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Wording: Germany will not legalise Cannabis. Maybe it will be decriminalized, but there is basically no chance of legalisation (too complex/expensive of a proce

Wording: Germany will not legalise Cannabis. Maybe it will be decriminalized, but there is basically no chance of legalisation (too complex/expensive of a process). I have no reason to trust the SPD that they will deliver on this, they are the infamous poster child for betrayal. They are the kind of party that would sell their entire voting base if it served the acting politicians individual careers. If they will do it, then it will be leveraged to the max, right before the next critical election.

mschuster91 4y ago
Agreed on the idiocy of the SPD ("wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten")... but this time, the Justice Ministry belongs to the FDP. They have alienated an awful lot of voters with their effective denial of reasonable covid measures, they'd be completely done for if they would not manage to get cannabis legal-ish enough that people can buy cannabis products in stores and smoke on the streets without fearing arrest. We have elections in Bavaria and Hessen in 2023, the FDP will need at least something to show off, and cannabis is the easiest thing to pass, particularly as the Greens and parts of the SPD have long fought for it.
- hans1729 4y ago
  advocatus diaboli: the FDP has a long track record of advocating for legalisation and then voting against it or abstain in parliamentary elections. Their core clientel are small business owners and (other) anti-regulation folk, I strongly doubt that they lose big margins of voters due to their covid policy, maybe even the opposite is the case. Point being: if the FDP is the reason to have faith in this, I'm not feeling much more confident than before.
- 2-718-281-828 4y ago
  > They have alienated an awful lot of voters with their effective denial of reasonable covid measures they also won a number of sympathizers ... and "reasonable measures" - what a funny moment to write that nonsense.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > they also won a number of sympathizers LOL, they lost massively in all elections since the Bundestagswahl - mostly because of their disastrous performance during covid, with NRW's education minister Gebauer being the most obvious example. They may have gained some people from the AfD, but lost so much more instead. Basically the FDP is now learning the hard way what Söder's CSU learned after the clusterfuck in the 2018 Bavarian elections: copying the far-right and ultra-libertarian demands may earn you some votes from there, but alienate so much more of the moderate vote that it can even threaten your existence. Germany is not the US - ultra-libertarian attitudes may give you applause from Twitter crowds but not from voters. > and "reasonable measures" - what a funny moment to write that nonsense. The FDP vetoed anything to reasonably deal with the pandemic - they were the reason tests were cut down, they are even opposed to mask mandates, and forget about a vaccination mandate.
    - 2-718-281-828 4y ago
      every region can declare itself a hotspot and make masks mandatory. beyond that they don't serve any purpose except being a nuisance.
coffeebeanHH 4y ago
Yes, but... Basically other parties aren't that different. In the end it doesn't matter which color of the rainbow, or black, is going to fuck the people.
- hans1729 4y ago
  The SPD brands itself as social, pro worker, peaceful, pragmatic and economically-focused all at the same time. They woo young voters, while their core clientel is >65. They actively make policy that works against the youth (serving their main voters, which are old), while presenting themselves as the good guys to the youth. From my point of view, this makes them pure evil, much more so than the other parties. Yes, all the parties play the power game, but not all of them have the insane level of audacity that the SPD demonstrates again and again, in every election since I'm old enough to pay attention.
  - numerik_meister 4y ago
    I could make a very strong similar argument for the Greens. They are basically light-conservatives, but they brand themselves on the left side of the spectrum.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    I know few young people who take them that seriously. My sentiment of them being a "CDU lite" (much more conservative and much less social than they act, generally not very progressive) appears to be widely shared. In their defense: They are the lesser evil. Which seems to basically be all that they run on nowadays (it's how Scholz became chancellor).
  - coffeebeanHH 4y ago
    > since I'm old enough to pay attention First of all... Hhhhh I like that! Yes I agree that the socialists lift themself way higher that they should. I think the age of their politics and voters is an effect of inheritance over decades. But it's still not a thing only the socialists have. The right wing sort of has the same. Specially the christians. I wouldn't even say it's a very evil thing. There are young people that are interested in politics, that's good and important. But it's by far not the most of them. I agree that it's not very smart to pretend to be a youngster or doing politics for the future generations while not even asking them what they want and need or stepping aside to let them fix their problems on their own. And honestly Scholz is very suspect and unsympathetic to me. He seemed wrong when he was major of hamburg and still I don't trust him a dime. He literally is the result of being the least garbage. At least in what the public can see. But still I don't see how the others are much different from fooling the people. The christians are corrupt, afd is a nazi party based on denial. The "democrats" only care about their own wealth. Green has internal issues with their concurring members and the deep red just burried themselves over the last years and is in huge inner conflicts as well. None of them has the motivation or will to change. It's just about getting the votes to talk bad about others and don't change a shit. Would be good to do a 80% flush. Get new and young politicians in the parliament and keep a fifth of the old ones to show the new ones around and explain how some stuff works.
Semaphor 4y ago
> Wording: Germany will not legalise Cannabis. Maybe it will be decriminalized, but there is basically no chance of legalisation (too complex/expensive of a process). Source?
- hans1729 4y ago
  I was told so from a credible source a couple years ago. What I can recall: legalisation would entail complex legal work, to a degree where that option is essentially not on the table. This is supported by the fact that "Legalisierung" is not part of the political language wrt topic, instead they refer to "Kontrollierte Abgabe" (~'controlled distribution').
  - jabiko 4y ago
    > I was told so from a credible source a couple years ago I'm not sure if you have noticed it but there where elections last year and the new coalition that formed has the legalization of cannabis as one of its official goals. Your "credible sources" might have been right a few years ago, but the political landscape has changed. > This is supported by the fact that "Legalisierung" is not part of the political language wrt topic Of course it is. The expert consolidation which is part of the creation of new law has just concluded. Now the federal ministry of health will create a draft law and publish it by the end of the year.
    - 9dev 4y ago
      Trouble is, nobody could bring the topic up right now without burning their career. Between Corona and Ukraine, trying to allocate time for the cannabis legalisation debate would simply be political suicide. And those topics will probably be present until (at least shortly before) the next election, which might see the rise of the CDU again, which will be the end of any cannabis debate whatsoever. That is what a friend of mine working in the Bundestag said.
  - andrewinardeer 4y ago
    So just because it is complex it won't get done? That sounds rather defeatist to me.
romanovcode 4y ago
> Maybe it will be decriminalized I don't know where you are from Germany but cannabis is pretty much decriminalized in Berlin already for quite some time. People buy/smoke at the streets and police does not mind.
- hans1729 4y ago
  I am. Berlin and Germany are in a special relationship, I'll leave colorful elaborations to others :-)
  - maxhille 4y ago
    AFAIK (from Hamburg) Cannabis is decriminalized everywhere except Bavaria.
- abbbi 4y ago
  still, you will lose your drivers license. I dont care if it is decriminalized, if i get pulled over and lose my license becuause i used to smoke 4 days ago, theres something wrong. I think this is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome: how to deal with cosumption in regards to roadworthiness
  - hans1729 4y ago
    >Roadworthiness or streetworthiness is a property or ability of a car, bus, truck or any kind of automobile to be in a suitable operating condition or meeting acceptable standards for safe driving and transport of people, baggage or cargo in roads or streets, being therefore street-legal. TIL ;)
  - romanovcode 4y ago
    True, I know a guy from Berlin who had exactly same situation. I wonder if you can call a lawyer and refuse to give your hair/urine in this case.
    - gallexme 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago

