10 ms·

Severe thermal throttling discovered in Apple's M2 MacBook Pro

123 points by djha-skin 4y ago

LegitShady 4y ago
The thermal throttling and high temps are interesting because I haven't seen it reported before. The comparisons he makes to the m1 pro - I thought the m2 was supposed to site between the m1 and m1 pro in terms of performance, so not meeting m1 pro performance is probably by design, no?
- assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  Why would you assume benevolence on Apple's part and not incompetence? Remember that time about 15 years ago when MacBook Pros were all overheating and the root cause was Apple was adding 10x the amount of thermal paste needed at the factory? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
  - jerlam 4y ago
    There's a even more recent throttling case with the 2018 MBP: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-throttling-bug-fix/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-thrott...
  - dijit 4y ago
    Sounds about the same time as nVidia shipped them GPUs and lied about their thermal envelope; causing a bunch of them to heat up the entire machine and even desolder themselves from the main board, souring the relationship between nVidia and Apple ever since. Are you sure you’re not getting them confused?
    - rasz 4y ago
      Nvidia didnt lie about TDP. Apple is famous in EE circles for running their gear as close to TjMax as possible to avoid turning up fans. 8600M had a design defect, bad composition of glue securing microbumps connecting die to package. Thermal cycling in high stress scenarios softened improperly selected underfill and broke microbumps connecting die to package. Repeated heating up can again soften the compound to release stresses and temporarily reconnect broken traces. It never fixes the main issue of broken chip. https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2011837#Problems https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2011837#Problems https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understands-bumpgate/ https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understan... >On July 2, 2009, the date being ironically a year after the notorious 8-K that publicly kicked off bumpgate, the company put up a job listing for a “DIRECTOR OF PACKAGE TECHNOLOGY”. https://notebooks.com/2008/10/10/apple-to-replace-faulty-nvidia-gpus-in-macbook-pros/ https://notebooks.com/2008/10/10/apple-to-replace-faulty-nvi... 2010 saw 820-2850 with N8 (330uF) Tantalum caps frying under the GPU. For 2011 Apple "wisely" switched to AMD and we got 820-2915 with fried AMD GPUs :) Apple is simply BAD at cooling.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    One person on SomethingAwful re-pasted their MBP (of unknown age), and saw reduced temperatures. They never said it was "overheating", Macs (and all Intel/AMD processors...) have thermal throttling so they can't "overheat", and it's normal for thermal paste to degrade within 2-3 years. It's also normal for laptops to get clogged with dust; I saw a huge reduction in temps on my MBP after I cleaned out the heatsinks, having taken the cover off and found them clogged. The person posted pictures of the original paste job from the factory. The amount of paste is not unreasonable, and what was instead evident was that the paste had dried out, which, again, is normal. That didn't stop people from overreacting and declaring a corporation (one famous for obsessively controlling its production chain) to be idiots. It did not have "10x the thermal paste needed." GamersNexus has solidly disproven the "too much paste causes overheating" myth. Excess paste just squirts out the sides, which is not a problem unless it is conductive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc What caused people to really lose their minds was a screengrab that was claimed (with no evidence whatsoever) to be from the repair manual showing wildly inappropriate levels of thermal paste being applied. The screenshot was never confirmed and given the source - again, SomethingAwful - it was almost certainly not the repair manual or factory instructions (the factory instructions wouldn't be in English, for starters...) https://www.techpowerup.com/11403/overheating-macbook-pro-mystery-solved https://www.techpowerup.com/11403/overheating-macbook-pro-my... Seems Pepperidge Farm's memory isn't as good as you thought, or you're pushing some sort of agenda.
    - watersb 4y ago
      Useless anecdotes, but I have seen specific product lines with problematic thermals that was a result of incorrect application of thermal compound. I've seen way too much thermal paste on Mac laptop boards. Not just Apple; for a while I think 2007-2010, I was seeing a number of very inexpensive desktop computers with cooked thermal compound on AMD CPUs. These observations aren't worth much, but it doesn't surprise me if a new Mac has thermal issues in the field. Although my M1 MacBook Air is the best, coolest-running machine I have ever had.
    - miles 4y ago
      > claimed (with no evidence whatsoever) to be from the repair manual showing wildly inappropriate levels of thermal paste being applied. ... the factory instructions wouldn't be in English The claim was for the service manual, not repair manual: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925 http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925 Apple used to produce detailed service manuals in English: https://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/iMac_flatpanel.pdf https://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/i... More on the overheating issue: https://paulstamatiou.com/macbook-too-hot-to-handle-literally/ https://paulstamatiou.com/macbook-too-hot-to-handle-literall...
