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I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in negative side effects, some being permanent [1]. Let's see how it'll work out. I also think it's quite funny that the German meme "Bubatz" has made it into the highest levels of our government. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/

hef19898 4y ago
One of the benefits of legalization is the possibility to properly regulate the product. If it's black market it's an uncontrolled free for all.
mojzu 4y ago
I think legalisation could help in this regard as long as companies are required to measure/label products appropriately. Similar to how the most popular alcohols during prohibition were spirits, whereas now there's a massive range of drinks at pretty much any alcoholic percentage you want
BrianOnHN 4y ago
- frereubu 4y ago
  I don't really understand how talk about increasing THC levels plays into racism, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding - can you elaborate?
- dpbriggs 4y ago
  Racist? Could you elaborate? It's a public health concern as people are getting addicted.
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    You also misread. The other stuff is the racist part. This part, "rising potency", is just a predictable effect of prohibition and "change of literally anything" causes Fear in the noobs. Wake. Up. People.
    - dpbriggs 4y ago
      That could be the an explanation for only having high potency weed in areas where it's prohibited, but it's equally available here in Canada where it's legal. I think people just like it.
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        Because all the Canadian weed stays there. Right...
        dpbriggs 4y ago
        I don't think that makes sense? What are you attempting to communicate? I'm saying that high potency products are still sold in legalized areas as there's demand for it. I remember having issues years ago finding low but not non-zero THC products on the government website. I had to get 17% which is still high. Things may be different now.
        frereubu 4y ago
        With respect, it sounds like you're having a bad day, and it's coming over as if you want a fight. I agree with you that prohibition causes all kinds of undesirable effects - including yet another route for racism to express itself - but you need to use more temperate language if you want a substantive discussion.
kennyadam 4y ago
Strongly agree. As the THC percentage has increased, so has my anxiety when I smoke it. If I go out of my way to find lower quality weed, I enjoy it much more.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  Hopefully the canabis producers will see the low (by todays standards) THC level weed as having its own niche and market it accordingly. Like 'light beer'.
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    I wonder how alcohol would look of people were so incompetent that they would drink vodka by the pint, like beer! Seriously, if you smoke a joint of high-grade then you're doing it wrong.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      High-grade joints are a popular product in Canada
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        Source?
        wahnfrieden 4y ago
        you can look it up yourself
        BrianOnHN 4y ago
        wahnfrieden 4y ago
mschuster91 4y ago
> I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. The trick is to educate consumers. And yes today's pot is way stronger than what people used to smoke back in the 80s, but people also don't smoke a handful of joints but one or two... for me, that argument is a bit of a scapegoat.
frereubu 4y ago
I remember this happening even during the mid-1990s while I was at university. At the beginning there would be a lot more giggling after smoking, but as things like skunk started replacing the milder stuff it evolved into a more stupefied feeling. I stopped smoking weed soon afterwards as I couldn't seem to get hold of the lighter strains and hated the feeling of the stronger ones. [Edited to remove a badly-worded piece of anecdata that probably wasn't pertinent].
wishfish 4y ago
Do weed shops in legal states not have "light" options? Seems weird if they didn't, but I guess that might be a side effect of recent legalization. That the heavy stuff sells better to consumers who used to take whatever they could find back in the black market days. Anyways, I'm asking because I unfortunately live in a state where it's still illegal.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
  Generally they do not. The ones that are also medical dispensaries are more likely to but it isn’t a guarantee.
  - hobs 4y ago
    Most California dispensaries I have been to absolutely have low dosage 5mg options, they also stock 100mg options, but stores listen to the market and stock based on what they can get and what people want. It was very typical to see older folks and very light smokers to request the smaller dosages. They also seemed to trend towards vapes in the younger lighter smokers because the dosage can be fairly small.