Agreed on the idiocy of the SPD ("wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten")... but this time, the Justice Ministry belongs to the FDP. They have alienated an awful lot of voters with their effective denial of reasonable covid measures, they'd be completely done for if they would not manage to get cannabis legal-ish enough that people can buy cannabis products in stores and smoke on the streets without fearing arrest. We have elections in Bavaria and Hessen in 2023, the FDP will need at least something to show off, and cannabis is the easiest thing to pass, particularly as the Greens and parts of the SPD have long fought for it.

hans1729 4y ago
advocatus diaboli: the FDP has a long track record of advocating for legalisation and then voting against it or abstain in parliamentary elections. Their core clientel are small business owners and (other) anti-regulation folk, I strongly doubt that they lose big margins of voters due to their covid policy, maybe even the opposite is the case. Point being: if the FDP is the reason to have faith in this, I'm not feeling much more confident than before.
2-718-281-828 4y ago
> They have alienated an awful lot of voters with their effective denial of reasonable covid measures they also won a number of sympathizers ... and "reasonable measures" - what a funny moment to write that nonsense.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > they also won a number of sympathizers LOL, they lost massively in all elections since the Bundestagswahl - mostly because of their disastrous performance during covid, with NRW's education minister Gebauer being the most obvious example. They may have gained some people from the AfD, but lost so much more instead. Basically the FDP is now learning the hard way what Söder's CSU learned after the clusterfuck in the 2018 Bavarian elections: copying the far-right and ultra-libertarian demands may earn you some votes from there, but alienate so much more of the moderate vote that it can even threaten your existence. Germany is not the US - ultra-libertarian attitudes may give you applause from Twitter crowds but not from voters. > and "reasonable measures" - what a funny moment to write that nonsense. The FDP vetoed anything to reasonably deal with the pandemic - they were the reason tests were cut down, they are even opposed to mask mandates, and forget about a vaccination mandate.
  - 2-718-281-828 4y ago
    every region can declare itself a hotspot and make masks mandatory. beyond that they don't serve any purpose except being a nuisance.