  - Bud 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure "Apple" was not adding that thermal paste. ;)
  - asdff 4y ago
    My intel air with the latest redesigned body also throttled constantly. the cooling system wasn't adequate for a mobile ice lake chip.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- teruakohatu 4y ago
  I agree, I don't know why it is supposed to be faster than a M1 Pro. But those high temps look brutal, as does the oscillating throttle, also nobody wants a fan running full speed non-stop if possible.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  I thought the same thing, but if you keep scrolling he did do a M1 vs M2 comparison. The M1 did end up hitting 100% on the fans, but capped out at 94˚C instead of 108˚C. It also did end up throttling slightly (dropping to 21.87W from a peek of 24W). The M2 meanwhile throttles from 29.46W to 7.3W. The time comparison was M1: 21 min 40sec, M2: 19 min 40 sec. Much less than you would except given core and spec difference. So yeah, technically the one fan isn't enough for all circumstances. Is exporting 8K footage for 20 minutes of their entry-level laptop the target use-case? And if so, how much would fixing this be worth to the average end user?
  - savant_penguin 4y ago
    Idk I expect my computer to be able to run at 100% without some sort of death clock Blaming bad thermal design on "use case" does not make sense to me. If you'd like to run some intensive numerical programming on your laptop just because, I would find it outrageous for it to shutdown due to thermals. Can other hardware designers use that excuse too? "Oh your software use case is not covered by the cpu voltage regulators", "the power supply was not meant to be on all the time", "the power cable should not be connected for that long", "you should not use 90% of your ram for 4 hours straight, it was not designed for that use case" "Oh the average end user only uses the car 1h/day. This 5h long trip was not the expected use case, that's why it overheated"
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      Duty cycle- the ratio of time a component may be powered- is really quite common. Cars can only rev the engine in the red zone for a limited duration. Lasers on CNC machines, welders, engine hoists, etc. all have specific capacities that you shouldn't exceed. Expecting your CPU to run flat-out at 100% indefinitely without reprocussion seems strange to me. Heat is the great killer of electronics, and unless your rig is water cooled I don't know that I've used a laptop before with the thermal management to withstand extended full load- either it throttles down or it damages itself.
      - perryizgr8 4y ago
KennyBlanken 4y ago
The prior model 14" MBP could handle an M1 Max without thermal throttling, and that was a chip that reportedly consumes around 60W, and the M2 slots in underneath the M1 Pro. This is almost certainly a manufacturing defect specific to this, or some subset, of M2 MBP's. Looking at this guy's youtube channel, he's cranked out over six "gotcha" videos about the M2 alone. His channel is chock full of "WHAT THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU!" and "DON'T BUY UNTIL YOU WATCH THIS" clickbait nonsense. Until someone who is reputable confirms this - like Linus Tech Tips - it's a non-story.
- oynqr 4y ago
  Linus is guilty of just the same clickbait nonsense.
  - riekus 4y ago
    Don't forget his annoying clickbait open mouth thumb. Can't stand those
    - iasay 4y ago
      Blame YouTube and attention metrics for that. Neon text and stupid human cutouts on video splashes is what happens when you optimise for attention hooks. Eventually what we end up with is YouTube video lists that look like a competition for retarded peacocks trying to attract a mate. Although Linus annoys the fuck out of me anyway.
    - noir_lord 4y ago
      If you are a chrome (or descendedant) user - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clickbait-remover-for-you/omoinegiohhgbikclijaniebjpkeopip?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clickbait-remover-...
      - Diskutant 4y ago
        available for FireFox too: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/clickbait-remover-for-youtube/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/clickbait-rem... makes browsing YT sort of bearable
hedgehog 4y ago
TLDR is the M2 13" Pro is about 10% faster than the M1 13" Pro in his testing. Wait, then what's the problem? It has a poorly configured thermal management leading to oscillating power/temperature. It's pretty sloppy on Apple's part, they'll almost certainly fix it in a software update, and it's not that likely most users will run into it before then. This guy needs to hype up every issue to drive traffic for his YouTube channel, fair, but not really something I'd personally get worked up about. Edit: This kind of thing is why I don't buy a new model or upgrade to a new major OS version until 3-6 months after release when the major issues are fixed or at least known.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  So he points out a flaw and you basically dismiss him as click bait. Eh, I don't think that is very fair. He puts a lot into his youtube channel. I'm not the biggest fan but I'm not going to act like I would do a better job or what he's doing isn't making a good point.
