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> glorified CRUD message board features faster I think this comment says more about you than anything. If you look into Meta's tech stack they have challenges

> glorified CRUD message board features faster I think this comment says more about you than anything. If you look into Meta's tech stack they have challenges no company on the planet has and clearly a lot of talent. Having just played with CacheLib it's an impressive project and yet to see an equivalent anywhere else. And I imagine much of what they do is like this when you're operating at their extremes.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
water-your-self 4y ago
Hardly. A lot of what they do is likely filibuster.
boredtofears 4y ago
Like I said in my original comment: I'm sure there are a ton of interesting jobs at meta, no doubt - but they are the "meta" jobs of meta. In terms of driving their primary objective it's nothing that innovative from a technical perspective. Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. Not self-driving cars, not better medical devices, not VR technology (well, OK, they bought their way into that). The prime directive at facebook is to keep people on facebook. They've definitely been responsible for pushing web technologies forward -- but all in the name of increased engagement. Let's not pretend there is an altruistic angle to this.
- savolai 4y ago
  No, it doesn't seem like they're doing much to alleviate the damage to society they've done. Still your comment seems rather cynical. Yet, relative to the age of humanity or even modern society, they are still a new modality to humanity's interaction. One that facilitates also a lot of good that's happening in the world. There is still a ton they could do right if they chose to, to make that environment for communication a healthier one. Could they find willingness to reroot their design choices in a wider tradition of social psychology, for instance?
  - unclebucknasty 4y ago
    >Still your comment seems rather cynical. Your first paragraph points out the damage FB has done to society. Your second paragraph appears to give them a pass because social media is "new" and has also done some good. Your third paragraph tacitly gives FB credit for the things they could do right if they chose to. Perhaps you're not cynical enough?
- EndorphinRush 4y ago
  Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. I’m not a fan of Facebook. I don’t even have an account. But it would be unfair to say they haven’t come up with some truly innovative approaches to large scale infrastructure. Also, to their credit they are huge supporters of open source. For example the Open Compute Project is still alive and well in large data halls. They are also still supporting the Telecom Infra Project which is responsible for OpenRAN as well as their Open DWDM hardware. Does all of this work in their favor to support their own business? Absolutely. But that can also be said for every tech company in some form or fashion. But, they still open source it which is way more than a lot of other shops can say.
  - chii 4y ago
    > Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. i think the poster meant 'business model' rather than innovation. Having an immoral business model doesn't imply they are not innovative - facebook does plenty of technical innovation indeed.
  - rfw300 4y ago
    I think the point is that Facebook's contribution to society (with its actual product, not its tech work) has been negative; its goal is to turn every knob it can find to get people to spend more time on Facebook, not actually solve any problems. All businesses are selfish, but some manage to meaningfully improve some aspect of people's lives along the way.
colinmhayes 4y ago
Issa joke
papito 4y ago
There is no denying that there is some interesting "engineering exhaust" coming from Facebook, side and passion projects developed on company time that are genuinely interesting and in ways industry-changing (React), but that is driven by devs and not the company. That is almost expected from a FAANG, where they have enough money to let that happen. Now, I bet, things will be different. You won't just be able to "do your own thing". Say ello to KPIs.
- FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
  Exactly this. The historical value of tech companies was that they provided safe, stable employment that gave employees enough slack to do things of value to society while tending to the profit engine. As these companies have evolved instead towards tightly-managed, low-slack organizations focused on KPIs, they now actively (and coercively) divert talent and attention from the "exhaust" that had been the positive externality. In this new state they become an active drain on society.
FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
CacheLib appears to be a library that's useful to large centralized organizations that control large numbers of servers. So it is probably not value-neutral, but a force for increasing social centralization. "Scale" is fundamentally authoritarian, and it necessitates hierarchies of domination within abusive corporate structures. Imagine what the engineer capable of writing CacheLib would have done instead, had they not worked for Facebook.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

water-your-self 4y ago

Hardly. A lot of what they do is likely filibuster.

boredtofears 4y ago

Like I said in my original comment: I'm sure there are a ton of interesting jobs at meta, no doubt - but they are the "meta" jobs of meta. In terms of driving their primary objective it's nothing that innovative from a technical perspective. Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. Not self-driving cars, not better medical devices, not VR technology (well, OK, they bought their way into that). The prime directive at facebook is to keep people on facebook. They've definitely been responsible for pushing web technologies forward -- but all in the name of increased engagement. Let's not pretend there is an altruistic angle to this.

savolai 4y ago
No, it doesn't seem like they're doing much to alleviate the damage to society they've done. Still your comment seems rather cynical. Yet, relative to the age of humanity or even modern society, they are still a new modality to humanity's interaction. One that facilitates also a lot of good that's happening in the world. There is still a ton they could do right if they chose to, to make that environment for communication a healthier one. Could they find willingness to reroot their design choices in a wider tradition of social psychology, for instance?
- unclebucknasty 4y ago
  >Still your comment seems rather cynical. Your first paragraph points out the damage FB has done to society. Your second paragraph appears to give them a pass because social media is "new" and has also done some good. Your third paragraph tacitly gives FB credit for the things they could do right if they chose to. Perhaps you're not cynical enough?
EndorphinRush 4y ago
Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. I’m not a fan of Facebook. I don’t even have an account. But it would be unfair to say they haven’t come up with some truly innovative approaches to large scale infrastructure. Also, to their credit they are huge supporters of open source. For example the Open Compute Project is still alive and well in large data halls. They are also still supporting the Telecom Infra Project which is responsible for OpenRAN as well as their Open DWDM hardware. Does all of this work in their favor to support their own business? Absolutely. But that can also be said for every tech company in some form or fashion. But, they still open source it which is way more than a lot of other shops can say.
- chii 4y ago
  > Their innovation is solely rooted in behavioral psychology. i think the poster meant 'business model' rather than innovation. Having an immoral business model doesn't imply they are not innovative - facebook does plenty of technical innovation indeed.
- rfw300 4y ago
  I think the point is that Facebook's contribution to society (with its actual product, not its tech work) has been negative; its goal is to turn every knob it can find to get people to spend more time on Facebook, not actually solve any problems. All businesses are selfish, but some manage to meaningfully improve some aspect of people's lives along the way.

colinmhayes 4y ago

Issa joke

papito 4y ago

There is no denying that there is some interesting "engineering exhaust" coming from Facebook, side and passion projects developed on company time that are genuinely interesting and in ways industry-changing (React), but that is driven by devs and not the company. That is almost expected from a FAANG, where they have enough money to let that happen. Now, I bet, things will be different. You won't just be able to "do your own thing". Say ello to KPIs.

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
Exactly this. The historical value of tech companies was that they provided safe, stable employment that gave employees enough slack to do things of value to society while tending to the profit engine. As these companies have evolved instead towards tightly-managed, low-slack organizations focused on KPIs, they now actively (and coercively) divert talent and attention from the "exhaust" that had been the positive externality. In this new state they become an active drain on society.

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago

CacheLib appears to be a library that's useful to large centralized organizations that control large numbers of servers. So it is probably not value-neutral, but a force for increasing social centralization. "Scale" is fundamentally authoritarian, and it necessitates hierarchies of domination within abusive corporate structures. Imagine what the engineer capable of writing CacheLib would have done instead, had they not worked for Facebook.