    - pcthrowaway 4y ago
      Yeah, I've bought weed in Cali once, didn't have any problem at all finding CBD strains which are low THC (most would consider it trace amounts). Finding a strain with 0 THC (since I'm pretty sensitive and don't enjoy THC at all) is a bit harder.
      - hobs 4y ago
        Yeah, that would definitely be difficult, as far as I saw you could get CBD powder at various places if you wanted to just add a little to a drink or do a dab.
      - samatman 4y ago
        The good news is, since 0 THC strains are legal everywhere in the US, you can just buy them online. They don't show up in dispensaries much, because why go through all the hassle to meet regulations on a product which doesn't have to meet those regulations, unless they're being sold at a dispensary?
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Maybe a stupid question but are there any cannabis variants which are agreed on as the 'wild'/ original cannabis? I can see that being used by sellers as a marketing claim for health benefits in a not so distant future?
- thebeastie 4y ago
  There are, they are called “landraces”, but you have the problem of replicating the original genetics with a dwindling / deteriorating supply of old seeds. Or if it’s not that, trusting that what you are buying is actually what it advertised.
- h2odragon 4y ago
  There's ditchweed everywhere almost. It's been influenced by domesticated varieties but after a couple years a patch will be pretty well back to "landrace" and potency will depend on how much predation and insect load it gets.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Strain called Durban Poison is supposed to be one, relatively common to find in dispensaries. I actually got some yesterday so I know what I am doing Saturday night :) Interesting read on the subject: https://dutch-passion.com/en/blog/what-are-cannabis-landrace-strains-n1006#:~:text=Landrace%20strains%20are%20the%20original,phenotypes%20in%20the%20landrace%20strains https://dutch-passion.com/en/blog/what-are-cannabis-landrace....
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numerik_meister 4y ago
- darkerside 4y ago
  s/*/That's interesting. I've never thought about what positive effects there might be. Can you expand?/g
  - numerik_meister 4y ago
    I did not intend to ask a question. I know for sure that a lot of potheads really want to push their recreational drug as a miracle do all drug, while ignoring all the negative effects. The negative effects are well documented science. The positive effects are all vaporous claims from questionable studies. Really goes to show the objectivity of HN, that I get downvoted for this.
    - lbotos 4y ago
      You are getting downvoted for your dogmatic and set in your ways views. HN is a place for curiosity and your responses are not increasing curiosity they are closing it off.
      - numerik_meister 4y ago
        I have read the countless studies blog spammed on Reddit and HN for the past 15 years, and formed my opinion accordingly. How is that at all dogmatic?
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      It's worth noting that almost all medicinal drugs have negative effects. Certainly there are people who promote cannabis as a cure-all, and that's pretty ridiculous. But it's equally ridiculous to assume that it has no medicinal uses. You even mention one (pain relief) in your comment!
    - andybak 4y ago
lucideer 4y ago
While I'm not proposing "doing nothing" about this problem, how much of this is likely to be a "hangover" from prohibition. Based on absolutely no data whatsoever, my instinct would be that demand for high-THC/low-CBD products would decrease as access to cannabis becomes less novel.
- deleted 4y ago
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- nerdponx 4y ago
  My intuition is similar, especially as older and less "drug oriented" users continue to enter the market. In Massachusetts, a lot of dispensaries show the THC level, and I usually just buy the one with the lowest content.
- jgtrosh 4y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ > without any clear guidelines or regulations from government officials, the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book and developed strains of marijuana and concentrated marijuana products with much higher concentrations of THC, the psychoactive component that causes addiction. The more potent a drug is, the stronger the possibility of addiction and the more likely the person will continue to purchase and use the product. Doesn't seem like there's any incentive to reduce potency.
  - lucideer 4y ago
    I opened with "I'm not proposing doing nothing" - I do think measures to remediate this problem in the short term are a good idea, in line with the fears outlined in your article. Nothing in your article tackles my main point though? > the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book As a slightly off-topic aside: tobacco I'm less familiar with (I wasn't aware of efforts by the industry to grow strains of the plants with higher nicotine content but it seems unsurprising), but including alcohol here is bizarre. Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process. And even then, maybe they're talking about distillation, but that process predates the industrial revolution by 100s maybe 1000s of years. Tbh this throwaway statement kinda makes me question the article...