  - hedgehog 4y ago
    "We discovered SEVERE thermal throttling with Apple's new M2 MacBook Pro, proving that it needs a BETTER cooling system with two fans instead of one." The new model hits the manufacturer's advertised performance in general, and is about 10% faster than the old model in the specific benchmark he did. The thermal porpoising is interesting but I wouldn't run around shouting about how there's some grave flaw. He does because it's part of running his business, it's not a knock on him but when stuff like this shows up on HN I figure we should have the context.
iasay 4y ago
Time will tell what this issue is but the person reporting it is leveraging controversy to get clicks here. I suspect manufacturing issue. The SSD performance problem on the 256Gb models is a massive problem though. Although after all this I'm still not sure why the M2 MBP exists. By the time it's useful it costs nearly as much as the MBP 14" for the same spec which is far superior. And if you want to cheap it out, the M1 MBA is probably a better deal because it's far cheaper and perfectly adequate.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Yeah > Export time: 21 min 40sec compared to M2: 19 min 40 sec. So, the M2 is still faster, even throttling? (Also no mention of ambient temperature, location of the device, etc)
- bebna 4y ago
  Perhaps even manipulating the fan on purpose? German reviewer group, didn't find any of such problems: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2022-M2-Laptop-Review-Debut-for-the-new-Apple-M2.631003.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2022-M2-L...
  - camgunz 4y ago
    Notebookcheck doesn't have a perf graph of sustained CPU+GPU workload, but here's their thermal analysis: > We can see a maximum package power of 35W for the M2 SoC during combined CPU/GPU load. However, this value can only be maintained for a couple of seconds before there is a drop to around 25W while the fans speed is slowly increasing. The package power will stabilize at 28-30W once the fan has reached its maximum speed, but the chip temperature is still very high at 98 °C. This means the cooling solution cannot utilize the full potential of the M2 chip, despite the fan. This suggests OP is correct.
- trollied 4y ago
  > The SSD performance problem on the 256Gb models is a massive problem though. Care to explain why? I recall the speeds are still in the order of Gigabytes a second. Who is this actually going to have a significant impact on in the real world?
lynguist 4y ago
For me it’s a non-story as I believe the main advantage of the M2 over the M1 is its 50% higher memory size (24 GB instead of 16 GB) and memory bandwidth. So if you stress all CPU and all GPU cores the same time the cooling can’t keep up. If the cooling can keep up when stressing only one of them it is enough in my opinion.
ohgodplsno 4y ago
HN: The M1/M2s are the best thing that's ever been invented in computing omg instructions per watt so good no need of a fan no cooling Also HN: dismisses a real problem of their beloved CPU hitting temperatures that would make Intel laugh Don't worry, denial is the first step to acceptance.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
torginus 4y ago
That really does not bode well for the upcoming fanless M2 Air.
- nojito 4y ago
  Why not? It's still a 10-20% performance improvement over the M1
  - kenward 4y ago
    Not to mention a nicer peripherals like the screen and keyboard. Majority of people are not purchasing a MBA for pro-grade workloads. I think the MBA meets the requirements for its niche quite nicely.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  This is irrelevant since the Air is not meant to be encoding 8K video
  - BaseballPhysics 4y ago
    > This is irrelevant since the Air is not meant to be encoding 8K video You know, I expect this kind of remark on a random twitter thread, but I'd expect folks around here to know better. The point of this test is: if you push the hardware to it's spec'd limits the cooling system is inadequate and the result is massive pulsed throttling. If your claim is "well just don't use the hardware to it's full spec'd limits", then I don't know what to say other than, that's absurd. I buy equipment expecting it to meet the specs on the tin. If it can't do that, it's defective, or Apple is lying to consumers. One or the other.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      > If your claim is "well just don't use the hardware to it's full spec'd limits", then I don't know what to say other than, that's absurd. I buy equipment expecting it to meet the specs on the tin. The spec on the tin under what circumstances? Do you except a computer to not throttle if run in 80˚C weather? Do you except a cheap car to be able to drive at its max speed non-stop (minus fuel up) for days/weeks? See the discussion elsewhere in the comments about intended usecase. Nowhere on the tin does it say that either of these computers will run at 100% power without any slowdown. Nowhere on the Air does it say that it's designed for 8K rendering. There isn't anything absurd about designing a laptop to allow for bursts of power, or even heavy sustained load on the cpu OR the gpu but not BOTH.
jshaqaw 4y ago
After my 2018 top line Intel based MacBook Pro needed weird surgery involving me stacking thermal pads onto the motherboard to remain usable (not something I was thrilled to do with my expensive machine!), Apple is guilty until proven innocent to me on laptop thermal design.