coffeebeanHH 4y ago

Yes, but... Basically other parties aren't that different. In the end it doesn't matter which color of the rainbow, or black, is going to fuck the people.

hans1729 4y ago
The SPD brands itself as social, pro worker, peaceful, pragmatic and economically-focused all at the same time. They woo young voters, while their core clientel is >65. They actively make policy that works against the youth (serving their main voters, which are old), while presenting themselves as the good guys to the youth. From my point of view, this makes them pure evil, much more so than the other parties. Yes, all the parties play the power game, but not all of them have the insane level of audacity that the SPD demonstrates again and again, in every election since I'm old enough to pay attention.
- numerik_meister 4y ago
  I could make a very strong similar argument for the Greens. They are basically light-conservatives, but they brand themselves on the left side of the spectrum.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  I know few young people who take them that seriously. My sentiment of them being a "CDU lite" (much more conservative and much less social than they act, generally not very progressive) appears to be widely shared. In their defense: They are the lesser evil. Which seems to basically be all that they run on nowadays (it's how Scholz became chancellor).
- coffeebeanHH 4y ago
  > since I'm old enough to pay attention First of all... Hhhhh I like that! Yes I agree that the socialists lift themself way higher that they should. I think the age of their politics and voters is an effect of inheritance over decades. But it's still not a thing only the socialists have. The right wing sort of has the same. Specially the christians. I wouldn't even say it's a very evil thing. There are young people that are interested in politics, that's good and important. But it's by far not the most of them. I agree that it's not very smart to pretend to be a youngster or doing politics for the future generations while not even asking them what they want and need or stepping aside to let them fix their problems on their own. And honestly Scholz is very suspect and unsympathetic to me. He seemed wrong when he was major of hamburg and still I don't trust him a dime. He literally is the result of being the least garbage. At least in what the public can see. But still I don't see how the others are much different from fooling the people. The christians are corrupt, afd is a nazi party based on denial. The "democrats" only care about their own wealth. Green has internal issues with their concurring members and the deep red just burried themselves over the last years and is in huge inner conflicts as well. None of them has the motivation or will to change. It's just about getting the votes to talk bad about others and don't change a shit. Would be good to do a 80% flush. Get new and young politicians in the parliament and keep a fifth of the old ones to show the new ones around and explain how some stuff works.

Semaphor 4y ago

> Wording: Germany will not legalise Cannabis. Maybe it will be decriminalized, but there is basically no chance of legalisation (too complex/expensive of a process). Source?

hans1729 4y ago
I was told so from a credible source a couple years ago. What I can recall: legalisation would entail complex legal work, to a degree where that option is essentially not on the table. This is supported by the fact that "Legalisierung" is not part of the political language wrt topic, instead they refer to "Kontrollierte Abgabe" (~'controlled distribution').
- jabiko 4y ago
  > I was told so from a credible source a couple years ago I'm not sure if you have noticed it but there where elections last year and the new coalition that formed has the legalization of cannabis as one of its official goals. Your "credible sources" might have been right a few years ago, but the political landscape has changed. > This is supported by the fact that "Legalisierung" is not part of the political language wrt topic Of course it is. The expert consolidation which is part of the creation of new law has just concluded. Now the federal ministry of health will create a draft law and publish it by the end of the year.
  - 9dev 4y ago
    Trouble is, nobody could bring the topic up right now without burning their career. Between Corona and Ukraine, trying to allocate time for the cannabis legalisation debate would simply be political suicide. And those topics will probably be present until (at least shortly before) the next election, which might see the rise of the CDU again, which will be the end of any cannabis debate whatsoever. That is what a friend of mine working in the Bundestag said.
- andrewinardeer 4y ago
  So just because it is complex it won't get done? That sounds rather defeatist to me.

romanovcode 4y ago

> Maybe it will be decriminalized I don't know where you are from Germany but cannabis is pretty much decriminalized in Berlin already for quite some time. People buy/smoke at the streets and police does not mind.

hans1729 4y ago
I am. Berlin and Germany are in a special relationship, I'll leave colorful elaborations to others :-)
- maxhille 4y ago
  AFAIK (from Hamburg) Cannabis is decriminalized everywhere except Bavaria.
abbbi 4y ago
still, you will lose your drivers license. I dont care if it is decriminalized, if i get pulled over and lose my license becuause i used to smoke 4 days ago, theres something wrong. I think this is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome: how to deal with cosumption in regards to roadworthiness
- hans1729 4y ago
  >Roadworthiness or streetworthiness is a property or ability of a car, bus, truck or any kind of automobile to be in a suitable operating condition or meeting acceptable standards for safe driving and transport of people, baggage or cargo in roads or streets, being therefore street-legal. TIL ;)
- romanovcode 4y ago
  True, I know a guy from Berlin who had exactly same situation. I wonder if you can call a lawyer and refuse to give your hair/urine in this case.
  - gallexme 4y ago