snarfy 4y ago
When I lived in Arizona before it was legal, the vast majority of weed came from Mexico. A quarter pound cost $200 and was a mix of male and female plants, full of seeds, grown in fields. I was a daily user for about 20 years. I moved to coastal state where it was legal. Now it's all hydroponically grown, all female and all seedless. I was a daily user for about 12 years and had to completely stop using it. It would always help my stomach if I had stomach problems, but eventually I had stomach problems daily and the only fix was more weed. It turns out the weed was the cause of and solution to all my problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndro...
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Maybe I am off, but when drawing from my 25 years of consumption and trying most of variants - outdoor, indoor, low potency, extreme dutch ones and everything in between, local hash in morocco, india and nepal, homemade milk, cookies, vaping and oil vaping; eating and oil vaping are most potent to me, joint least potent and I avoid them if possible. I don't like eating due to very long ramp up and it last for too long for casual evening, it may be great summer weekend festival item. What I want to say - even most potent oil vapes regardless of sativa/indica/cbd mix, it was just about dosage. 1 hit was a pleasant light trip, 2 was a nice strong one, 3 really strong but manageable for simple stuff. I once had 6 draws while walking in village & forest - I really went far away form this reality, hypnotizing street lights, dancing on empty streets. Couldn't trust myself which normally never ever happens on weed. It ended up OK somehow but oh boy beware. If one doesn't have any self control, it may cause issue - till it hits you fully (which is cca 5 mins with vape oil, unlike ie joint/pipe which is almost immediate), you may have already taken too much. But that would be the problem with hard alcohol too, there its more like 30 mins and we all have seen enough shitfaced folks in our lives who took too many shots too fast. So education, explanation - potency, indica/sativa mixing, literally learning consumption of cannabis and products. Its not complex but it ain't primitive linear alcohol 'high' (or more like low) regardless of type of drink. I still consider oil vapes the best product for me, chirurgically precise amount of high, very convenient, and very reproducible once you are familiar with given strain.
SomeBoolshit 4y ago
Just mix it with CBD-weed to get the overall THC content down.
hopefulengineer 4y ago
clsec 4y ago
I'll just leave these here for anyone who wants to know the truth about cannabis testing. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americas-pot-labs-have-a-thc-problem/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americas-pot-labs-have-... https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/lab-shopping-thc-inflation-marijuana-2019-leafly-review https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/lab-shopping-th...
gallexme 4y ago
I do hope they keep strong strains tho, I use a herb vape, n u love to only vape around 25mg of bud n get high, way less irritation
m0llusk 4y ago
Higher concentrations allow people to use less material. That higher concentrations cause harm is not clearly established. There are always people who will manage to misuse and hurt themselves with anything, even Hacker News.
- zug_zug 4y ago
  Yup. You can always just take 1/24th of a gummy, I know plenty of people who do that weekly at least.
krylon 4y ago
If you legalize it, you can regulate the THC content by legalizing only weed with a maximum THC concentration, and/or by taxing it based on THC levels.
humbleMouse 4y ago
peanut_worm 4y ago
You can still find lower THC cannabis at any dispensary. Most carry from 10 to 30%. Most also carry CBD flower and very low dose edibles. I also don’t understand this argument because you can just take 1 hit and be done. No one is forcing you to finish a whole joint. Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?
- standardUser 4y ago
  It's really hard to dose "1 hit". It's not like a shot of liquor. And inexperienced users are not experts at hitting pipes or vapes or joints, so that "1 hit" becomes even trickier. And if you fuck up, whoops, now you're uncomfortably high for several hours! Better to have a much wider variety of potencies available, like we have with alcohol. Especially for the casual users who have been ignored by the market because traditional dealers get most of their money from heavy users, and heavy users want the chronic.
  - TillE 4y ago