123 points by djha-skin 4y ago

The thermal throttling and high temps are interesting because I haven't seen it reported before. The comparisons he makes to the m1 pro - I thought the m2 was supposed to site between the m1 and m1 pro in terms of performance, so not meeting m1 pro performance is probably by design, no?

assttoasstmgr 4y ago
Why would you assume benevolence on Apple's part and not incompetence? Remember that time about 15 years ago when MacBook Pros were all overheating and the root cause was Apple was adding 10x the amount of thermal paste needed at the factory? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
- jerlam 4y ago
  There's a even more recent throttling case with the 2018 MBP: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-throttling-bug-fix/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-thrott...
- dijit 4y ago
  Sounds about the same time as nVidia shipped them GPUs and lied about their thermal envelope; causing a bunch of them to heat up the entire machine and even desolder themselves from the main board, souring the relationship between nVidia and Apple ever since. Are you sure you’re not getting them confused?
  - rasz 4y ago
    Nvidia didnt lie about TDP. Apple is famous in EE circles for running their gear as close to TjMax as possible to avoid turning up fans. 8600M had a design defect, bad composition of glue securing microbumps connecting die to package. Thermal cycling in high stress scenarios softened improperly selected underfill and broke microbumps connecting die to package. Repeated heating up can again soften the compound to release stresses and temporarily reconnect broken traces. It never fixes the main issue of broken chip. https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2011837#Problems https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2011837#Problems https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understands-bumpgate/ https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understan... >On July 2, 2009, the date being ironically a year after the notorious 8-K that publicly kicked off bumpgate, the company put up a job listing for a “DIRECTOR OF PACKAGE TECHNOLOGY”. https://notebooks.com/2008/10/10/apple-to-replace-faulty-nvidia-gpus-in-macbook-pros/ https://notebooks.com/2008/10/10/apple-to-replace-faulty-nvi... 2010 saw 820-2850 with N8 (330uF) Tantalum caps frying under the GPU. For 2011 Apple "wisely" switched to AMD and we got 820-2915 with fried AMD GPUs :) Apple is simply BAD at cooling.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  One person on SomethingAwful re-pasted their MBP (of unknown age), and saw reduced temperatures. They never said it was "overheating", Macs (and all Intel/AMD processors...) have thermal throttling so they can't "overheat", and it's normal for thermal paste to degrade within 2-3 years. It's also normal for laptops to get clogged with dust; I saw a huge reduction in temps on my MBP after I cleaned out the heatsinks, having taken the cover off and found them clogged. The person posted pictures of the original paste job from the factory. The amount of paste is not unreasonable, and what was instead evident was that the paste had dried out, which, again, is normal. That didn't stop people from overreacting and declaring a corporation (one famous for obsessively controlling its production chain) to be idiots. It did not have "10x the thermal paste needed." GamersNexus has solidly disproven the "too much paste causes overheating" myth. Excess paste just squirts out the sides, which is not a problem unless it is conductive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc What caused people to really lose their minds was a screengrab that was claimed (with no evidence whatsoever) to be from the repair manual showing wildly inappropriate levels of thermal paste being applied. The screenshot was never confirmed and given the source - again, SomethingAwful - it was almost certainly not the repair manual or factory instructions (the factory instructions wouldn't be in English, for starters...) https://www.techpowerup.com/11403/overheating-macbook-pro-mystery-solved https://www.techpowerup.com/11403/overheating-macbook-pro-my... Seems Pepperidge Farm's memory isn't as good as you thought, or you're pushing some sort of agenda.
