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Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform

Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform may be unwilling or unable to fulfill in the future, as appears to be the case with Voyager and numerous others before it.

Skunkleton 4y ago
Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.
- sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
  Crypto is one of the biggest active victim-blaming communities. "Not your wallet not your coin", or whatever they like saying, is just is just deflection from valid criticism that crypto is very easy to exploit without recourse.
  - prohobo 4y ago
    I disagree. To me it's like saying passwords are broken because most people choose "password123". Or like saying dollar bills are bad because they can rip. Safety rails should be made of course, but if you aren't even maintaining basic hygiene within a system then I'm sorry but that's on you. People are learning to use better passwords, and people learned long ago to keep their paper money in a wallet. The same will happen with crypto.
    - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
      How much do you think is the fair value of 1 bitcoin?
      - prohobo 4y ago
        I have no idea. Certainly more than the cost of a pizza. There are 21 million, and if split evenly among the world population each person would get ~0.002625. It depends on a lot of factors; like how important it might become for people to avoid using fiat or government controlled digital currencies, or how deeply integrated it could become in daily life.
        sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        Splitting it evenly among the world population seems completely irrelevant for this conversation.
      - henriquez 4y ago
        Check coinmarketcap - you don’t have to speculate about the market value because they list it.
        sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        I didn't ask about the "market value", and I wasn't asking you.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      Passwords are broken because people choose “password123”. People work on all sorts of alternatives because of this.
      - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        It's funny how badly my criticism went over his head.
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      …and that woman was date raped because she wore a short minidress. It’s her fault! /s
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - bandyaboot 4y ago
      > The same will happen with crypto. What’s the motivation for this to happen?
- prohobo 4y ago
  My guess: from a speculative standpoint Bitcoin is finite and the only real competitor to fiat. There's also a large amount of sustained hype. It's unlikely to flatline unless something really major happens. Blockchains like Ethereum are not (and aren't meant to be) alternatives to fiat. In fact, the best thing for ETH would be low price, since it's mostly used as gas. Altcoins are almost entirely vaporware until ETH tech matures and consumer services become feasible. Until then, any high valuation of either ETH or Altcoin is 100% Tulip Mania. I have no idea about any blockchains outside of Bitcoin or Ethereum.
- hackingforfun 4y ago
  Direct ownership is the point though. Bitcoin allows direct ownership. Also, being the biggest, it can be considered the safest crypto.
  - lottin 4y ago
    Bitcoin has no concept of ownership. "Not your keys, not your coins" means exactly that. If you lose your car keys, you still own your car. This is not true of bitcoin.
    - hackingforfun 4y ago
      No concept of ownership is a stretch. If you have the keys to a Bitcoin wallet, you own that Bitcoin wallet. If you lost physical cash or gold, it would be like losing your keys to a Bitcoin wallet. No one would replace your physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, if you lost it. However, that doesn't mean that you don't own that physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, at least while you have it in your possession.
      - lottin 4y ago
        Well, when it comes to bitcoins, you only own them as long as you have them in your possession—which means you don't own them, you only possess them. This is what I mean by no concept of ownership. The bitcoin network doesn't care who is the rightful owner of the bitcoins, it only cares about who has access to them.

Skunkleton 4y ago

Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.

sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
Crypto is one of the biggest active victim-blaming communities. "Not your wallet not your coin", or whatever they like saying, is just is just deflection from valid criticism that crypto is very easy to exploit without recourse.
- prohobo 4y ago
  I disagree. To me it's like saying passwords are broken because most people choose "password123". Or like saying dollar bills are bad because they can rip. Safety rails should be made of course, but if you aren't even maintaining basic hygiene within a system then I'm sorry but that's on you. People are learning to use better passwords, and people learned long ago to keep their paper money in a wallet. The same will happen with crypto.
  - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
    How much do you think is the fair value of 1 bitcoin?
    - prohobo 4y ago
      I have no idea. Certainly more than the cost of a pizza. There are 21 million, and if split evenly among the world population each person would get ~0.002625. It depends on a lot of factors; like how important it might become for people to avoid using fiat or government controlled digital currencies, or how deeply integrated it could become in daily life.
      - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        Splitting it evenly among the world population seems completely irrelevant for this conversation.
    - henriquez 4y ago
      Check coinmarketcap - you don’t have to speculate about the market value because they list it.
      - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        I didn't ask about the "market value", and I wasn't asking you.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    Passwords are broken because people choose “password123”. People work on all sorts of alternatives because of this.
    - sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
      It's funny how badly my criticism went over his head.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    …and that woman was date raped because she wore a short minidress. It’s her fault! /s
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - bandyaboot 4y ago
    > The same will happen with crypto. What’s the motivation for this to happen?
prohobo 4y ago
My guess: from a speculative standpoint Bitcoin is finite and the only real competitor to fiat. There's also a large amount of sustained hype. It's unlikely to flatline unless something really major happens. Blockchains like Ethereum are not (and aren't meant to be) alternatives to fiat. In fact, the best thing for ETH would be low price, since it's mostly used as gas. Altcoins are almost entirely vaporware until ETH tech matures and consumer services become feasible. Until then, any high valuation of either ETH or Altcoin is 100% Tulip Mania. I have no idea about any blockchains outside of Bitcoin or Ethereum.
hackingforfun 4y ago
Direct ownership is the point though. Bitcoin allows direct ownership. Also, being the biggest, it can be considered the safest crypto.
- lottin 4y ago
  Bitcoin has no concept of ownership. "Not your keys, not your coins" means exactly that. If you lose your car keys, you still own your car. This is not true of bitcoin.
  - hackingforfun 4y ago
    No concept of ownership is a stretch. If you have the keys to a Bitcoin wallet, you own that Bitcoin wallet. If you lost physical cash or gold, it would be like losing your keys to a Bitcoin wallet. No one would replace your physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, if you lost it. However, that doesn't mean that you don't own that physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, at least while you have it in your possession.
    - lottin 4y ago
      Well, when it comes to bitcoins, you only own them as long as you have them in your possession—which means you don't own them, you only possess them. This is what I mean by no concept of ownership. The bitcoin network doesn't care who is the rightful owner of the bitcoins, it only cares about who has access to them.