give me honest, though not always easy to hear feedback. And I’m far from perfect. As you all saw, while I started answering people graciously, as I got more fatigued , I started to become less gracious, less clear, lost my temper and even spoke to people and about people in a way that was extremely arrogant, dismissive and rude. When I’m tired, I sometimes have a short fuse, and I’m sorry. (To be clear, I have had overwhelming crushes on men of all shapes and sizes, lots of lovely hair and beautiful smooth heads. You are all handsome in your way.) When I posted, I was not looking for a deep analysis of my personal psychology or character. And I believe I am not obligated to answer questions about that to a group of strangers. It did feel a little uncomfortable when people started asking, then if felt, almost demanding, and at times accusing me for why I chose not to go on second dates with 90% of the men I met online. Certainly, I’ve wondered many times if I’m too selective. And in fact, when I first started dating in my early thirties, I believe I was focused on the wrong things. Since then, I’ve learned that one can really grow to love someone even if there isn’t a spark in the first date - and it’s far better to focus on qualities rather than materialistic things like looks or job. During my most recent round of dating, I kept a log of every single date I went on. I chose an accountability partner who is cutthroat honest who I told about every experience and why I didn’t want to go on a second date. If she felt the reason was bad, I gave the person another try. The other reason I did not feel I wanted to share why I didn’t go on second dates, is because I don’t like to disparage others. (Yes, I know it happened in my comments) This post is about my experience, not the men I went out with, who I know will make some woman very happy one day. Among the reasons I did not go on second dates include sexual harassment, insults, extreme religious views, being rude to a homeless person, overconsumption of alcohol, drug addiction and yes, occasionally bad breath, maybe not fair but it happens. Sometimes, I just wasn’t at all attracted to the person. I hope this explains my reluctance to not justify the specific reasons I did not go on second dates and I once again thank everyone who weighed in - especially those of you who did volunteer some great, scaleable love hacks :) Together, through our creative minds and the power of technology, I believe we can solve any problem in the world.

eganist 4y ago

Checklist-driven dating. Re-examining standards and re-evaluating whether every box needs to be ticked is a hugely important next step. I thought at one point that I'd met someone who "checks" all my boxes only to learn that we had some fundamental incompatibilities that kept the relationship from being fruitful for the both of us (in a metaphorical sense). And honestly, if I encountered a partner who's methodically researched dating with the goal of having kids ASAP, I'd be terrified of getting baby-trapped. The desperation is a colossal turn-off. Also, since crowdsourcing is up her alley, crowdsourcing relationship errors might not be a bad idea when it comes to OP figuring out where she's going wrong. --- Then again, I run Relationship Advice on Reddit. Mild bias on my part.

actfrench 4y ago
All true. Maybe I should post this on your channel on Reddit:) I certainly don’t lead the first date with wanting to have kids unless people ask. But I’ve heard from several relationship experts to be sure values are aligned in the first couple dates. Fortunately, people usually specify this in dating apps so you can filter for people who don’t want kids. Funnily enough, one of the biggest turn-offs I’ve experienced from men is them asking me very specific questions about my fertility and the quality of my eggs even before we went on a first date or even via text BEFORE we met such as, and I kid you not, “how long ago did you freeze your eggs.” “Oh you want kids, are you planning to adopt ? Because , your age…” “ would you be willing to have kids before we got married, because your age…” again, via text before we even met. I don’t think there’s any shame in being clear I want a family soon and hopefully this will attract a man who shared the same goal.
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
  Seriously ridiculous questions. I know many of my Gen-X peers started families in their 40’s without assistance.
  - klipt 4y ago
    But do you know how many tried and failed? The chance of failure at 40 is definitely higher than 30 (unless you froze eggs when younger). > The percentage of IVF cycle starts that resulted in live births was 41.5% in women younger than 35 years, 31.9% in women aged 35–37 years, 22.1% in women aged 38–40 years, 12.4% in women aged 41–42 years, 5% in women aged 43–44 years, and 1 % for women older than 44 years. In contrast, in patients who used eggs obtained from healthy, young donors, 51% of fresh transfers resulted in a live birth, regardless of the age of the recipient. https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2014/03/female-age-related-fertility-decline https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-op...
    - fdhsbjasvh 4y ago
      This is one of the statistical realities I really wish society was more open about. It would really help women make proper informed decisions.