  - watersb 4y ago
    Useless anecdotes, but I have seen specific product lines with problematic thermals that was a result of incorrect application of thermal compound. I've seen way too much thermal paste on Mac laptop boards. Not just Apple; for a while I think 2007-2010, I was seeing a number of very inexpensive desktop computers with cooked thermal compound on AMD CPUs. These observations aren't worth much, but it doesn't surprise me if a new Mac has thermal issues in the field. Although my M1 MacBook Air is the best, coolest-running machine I have ever had.
  - miles 4y ago
    > claimed (with no evidence whatsoever) to be from the repair manual showing wildly inappropriate levels of thermal paste being applied. ... the factory instructions wouldn't be in English The claim was for the service manual, not repair manual: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925 http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925 Apple used to produce detailed service manuals in English: https://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/iMac_flatpanel.pdf https://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/i... More on the overheating issue: https://paulstamatiou.com/macbook-too-hot-to-handle-literally/ https://paulstamatiou.com/macbook-too-hot-to-handle-literall...
- Bud 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure "Apple" was not adding that thermal paste. ;)
- asdff 4y ago
  My intel air with the latest redesigned body also throttled constantly. the cooling system wasn't adequate for a mobile ice lake chip.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
teruakohatu 4y ago
I agree, I don't know why it is supposed to be faster than a M1 Pro. But those high temps look brutal, as does the oscillating throttle, also nobody wants a fan running full speed non-stop if possible.
_aavaa_ 4y ago
I thought the same thing, but if you keep scrolling he did do a M1 vs M2 comparison. The M1 did end up hitting 100% on the fans, but capped out at 94˚C instead of 108˚C. It also did end up throttling slightly (dropping to 21.87W from a peek of 24W). The M2 meanwhile throttles from 29.46W to 7.3W. The time comparison was M1: 21 min 40sec, M2: 19 min 40 sec. Much less than you would except given core and spec difference. So yeah, technically the one fan isn't enough for all circumstances. Is exporting 8K footage for 20 minutes of their entry-level laptop the target use-case? And if so, how much would fixing this be worth to the average end user?
- savant_penguin 4y ago
  Idk I expect my computer to be able to run at 100% without some sort of death clock Blaming bad thermal design on "use case" does not make sense to me. If you'd like to run some intensive numerical programming on your laptop just because, I would find it outrageous for it to shutdown due to thermals. Can other hardware designers use that excuse too? "Oh your software use case is not covered by the cpu voltage regulators", "the power supply was not meant to be on all the time", "the power cable should not be connected for that long", "you should not use 90% of your ram for 4 hours straight, it was not designed for that use case" "Oh the average end user only uses the car 1h/day. This 5h long trip was not the expected use case, that's why it overheated"
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Duty cycle- the ratio of time a component may be powered- is really quite common. Cars can only rev the engine in the red zone for a limited duration. Lasers on CNC machines, welders, engine hoists, etc. all have specific capacities that you shouldn't exceed. Expecting your CPU to run flat-out at 100% indefinitely without reprocussion seems strange to me. Heat is the great killer of electronics, and unless your rig is water cooled I don't know that I've used a laptop before with the thermal management to withstand extended full load- either it throttles down or it damages itself.
    - perryizgr8 4y ago

