3 ms·

Robertson > *

by gjvc 4y ago

Robertson > *

beachy 4y ago
I have never had a Robertson (square hole) screw strip out or have any problem, and it's impossible to use the wrong size screwdriver, which is not the case for philips head or posidrive. Since Robertson is better yet so much simpler, I can only imagine it was hard to manufacture in the old days or they would surely be more widespread.
- nkurz 4y ago
  I haven't seen anyone claim that it was hard to manufacture. Sadly, the answer seems to be that Robertson screwed up the initial licensing so badly that the technically worse Phillips took over the market. Here's an account: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwdriver-history/ https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwd... Some people try to argue that Phillips was actually superior, since it cams out rather than breaks, but I feel like they are just making excuses. I'm confused why Robertson/Square is still so hard to find in the US. I don't think my local Home Depot carries any. Torx (which is just about as good) occupies the niche it would otherwise have.
  - selcuka 4y ago
    > Some people try to argue that Phillips was actually superior, since it cams out rather than breaks, but I feel like they are just making excuses. To be honest I like that square heads just break as I can simply hide the hole and drill a new one instead of trying to remove the stripped head.
  - cf100clunk 4y ago
    Henry Ford seems to come off lightly in that article. Legend has it that his terms were almost exclusive, so Robertson walked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mDqKtivuI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mDqKtivuI
- Lammy 4y ago
  I’ve never had a Robertson head strip out either, and in fact the drivers grip the heads so well that the few failures I have experienced were all due to the threads binding in the material followed by me overtorquing it until the heads just twisted right off the top of the screw shafts.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    They can strip when the driver bit is worn on the corners.
echelon 4y ago
I want to know why we continue to put accursed Phillips head hardware into everything. It's clearly inferior and large percentage of manual interactions will result in a cam out. The cost of buying a new set of screwdrivers really isn't that high, so what gives? Phillips head screws are everywhere, and they really shouldn't be.
- nneonneo 4y ago
  They’re ubiquitous for things like wood screws and they really, really shouldn’t be. I’m actually kinda glad that Robertson heads are common in Canada.
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    The only time I encounter Phillips is drywall screws here in Canada. I’m only one person, but yeah, Robertson is the majority of what I find here.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
    Having just been in the fastener section at my local Home Depot... almost all the wood screws are Torx. Drywall screws are still Phillips, but all the deck screws and almost all the interior screws seem to be Torx, and they almost all come with a driver bit in the box. I now have a nice little pile of leftover Torx drivers for my impact driver...
mshook 4y ago
Until I watched a video on YouTube about it a year ago, I didn't even know it was a thing. I'm in France fyi. https://youtu.be/R-mDqKtivuI https://youtu.be/R-mDqKtivuI
booi 4y ago
Honestly I think part of the reason is because in 95% of cases, a Philips is going to be easier. Wrong depth, wrong size, wrong gauge, still works in most household cases. Robertson is not as forgiving
- stormbrew 4y ago
  (*) Works until you discover you've slowly stripped the screw and can no longer turn it.
  - booi 4y ago
    Yup and it happens but my guess is most screws only need to go in or out once or twice. Again, technically speaking I think Robertson is better but the reality is most people can accomplish what they need with a #2 philips regardless of what size is actually there.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  Except that there are only three common sizes of Robertson that are impossible to confuse, and the drivers are always colour-coded (a "red robby" is a #2 Robertson, green is #1, and yellow is #3). Nearly all screws will be #2 #1. #3 (huge) is uncommon and #0 (tiny) is very uncommon.
  - booi 4y ago
    Honestly it’s the same with philips. #0-#4 will cover 99% of cases. But in a pinch, a thin #2 will unscrew all of them.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      > impossible to confuse Read that part again. It's definitely not true of Philips.
klyrs 4y ago
The article is hilarious. It notes that torx and robertson are superior, but still recommends phillips.
- mkingston 4y ago
  As I read it, it recommends Phillips for manufacturing due to self centering and perhaps cam out; and Torx and Robertson for manual applications. I guess it draws this particular contrast with "manual" applications to highlight that it in fact means automated manufacturing.
Dylan16807 4y ago
It's a solid design but is it better than Torx? In what ways?