actfrench 4y ago

I really appreciate this reminder . A lot of dating books recommend getting really specific about what you want Funnily enough, I’ve had trouble writing a checklist. I know that I want someone who wants kids, is loving , kind , healthy and into monogamy. I do want to feel physically attracted to them but I think that could take many forms for me. I really appreciate the part of the story where your wife invited you for ice cream. Sometimes I have difficulty being assertive because I’m afraid of rejection or I have a cultural expectation that if a man really liked me, he would chase. But as your story illustrates, it can be very important for women to make that move! Also what I’m getting from this and other threads is that it’s ok if a guy doesn’t seem to immediately want to marry you and have kids, and leave a little more time for the get to know you phase. And then the get to know you phase that lasts the rest of your lives together. Thanks so much for sharing your beautiful story.

CodeWriter23 4y ago
It would likely have been the end had she not invited me to ice cream. I’ll share this other funny story. I had decided I was not going to be aggressive making the first move. Fun as they were, I was past looking for sexually-centered ‘relationships’, and I felt moving a little slower than usual would help me find the long term relationship I was looking for. I show up for our fourth date. She’s curt and says come in. We get to the top of the stairs and she asks me to sit down and says “we need to talk”. Yes, THAT line. She says I think we should end this. I say ok, why? Well, I just don’t think you’re into me. Uh ok, why is that? Well you’ve only hugged me and haven’t even tried to kiss me. I immediately planted a passionate kiss on her lips. And explained I decided I was going to let her tell me when she was ready for more intimate touching. We went on the date and had a good time.
- actfrench 4y ago
  I really like you and I really really like your wife. Your wife is proactive and you’re spending your evening giving love advice to a sad 41 year old lady. You two rock.
  - 4y ago

spiderice 4y ago

I have to ask, what was the 20th trait that you did not possess? Only for my on curiosity. And only if you feel comfortable answering

ifelsethenyeah 4y ago
I'll take 3 guesses: a. 13" x 9". A tape measure and body shaming ensued. b. Minimum $200m net balance sheet. c. Minimum 6'7" height.

wellthisisgreat 4y ago

Hi sorry for personal question, but you meant you had a child at 43?

ifelsethenyeah 4y ago

Checklist people who act like they're entitled to order a person at Burger King are perpetual unicorn chasers. The ego and self-absorption of those types is suffocating. The good stuff is when it's effortless at first. For the long term, both parties have to be willing to put in the work to cooperate with another differently opinionated, fallible human being. Too many people ("middle-class" Americans 20-35) behave in an entitled manner without putting in the effort or the reciprocity. They're indeed special, like everyone else. Edit: Also, you should know how someone behaves in extreme situations because that reveals their character. "Do you trust them with your life and everything else?" is the question that must be resolved eventually in the affirmative to consider them a dependable and trustworthy keeper.

actfrench 4y ago
I tend to think that when you have a checklist, you're approaching a partner as if they are merchandise for sale. It's better to look at what you share between you, like good communication, love, attraction.
- actfrench 4y ago
  But also, I think that sometimes people have checklists because they are actually really insecure about intimacy. So, I have great empathy for that.
  - ifelsethenyeah 4y ago
    Ah, good ol' insecure attachment styles, emotional unavailability, and/or fear of abandonment. --- BTW: If you want to be immensely unpopular with most people, get good ones tagging along with other good ones of their preferred general demographics. It's absolutely revolting when people consider others besides themselves without ulterior motive but to be cool. :peace:

mcv 4y ago

The first thing that I thought when I read the question is: why did those 120 dates not work out? I know there are plenty of terrible men out there, but there are also plenty of great ones. 120 should be plenty to find a good match, so why was the match not there? My wife is not perfect, and neither am I. We have our flaws, because everybody does. We're not the perfect mate the other would have designed if we had to design our perfect mate. We compromise, but we also bring things to the table that the other never expected. Don't cling to some idea of an ideal partner, but open yourself up to who they really are, and be willing to put in the work to make it work. And I think the most important attribute in a partner is that they too are willing to put in that work.