KennyBlanken 4y ago

The prior model 14" MBP could handle an M1 Max without thermal throttling, and that was a chip that reportedly consumes around 60W, and the M2 slots in underneath the M1 Pro. This is almost certainly a manufacturing defect specific to this, or some subset, of M2 MBP's. Looking at this guy's youtube channel, he's cranked out over six "gotcha" videos about the M2 alone. His channel is chock full of "WHAT THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU!" and "DON'T BUY UNTIL YOU WATCH THIS" clickbait nonsense. Until someone who is reputable confirms this - like Linus Tech Tips - it's a non-story.

oynqr 4y ago
Linus is guilty of just the same clickbait nonsense.
- riekus 4y ago
  Don't forget his annoying clickbait open mouth thumb. Can't stand those
  - iasay 4y ago
    Blame YouTube and attention metrics for that. Neon text and stupid human cutouts on video splashes is what happens when you optimise for attention hooks. Eventually what we end up with is YouTube video lists that look like a competition for retarded peacocks trying to attract a mate. Although Linus annoys the fuck out of me anyway.
  - noir_lord 4y ago
    If you are a chrome (or descendedant) user - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clickbait-remover-for-you/omoinegiohhgbikclijaniebjpkeopip?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clickbait-remover-...
    - Diskutant 4y ago
      available for FireFox too: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/clickbait-remover-for-youtube/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/clickbait-rem... makes browsing YT sort of bearable

hedgehog 4y ago

TLDR is the M2 13" Pro is about 10% faster than the M1 13" Pro in his testing. Wait, then what's the problem? It has a poorly configured thermal management leading to oscillating power/temperature. It's pretty sloppy on Apple's part, they'll almost certainly fix it in a software update, and it's not that likely most users will run into it before then. This guy needs to hype up every issue to drive traffic for his YouTube channel, fair, but not really something I'd personally get worked up about. Edit: This kind of thing is why I don't buy a new model or upgrade to a new major OS version until 3-6 months after release when the major issues are fixed or at least known.

stjohnswarts 4y ago
So he points out a flaw and you basically dismiss him as click bait. Eh, I don't think that is very fair. He puts a lot into his youtube channel. I'm not the biggest fan but I'm not going to act like I would do a better job or what he's doing isn't making a good point.
- hedgehog 4y ago
  "We discovered SEVERE thermal throttling with Apple's new M2 MacBook Pro, proving that it needs a BETTER cooling system with two fans instead of one." The new model hits the manufacturer's advertised performance in general, and is about 10% faster than the old model in the specific benchmark he did. The thermal porpoising is interesting but I wouldn't run around shouting about how there's some grave flaw. He does because it's part of running his business, it's not a knock on him but when stuff like this shows up on HN I figure we should have the context.

iasay 4y ago

Time will tell what this issue is but the person reporting it is leveraging controversy to get clicks here. I suspect manufacturing issue. The SSD performance problem on the 256Gb models is a massive problem though. Although after all this I'm still not sure why the M2 MBP exists. By the time it's useful it costs nearly as much as the MBP 14" for the same spec which is far superior. And if you want to cheap it out, the M1 MBA is probably a better deal because it's far cheaper and perfectly adequate.