    You can literally just measure the amount of flower you're consuming before you start, either with a precise scale or by pinching out a tiny amount. Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe.
    - standardUser 4y ago
      Sure, that is something you can say to an experienced marijuana user, but the casual dude who hasn't smoked weed since college and just wants to smoke a joint... that dude just wants to smoke a joint! There is no need for scales or precision to be involved. All that is needed is some low-to-moderate-potency weed, hopefully with some CBD content. "Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe." You do realize that a lot of people don't really know how to use those devices, right? Why anyone would argue against more variety of weed with better labelling is way beyond my comprehension.
      - johnisgood 4y ago
adamsmith143 4y ago
>[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ This is an opinion piece written by a Psychiatrist. Hardly conclusive or convincing. Also focuses on teen use so not sure it has much relevance for the vast majority of users in Legal jurisdictions.
- selfmodruntime 4y ago
  In retrospect yea, my source is bad. There are certainly better ones forming the same conclusion.
noneeeed 4y ago
One option would be to tax it based on the amount of thc. Get the rates right and you could make it more profitable to produce less potent stuff.
- deleted 4y ago
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standardUser 4y ago
The solution to this is a legal marketplace. I was able to start buying lower-potency weed in California as soon as recreational stores became established. Now, I'm waiting around for the same in NY and buying weed that is way too strong in the meantime. A joint as 10-15% THC with some CBD is an entirely different experience than the 25% and up THC that most dealers sell (and that's usually all they sell).
alistairSH 4y ago
How does this apply with edibles or oils? I assume since most of those are sold with a published THC level, there's an incentive to produce stronger plant? Less plant for more edible/oil/whatever?
mensetmanusman 4y ago
It’s a hard problem because any regulations increase cost to consumers and increase the likelihood that the black market still exists. The black market is alive and well in the U.S. where it is legal.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Black markets that are already setup take a bit to knock down, and even just taxes can keep them running for years (there's a moderately strong black market for cigarettes, for example). For things that are NOT in the process of being banned entirely, sin taxes may do more harm than good.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    It does take some effort to knock down, but I think the failed war on drugs will mean that there will be little to no effort to knock anything down and therefore we will have the worst of both worlds.
Fnoord 4y ago
My aunt made her own hash oil (legally, from NL). It was for the CBD, her husband (my uncle) had cancer. She grew her own. This way, it is more or less standardized. Standardization is a problem with decriminalized and illegal drugs.
wonderwonder 4y ago
I think experienced users know how much they can smoke and are equipped to make rational decisions. I buy weed in the 15%-19% thc range. I know if I share a bowl with my wife then after that bowl we are good for whatever we want to do that night as long as we are home. I smoke far less if I am leaving the house and interacting with people, then I limit it to 2 hits off the one hitter. This is because of experience though, I know my limits and what I am attempting to accomplish. The issue is individuals who equate weed with a harmless drug. It is harmless in that you are virtually guaranteed not to die from it but if you over do it things can be rough. Never understood why people feel the need to start with 3 or 4 hits of something they have never tried before. Take a hit, relax. See how you do. If its your first time, then that's it, next time depending on your experience try 2 hits. No need to start at maximum. You need the slow increases over days to understand your limits, experience comes with time. Its like trying alcohol for the first time, taking a shot of everclear and 5 minutes later deciding it had no effect so you take another shot. Its not a good idea.
- deleted 4y ago
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augstein 4y ago
I would recommend to consume only low THC + high CBD strains.(1) For me the difference of these strains to some of the modern high THC + low CBD ones is comparable to drinking a good glass of wine versus chugging down some highly potent moonshine. Some moderns strains are completely overbred and dangerous to some people in my experience.(2) Knowing the Germans, I‘m optimistic, they‘ll regulate it properly, so that everything you will be able to buy legally, should be quite safe. 1) https://greatist.com/health/high-cbd-low-thc#_noHeaderPrefixedContent https://greatist.com/health/high-cbd-low-thc#_noHeaderPrefix... 2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_synd...