actfrench 4y ago
This is a really good question and one people asked me over and over. The reason I didn’t go into it more is because when I wrote this post, I was more curious about discovering strategies or hacks others had personally used to find their partner, especially after initially failing. This is one of the most foreword-thinking, creating online communities solving some of the worlds biggest problems on a global scale. I felt that my post sounded desperate and I was prepared for trolls. But I felt it was worth it to expose myself in this deeply personal way in order to gather insights on problem-solving , specifically love hacks , from such brilliant minds. I am not the only person with this problem and so I wanted to approach this community of highly creative problem solvers to see if they’d found any solutions I hadn’t thought of. And then to determine myself if this solution could work for me. Hearing about people’s personal experiences and from some of the data scientists who have weighed in, has been invaluable. And for that, I am so grateful. In the beginning of the conversation, I felt that this was the tone: people were giving advice based on their own experiences or from their perspective as programmers and data scientists. However, as the conversation went on, I felt it became more and more about people analyzing my personal psychology. And people became increasingly insistent I offer up the reasons I did not go on second dates with some people. I felt almost that I was on trial for poor discernment in who I was attracted to or not. Or even, for not being attracted to a particular person, as if that was somehow malevolent on my part. I’m terms of my personal psychology, I already feel I have support in that area. I have licensed professionals, a therapist, two highly experienced spiritual teachers and very good friends and blunt family members who give me honest, though not always easy to hear feedback. And I’m far from perfect. As you all saw, while I started answering people graciously, as I got more fatigued , I started to become less gracious, less clear, lost my temper and even spoke to people and about people in a way that was extremely arrogant, dismissive and rude. When I’m tired, I sometimes have a short fuse, and I’m sorry. (To be clear, I have had overwhelming crushes on men of all shapes and sizes, lots of lovely hair and beautiful smooth heads. You are all handsome in your way.) When I posted, I was not looking for a deep analysis of my personal psychology or character. And I believe I am not obligated to answer questions about that to a group of strangers. It did feel a little uncomfortable when people started asking, then if felt, almost demanding, and at times accusing me for why I chose not to go on second dates with 90% of the men I met online. Certainly, I’ve wondered many times if I’m too selective. And in fact, when I first started dating in my early thirties, I believe I was focused on the wrong things. Since then, I’ve learned that one can really grow to love someone even if there isn’t a spark in the first date - and it’s far better to focus on qualities rather than materialistic things like looks or job. During my most recent round of dating, I kept a log of every single date I went on. I chose an accountability partner who is cutthroat honest who I told about every experience and why I didn’t want to go on a second date. If she felt the reason was bad, I gave the person another try. The other reason I did not feel I wanted to share why I didn’t go on second dates, is because I don’t like to disparage others. (Yes, I know it happened in my comments) This post is about my experience, not the men I went out with, who I know will make some woman very happy one day. Among the reasons I did not go on second dates include sexual harassment, insults, extreme religious views, being rude to a homeless person, overconsumption of alcohol, drug addiction and yes, occasionally bad breath, maybe not fair but it happens. Sometimes, I just wasn’t at all attracted to the person. I hope this explains my reluctance to not justify the specific reasons I did not go on second dates and I once again thank everyone who weighed in - especially those of you who did volunteer some great, scaleable love hacks :) Together, through our creative minds and the power of technology, I believe we can solve any problem in the world.