Robertson > *

by gjvc 4y ago

Robertson > *

I have never had a Robertson (square hole) screw strip out or have any problem, and it's impossible to use the wrong size screwdriver, which is not the case for philips head or posidrive. Since Robertson is better yet so much simpler, I can only imagine it was hard to manufacture in the old days or they would surely be more widespread.

nkurz 4y ago
I haven't seen anyone claim that it was hard to manufacture. Sadly, the answer seems to be that Robertson screwed up the initial licensing so badly that the technically worse Phillips took over the market. Here's an account: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwdriver-history/ https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwd... Some people try to argue that Phillips was actually superior, since it cams out rather than breaks, but I feel like they are just making excuses. I'm confused why Robertson/Square is still so hard to find in the US. I don't think my local Home Depot carries any. Torx (which is just about as good) occupies the niche it would otherwise have.
- selcuka 4y ago
  > Some people try to argue that Phillips was actually superior, since it cams out rather than breaks, but I feel like they are just making excuses. To be honest I like that square heads just break as I can simply hide the hole and drill a new one instead of trying to remove the stripped head.
- cf100clunk 4y ago
  Henry Ford seems to come off lightly in that article. Legend has it that his terms were almost exclusive, so Robertson walked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mDqKtivuI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mDqKtivuI
Lammy 4y ago
I’ve never had a Robertson head strip out either, and in fact the drivers grip the heads so well that the few failures I have experienced were all due to the threads binding in the material followed by me overtorquing it until the heads just twisted right off the top of the screw shafts.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  They can strip when the driver bit is worn on the corners.

echelon 4y ago

I want to know why we continue to put accursed Phillips head hardware into everything. It's clearly inferior and large percentage of manual interactions will result in a cam out. The cost of buying a new set of screwdrivers really isn't that high, so what gives? Phillips head screws are everywhere, and they really shouldn't be.

nneonneo 4y ago
They’re ubiquitous for things like wood screws and they really, really shouldn’t be. I’m actually kinda glad that Robertson heads are common in Canada.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  The only time I encounter Phillips is drywall screws here in Canada. I’m only one person, but yeah, Robertson is the majority of what I find here.
- SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
  Having just been in the fastener section at my local Home Depot... almost all the wood screws are Torx. Drywall screws are still Phillips, but all the deck screws and almost all the interior screws seem to be Torx, and they almost all come with a driver bit in the box. I now have a nice little pile of leftover Torx drivers for my impact driver...

mshook 4y ago

Until I watched a video on YouTube about it a year ago, I didn't even know it was a thing. I'm in France fyi. https://youtu.be/R-mDqKtivuI https://youtu.be/R-mDqKtivuI

booi 4y ago

Honestly I think part of the reason is because in 95% of cases, a Philips is going to be easier. Wrong depth, wrong size, wrong gauge, still works in most household cases. Robertson is not as forgiving

stormbrew 4y ago
(*) Works until you discover you've slowly stripped the screw and can no longer turn it.
- booi 4y ago
  Yup and it happens but my guess is most screws only need to go in or out once or twice. Again, technically speaking I think Robertson is better but the reality is most people can accomplish what they need with a #2 philips regardless of what size is actually there.
frosted-flakes 4y ago
Except that there are only three common sizes of Robertson that are impossible to confuse, and the drivers are always colour-coded (a "red robby" is a #2 Robertson, green is #1, and yellow is #3). Nearly all screws will be #2 #1. #3 (huge) is uncommon and #0 (tiny) is very uncommon.
- booi 4y ago
  Honestly it’s the same with philips. #0-#4 will cover 99% of cases. But in a pinch, a thin #2 will unscrew all of them.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    > impossible to confuse Read that part again. It's definitely not true of Philips.

klyrs 4y ago

The article is hilarious. It notes that torx and robertson are superior, but still recommends phillips.

mkingston 4y ago
As I read it, it recommends Phillips for manufacturing due to self centering and perhaps cam out; and Torx and Robertson for manual applications. I guess it draws this particular contrast with "manual" applications to highlight that it in fact means automated manufacturing.

Dylan16807 4y ago

It's a solid design but is it better than Torx? In what ways?