hef19898 4y ago

One of the benefits of legalization is the possibility to properly regulate the product. If it's black market it's an uncontrolled free for all.

mojzu 4y ago

I think legalisation could help in this regard as long as companies are required to measure/label products appropriately. Similar to how the most popular alcohols during prohibition were spirits, whereas now there's a massive range of drinks at pretty much any alcoholic percentage you want

BrianOnHN 4y ago

frereubu 4y ago
I don't really understand how talk about increasing THC levels plays into racism, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding - can you elaborate?
dpbriggs 4y ago
Racist? Could you elaborate? It's a public health concern as people are getting addicted.
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  You also misread. The other stuff is the racist part. This part, "rising potency", is just a predictable effect of prohibition and "change of literally anything" causes Fear in the noobs. Wake. Up. People.
  - dpbriggs 4y ago
    That could be the an explanation for only having high potency weed in areas where it's prohibited, but it's equally available here in Canada where it's legal. I think people just like it.
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      Because all the Canadian weed stays there. Right...
      - dpbriggs 4y ago
        I don't think that makes sense? What are you attempting to communicate? I'm saying that high potency products are still sold in legalized areas as there's demand for it. I remember having issues years ago finding low but not non-zero THC products on the government website. I had to get 17% which is still high. Things may be different now.
      - frereubu 4y ago
        With respect, it sounds like you're having a bad day, and it's coming over as if you want a fight. I agree with you that prohibition causes all kinds of undesirable effects - including yet another route for racism to express itself - but you need to use more temperate language if you want a substantive discussion.

kennyadam 4y ago

Strongly agree. As the THC percentage has increased, so has my anxiety when I smoke it. If I go out of my way to find lower quality weed, I enjoy it much more.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
Hopefully the canabis producers will see the low (by todays standards) THC level weed as having its own niche and market it accordingly. Like 'light beer'.
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  I wonder how alcohol would look of people were so incompetent that they would drink vodka by the pint, like beer! Seriously, if you smoke a joint of high-grade then you're doing it wrong.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    High-grade joints are a popular product in Canada
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      Source?
      - wahnfrieden 4y ago
        you can look it up yourself
        BrianOnHN 4y ago
        wahnfrieden 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago

> I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. The trick is to educate consumers. And yes today's pot is way stronger than what people used to smoke back in the 80s, but people also don't smoke a handful of joints but one or two... for me, that argument is a bit of a scapegoat.

frereubu 4y ago

I remember this happening even during the mid-1990s while I was at university. At the beginning there would be a lot more giggling after smoking, but as things like skunk started replacing the milder stuff it evolved into a more stupefied feeling. I stopped smoking weed soon afterwards as I couldn't seem to get hold of the lighter strains and hated the feeling of the stronger ones. [Edited to remove a badly-worded piece of anecdata that probably wasn't pertinent].

wishfish 4y ago

Do weed shops in legal states not have "light" options? Seems weird if they didn't, but I guess that might be a side effect of recent legalization. That the heavy stuff sells better to consumers who used to take whatever they could find back in the black market days. Anyways, I'm asking because I unfortunately live in a state where it's still illegal.

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
Generally they do not. The ones that are also medical dispensaries are more likely to but it isn’t a guarantee.
- hobs 4y ago
  Most California dispensaries I have been to absolutely have low dosage 5mg options, they also stock 100mg options, but stores listen to the market and stock based on what they can get and what people want. It was very typical to see older folks and very light smokers to request the smaller dosages. They also seemed to trend towards vapes in the younger lighter smokers because the dosage can be fairly small.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    Yeah, I've bought weed in Cali once, didn't have any problem at all finding CBD strains which are low THC (most would consider it trace amounts). Finding a strain with 0 THC (since I'm pretty sensitive and don't enjoy THC at all) is a bit harder.
    - hobs 4y ago
      Yeah, that would definitely be difficult, as far as I saw you could get CBD powder at various places if you wanted to just add a little to a drink or do a dab.
    - samatman 4y ago
      The good news is, since 0 THC strains are legal everywhere in the US, you can just buy them online. They don't show up in dispensaries much, because why go through all the hassle to meet regulations on a product which doesn't have to meet those regulations, unless they're being sold at a dispensary?

