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I have relatives in Russia. There is a big gap between how they see the current world and how it's reported in the western media. For them Russia is the last re

I have relatives in Russia. There is a big gap between how they see the current world and how it's reported in the western media. For them Russia is the last really independent and free country in the world.

sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
I also have friends in Russia, and second this.
oneoff786 4y ago
Western Russia? Am curious if they have shared any thoughts on their economic situation?
- obscurette 4y ago
  Yes, western Russia. For them (and I'm afraid that for majority) there isn't much difference - they are getting their income from state and the only problem they really see is that some things are becoming suddenly much more expensive. But for people remembering soviet times it isn't serious tragedy - they (or their parents) have seen it many times. Disappearing McDonalds, Ikea etc are just signs that USA controls the world and are lame attempts to damage Russia.
  - markdestouches 4y ago
    If one ever wanted to know what's happening in the mind of a frog that is being boiled slowly, this is probably the closest approximation. These people don't understand where the country is going, and when it gets there, they will not be able to recognize what events led to that place, allowing politicians to perpetuate the same nonsensical lies all over again. It sounds dramatic, but I believe the country is doomed and on its way down it will take its neighbors with it.
    - vanattab 4y ago
      Can someone explain this frog in boiling water reference. I had never heard it before and now I have seen it on HN 4 times in 24 hours. What gives?
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        It’s a fairly common idiom in eastern US at least. Slowly increase temperatures so so frogs in the water don’t realize they’re in danger. It’s not a real thing though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    > But for people remembering soviet times it isn't serious tragedy - they (or their parents) have seen it many times I’ve seen this stated before but it seems very confusing. Widespread poverty sucks. There’s no way people are fine with returning to it because they saw it decades ago. Surely nobody thinks that’s ok?
    - obscurette 4y ago
      It's complicated (surprise). But much of it comes from deep russian culture - there has been no private ownership concept. The tsar is the only owner of everything and gives or takes if he decides to do so. It doesn't matter how rich and/or powerful you are. People are just used to it that rulers sometimes give and sometimes take all back. "Lost everything? It's normal, life goes on."
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        I don’t see how that could possibly be true in western russia. Eastern Russia, sure. They’re poor and under the government boot for the memorable past. But western Russia? Like Moscow? There’s no way people still feel like that.
senttoschool 4y ago
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3131467/us-offer-millions-new-funds-take-china https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3131467/us-offe...
- rnk 4y ago
  The US is far from blameless about our actions in the world, but that doesn't excuse the attack on their own citizens in Russia or China. To see the ultimate difference between the US and China and Russia, make a public comment criticizing the government in public, on TV, in the newspaper. In the US, I don't lose my job, the police don't come to my house, I am not ostracized by my neighbor. Maybe I'm encouraged to write editorials to expand on my ideas or even run for office. Whether I'm supporting the current leader or government or the opposition candidate from a previous election, I'm still free. In China or Russia you are not. No one monitored my high school teachers via camera to see if they reported anything that was against the party rule.
handsclean 4y ago
To be clear, this isn’t the “I can do what I want” kind of freedom, this is the “my country can do what it wants” kind of freedom, right? Because if we’re talking about personal freedom, then can you help me understand how they square it with an admitted dictatorship and a (reputation for a) culture of “don’t make trouble, just endure it”?
- vkou 4y ago
  Not the parent poster, but yes, I also have relatives in Russia (for a double helping of irony, some of them are ethnic Ukrainians who have fully drunk the Russian kool-aid), and yes, you are pretty much correct. They don't like to talk about domestic problems, but will happily talk your ear off about how under Putin, the south^w^wRussia will rise again on the international stage. They are, of course, utterly delusional.
jl6 4y ago
> independent and free If we interpret this to mean independent and free to set its own foreign policy, independent of conformance to the global rules-based order, then I think it’s true. There is pride in answering to no-one. Unfortunately they appear to be using that freedom to trample on the freedom of other countries.
- miohtama 4y ago
  There is also no freedom of press or politics. No freedom to criticise Putin.
  - dmoy 4y ago
    Yea the country can be free of external influence, while the people are not free. Or v. versa. Or both, or neither.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  And thus using that freedom to paint themselves into an ever-smaller corner.
NicoJuicy 4y ago
Untill they say the word "war" in public. I think most of us are aware of how propaganda works.
markdestouches 4y ago
I'm not trying to be mean, but, perhaps your relatives are watching too much state TV. I also have relatives in there, and, unfortunately, a lot among the elder generation are irreversibly brainwashed.

sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago

I also have friends in Russia, and second this.

oneoff786 4y ago

Western Russia? Am curious if they have shared any thoughts on their economic situation?

obscurette 4y ago
Yes, western Russia. For them (and I'm afraid that for majority) there isn't much difference - they are getting their income from state and the only problem they really see is that some things are becoming suddenly much more expensive. But for people remembering soviet times it isn't serious tragedy - they (or their parents) have seen it many times. Disappearing McDonalds, Ikea etc are just signs that USA controls the world and are lame attempts to damage Russia.
- markdestouches 4y ago
  If one ever wanted to know what's happening in the mind of a frog that is being boiled slowly, this is probably the closest approximation. These people don't understand where the country is going, and when it gets there, they will not be able to recognize what events led to that place, allowing politicians to perpetuate the same nonsensical lies all over again. It sounds dramatic, but I believe the country is doomed and on its way down it will take its neighbors with it.
  - vanattab 4y ago
    Can someone explain this frog in boiling water reference. I had never heard it before and now I have seen it on HN 4 times in 24 hours. What gives?
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      It’s a fairly common idiom in eastern US at least. Slowly increase temperatures so so frogs in the water don’t realize they’re in danger. It’s not a real thing though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
- oneoff786 4y ago
  > But for people remembering soviet times it isn't serious tragedy - they (or their parents) have seen it many times I’ve seen this stated before but it seems very confusing. Widespread poverty sucks. There’s no way people are fine with returning to it because they saw it decades ago. Surely nobody thinks that’s ok?
  - obscurette 4y ago
    It's complicated (surprise). But much of it comes from deep russian culture - there has been no private ownership concept. The tsar is the only owner of everything and gives or takes if he decides to do so. It doesn't matter how rich and/or powerful you are. People are just used to it that rulers sometimes give and sometimes take all back. "Lost everything? It's normal, life goes on."
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      I don’t see how that could possibly be true in western russia. Eastern Russia, sure. They’re poor and under the government boot for the memorable past. But western Russia? Like Moscow? There’s no way people still feel like that.

senttoschool 4y ago

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3131467/us-offer-millions-new-funds-take-china https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3131467/us-offe...

rnk 4y ago
The US is far from blameless about our actions in the world, but that doesn't excuse the attack on their own citizens in Russia or China. To see the ultimate difference between the US and China and Russia, make a public comment criticizing the government in public, on TV, in the newspaper. In the US, I don't lose my job, the police don't come to my house, I am not ostracized by my neighbor. Maybe I'm encouraged to write editorials to expand on my ideas or even run for office. Whether I'm supporting the current leader or government or the opposition candidate from a previous election, I'm still free. In China or Russia you are not. No one monitored my high school teachers via camera to see if they reported anything that was against the party rule.

handsclean 4y ago

To be clear, this isn’t the “I can do what I want” kind of freedom, this is the “my country can do what it wants” kind of freedom, right? Because if we’re talking about personal freedom, then can you help me understand how they square it with an admitted dictatorship and a (reputation for a) culture of “don’t make trouble, just endure it”?

vkou 4y ago
Not the parent poster, but yes, I also have relatives in Russia (for a double helping of irony, some of them are ethnic Ukrainians who have fully drunk the Russian kool-aid), and yes, you are pretty much correct. They don't like to talk about domestic problems, but will happily talk your ear off about how under Putin, the south^w^wRussia will rise again on the international stage. They are, of course, utterly delusional.

jl6 4y ago

> independent and free If we interpret this to mean independent and free to set its own foreign policy, independent of conformance to the global rules-based order, then I think it’s true. There is pride in answering to no-one. Unfortunately they appear to be using that freedom to trample on the freedom of other countries.

miohtama 4y ago
There is also no freedom of press or politics. No freedom to criticise Putin.
- dmoy 4y ago
  Yea the country can be free of external influence, while the people are not free. Or v. versa. Or both, or neither.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
actionfromafar 4y ago
And thus using that freedom to paint themselves into an ever-smaller corner.

NicoJuicy 4y ago

Untill they say the word "war" in public. I think most of us are aware of how propaganda works.

markdestouches 4y ago

I'm not trying to be mean, but, perhaps your relatives are watching too much state TV. I also have relatives in there, and, unfortunately, a lot among the elder generation are irreversibly brainwashed.