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

Maybe a stupid question but are there any cannabis variants which are agreed on as the 'wild'/ original cannabis? I can see that being used by sellers as a marketing claim for health benefits in a not so distant future?

thebeastie 4y ago
There are, they are called “landraces”, but you have the problem of replicating the original genetics with a dwindling / deteriorating supply of old seeds. Or if it’s not that, trusting that what you are buying is actually what it advertised.
h2odragon 4y ago
There's ditchweed everywhere almost. It's been influenced by domesticated varieties but after a couple years a patch will be pretty well back to "landrace" and potency will depend on how much predation and insect load it gets.
wonderwonder 4y ago
Strain called Durban Poison is supposed to be one, relatively common to find in dispensaries. I actually got some yesterday so I know what I am doing Saturday night :) Interesting read on the subject: https://dutch-passion.com/en/blog/what-are-cannabis-landrace-strains-n1006#:~:text=Landrace%20strains%20are%20the%20original,phenotypes%20in%20the%20landrace%20strains https://dutch-passion.com/en/blog/what-are-cannabis-landrace....

deleted 4y ago

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numerik_meister 4y ago

darkerside 4y ago
s/*/That's interesting. I've never thought about what positive effects there might be. Can you expand?/g
- numerik_meister 4y ago
  I did not intend to ask a question. I know for sure that a lot of potheads really want to push their recreational drug as a miracle do all drug, while ignoring all the negative effects. The negative effects are well documented science. The positive effects are all vaporous claims from questionable studies. Really goes to show the objectivity of HN, that I get downvoted for this.
  - lbotos 4y ago
    You are getting downvoted for your dogmatic and set in your ways views. HN is a place for curiosity and your responses are not increasing curiosity they are closing it off.
    - numerik_meister 4y ago
      I have read the countless studies blog spammed on Reddit and HN for the past 15 years, and formed my opinion accordingly. How is that at all dogmatic?
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    It's worth noting that almost all medicinal drugs have negative effects. Certainly there are people who promote cannabis as a cure-all, and that's pretty ridiculous. But it's equally ridiculous to assume that it has no medicinal uses. You even mention one (pain relief) in your comment!
  - andybak 4y ago

lucideer 4y ago

While I'm not proposing "doing nothing" about this problem, how much of this is likely to be a "hangover" from prohibition. Based on absolutely no data whatsoever, my instinct would be that demand for high-THC/low-CBD products would decrease as access to cannabis becomes less novel.

deleted 4y ago
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nerdponx 4y ago
My intuition is similar, especially as older and less "drug oriented" users continue to enter the market. In Massachusetts, a lot of dispensaries show the THC level, and I usually just buy the one with the lowest content.
jgtrosh 4y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ > without any clear guidelines or regulations from government officials, the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book and developed strains of marijuana and concentrated marijuana products with much higher concentrations of THC, the psychoactive component that causes addiction. The more potent a drug is, the stronger the possibility of addiction and the more likely the person will continue to purchase and use the product. Doesn't seem like there's any incentive to reduce potency.
- lucideer 4y ago
  I opened with "I'm not proposing doing nothing" - I do think measures to remediate this problem in the short term are a good idea, in line with the fears outlined in your article. Nothing in your article tackles my main point though? > the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book As a slightly off-topic aside: tobacco I'm less familiar with (I wasn't aware of efforts by the industry to grow strains of the plants with higher nicotine content but it seems unsurprising), but including alcohol here is bizarre. Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process. And even then, maybe they're talking about distillation, but that process predates the industrial revolution by 100s maybe 1000s of years. Tbh this throwaway statement kinda makes me question the article...

snarfy 4y ago

When I lived in Arizona before it was legal, the vast majority of weed came from Mexico. A quarter pound cost $200 and was a mix of male and female plants, full of seeds, grown in fields. I was a daily user for about 20 years. I moved to coastal state where it was legal. Now it's all hydroponically grown, all female and all seedless. I was a daily user for about 12 years and had to completely stop using it. It would always help my stomach if I had stomach problems, but eventually I had stomach problems daily and the only fix was more weed. It turns out the weed was the cause of and solution to all my problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndro...

saiya-jin 4y ago
Maybe I am off, but when drawing from my 25 years of consumption and trying most of variants - outdoor, indoor, low potency, extreme dutch ones and everything in between, local hash in morocco, india and nepal, homemade milk, cookies, vaping and oil vaping; eating and oil vaping are most potent to me, joint least potent and I avoid them if possible. I don't like eating due to very long ramp up and it last for too long for casual evening, it may be great summer weekend festival item. What I want to say - even most potent oil vapes regardless of sativa/indica/cbd mix, it was just about dosage. 1 hit was a pleasant light trip, 2 was a nice strong one, 3 really strong but manageable for simple stuff. I once had 6 draws while walking in village & forest - I really went far away form this reality, hypnotizing street lights, dancing on empty streets. Couldn't trust myself which normally never ever happens on weed. It ended up OK somehow but oh boy beware. If one doesn't have any self control, it may cause issue - till it hits you fully (which is cca 5 mins with vape oil, unlike ie joint/pipe which is almost immediate), you may have already taken too much. But that would be the problem with hard alcohol too, there its more like 30 mins and we all have seen enough shitfaced folks in our lives who took too many shots too fast. So education, explanation - potency, indica/sativa mixing, literally learning consumption of cannabis and products. Its not complex but it ain't primitive linear alcohol 'high' (or more like low) regardless of type of drink. I still consider oil vapes the best product for me, chirurgically precise amount of high, very convenient, and very reproducible once you are familiar with given strain.

SomeBoolshit 4y ago

Just mix it with CBD-weed to get the overall THC content down.

hopefulengineer 4y ago

clsec 4y ago

I'll just leave these here for anyone who wants to know the truth about cannabis testing. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americas-pot-labs-have-a-thc-problem/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americas-pot-labs-have-... https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/lab-shopping-thc-inflation-marijuana-2019-leafly-review https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/lab-shopping-th...

gallexme 4y ago

I do hope they keep strong strains tho, I use a herb vape, n u love to only vape around 25mg of bud n get high, way less irritation

m0llusk 4y ago

Higher concentrations allow people to use less material. That higher concentrations cause harm is not clearly established. There are always people who will manage to misuse and hurt themselves with anything, even Hacker News.

zug_zug 4y ago
Yup. You can always just take 1/24th of a gummy, I know plenty of people who do that weekly at least.

krylon 4y ago

If you legalize it, you can regulate the THC content by legalizing only weed with a maximum THC concentration, and/or by taxing it based on THC levels.

humbleMouse 4y ago

peanut_worm 4y ago

You can still find lower THC cannabis at any dispensary. Most carry from 10 to 30%. Most also carry CBD flower and very low dose edibles. I also don’t understand this argument because you can just take 1 hit and be done. No one is forcing you to finish a whole joint. Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?

standardUser 4y ago
It's really hard to dose "1 hit". It's not like a shot of liquor. And inexperienced users are not experts at hitting pipes or vapes or joints, so that "1 hit" becomes even trickier. And if you fuck up, whoops, now you're uncomfortably high for several hours! Better to have a much wider variety of potencies available, like we have with alcohol. Especially for the casual users who have been ignored by the market because traditional dealers get most of their money from heavy users, and heavy users want the chronic.
- TillE 4y ago
  You can literally just measure the amount of flower you're consuming before you start, either with a precise scale or by pinching out a tiny amount. Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe.
  - standardUser 4y ago
    Sure, that is something you can say to an experienced marijuana user, but the casual dude who hasn't smoked weed since college and just wants to smoke a joint... that dude just wants to smoke a joint! There is no need for scales or precision to be involved. All that is needed is some low-to-moderate-potency weed, hopefully with some CBD content. "Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe." You do realize that a lot of people don't really know how to use those devices, right? Why anyone would argue against more variety of weed with better labelling is way beyond my comprehension.
    - johnisgood 4y ago

adamsmith143 4y ago

>[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/ This is an opinion piece written by a Psychiatrist. Hardly conclusive or convincing. Also focuses on teen use so not sure it has much relevance for the vast majority of users in Legal jurisdictions.

selfmodruntime 4y ago
In retrospect yea, my source is bad. There are certainly better ones forming the same conclusion.

noneeeed 4y ago

One option would be to tax it based on the amount of thc. Get the rates right and you could make it more profitable to produce less potent stuff.

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standardUser 4y ago

The solution to this is a legal marketplace. I was able to start buying lower-potency weed in California as soon as recreational stores became established. Now, I'm waiting around for the same in NY and buying weed that is way too strong in the meantime. A joint as 10-15% THC with some CBD is an entirely different experience than the 25% and up THC that most dealers sell (and that's usually all they sell).

alistairSH 4y ago

How does this apply with edibles or oils? I assume since most of those are sold with a published THC level, there's an incentive to produce stronger plant? Less plant for more edible/oil/whatever?

mensetmanusman 4y ago

It’s a hard problem because any regulations increase cost to consumers and increase the likelihood that the black market still exists. The black market is alive and well in the U.S. where it is legal.

bombcar 4y ago
Black markets that are already setup take a bit to knock down, and even just taxes can keep them running for years (there's a moderately strong black market for cigarettes, for example). For things that are NOT in the process of being banned entirely, sin taxes may do more harm than good.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  It does take some effort to knock down, but I think the failed war on drugs will mean that there will be little to no effort to knock anything down and therefore we will have the worst of both worlds.

Fnoord 4y ago

My aunt made her own hash oil (legally, from NL). It was for the CBD, her husband (my uncle) had cancer. She grew her own. This way, it is more or less standardized. Standardization is a problem with decriminalized and illegal drugs.

wonderwonder 4y ago

I think experienced users know how much they can smoke and are equipped to make rational decisions. I buy weed in the 15%-19% thc range. I know if I share a bowl with my wife then after that bowl we are good for whatever we want to do that night as long as we are home. I smoke far less if I am leaving the house and interacting with people, then I limit it to 2 hits off the one hitter. This is because of experience though, I know my limits and what I am attempting to accomplish. The issue is individuals who equate weed with a harmless drug. It is harmless in that you are virtually guaranteed not to die from it but if you over do it things can be rough. Never understood why people feel the need to start with 3 or 4 hits of something they have never tried before. Take a hit, relax. See how you do. If its your first time, then that's it, next time depending on your experience try 2 hits. No need to start at maximum. You need the slow increases over days to understand your limits, experience comes with time. Its like trying alcohol for the first time, taking a shot of everclear and 5 minutes later deciding it had no effect so you take another shot. Its not a good idea.

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augstein 4y ago

I would recommend to consume only low THC + high CBD strains.(1) For me the difference of these strains to some of the modern high THC + low CBD ones is comparable to drinking a good glass of wine versus chugging down some highly potent moonshine. Some moderns strains are completely overbred and dangerous to some people in my experience.(2) Knowing the Germans, I‘m optimistic, they‘ll regulate it properly, so that everything you will be able to buy legally, should be quite safe. 1) https://greatist.com/health/high-cbd-low-thc#_noHeaderPrefixedContent https://greatist.com/health/high-cbd-low-thc#_noHeaderPrefix... 2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_synd...