raverbashing 4y ago
Yeah > Export time: 21 min 40sec compared to M2: 19 min 40 sec. So, the M2 is still faster, even throttling? (Also no mention of ambient temperature, location of the device, etc)
bebna 4y ago
Perhaps even manipulating the fan on purpose? German reviewer group, didn't find any of such problems: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2022-M2-Laptop-Review-Debut-for-the-new-Apple-M2.631003.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2022-M2-L...
- camgunz 4y ago
  Notebookcheck doesn't have a perf graph of sustained CPU+GPU workload, but here's their thermal analysis: > We can see a maximum package power of 35W for the M2 SoC during combined CPU/GPU load. However, this value can only be maintained for a couple of seconds before there is a drop to around 25W while the fans speed is slowly increasing. The package power will stabilize at 28-30W once the fan has reached its maximum speed, but the chip temperature is still very high at 98 °C. This means the cooling solution cannot utilize the full potential of the M2 chip, despite the fan. This suggests OP is correct.
trollied 4y ago
> The SSD performance problem on the 256Gb models is a massive problem though. Care to explain why? I recall the speeds are still in the order of Gigabytes a second. Who is this actually going to have a significant impact on in the real world?

lynguist 4y ago

For me it’s a non-story as I believe the main advantage of the M2 over the M1 is its 50% higher memory size (24 GB instead of 16 GB) and memory bandwidth. So if you stress all CPU and all GPU cores the same time the cooling can’t keep up. If the cooling can keep up when stressing only one of them it is enough in my opinion.

ohgodplsno 4y ago

HN: The M1/M2s are the best thing that's ever been invented in computing omg instructions per watt so good no need of a fan no cooling Also HN: dismisses a real problem of their beloved CPU hitting temperatures that would make Intel laugh Don't worry, denial is the first step to acceptance.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

torginus 4y ago

That really does not bode well for the upcoming fanless M2 Air.

nojito 4y ago
Why not? It's still a 10-20% performance improvement over the M1
- kenward 4y ago
  Not to mention a nicer peripherals like the screen and keyboard. Majority of people are not purchasing a MBA for pro-grade workloads. I think the MBA meets the requirements for its niche quite nicely.
_aavaa_ 4y ago
This is irrelevant since the Air is not meant to be encoding 8K video
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  > This is irrelevant since the Air is not meant to be encoding 8K video You know, I expect this kind of remark on a random twitter thread, but I'd expect folks around here to know better. The point of this test is: if you push the hardware to it's spec'd limits the cooling system is inadequate and the result is massive pulsed throttling. If your claim is "well just don't use the hardware to it's full spec'd limits", then I don't know what to say other than, that's absurd. I buy equipment expecting it to meet the specs on the tin. If it can't do that, it's defective, or Apple is lying to consumers. One or the other.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    > If your claim is "well just don't use the hardware to it's full spec'd limits", then I don't know what to say other than, that's absurd. I buy equipment expecting it to meet the specs on the tin. The spec on the tin under what circumstances? Do you except a computer to not throttle if run in 80˚C weather? Do you except a cheap car to be able to drive at its max speed non-stop (minus fuel up) for days/weeks? See the discussion elsewhere in the comments about intended usecase. Nowhere on the tin does it say that either of these computers will run at 100% power without any slowdown. Nowhere on the Air does it say that it's designed for 8K rendering. There isn't anything absurd about designing a laptop to allow for bursts of power, or even heavy sustained load on the cpu OR the gpu but not BOTH.

jshaqaw 4y ago

After my 2018 top line Intel based MacBook Pro needed weird surgery involving me stacking thermal pads onto the motherboard to remain usable (not something I was thrilled to do with my expensive machine!), Apple is guilty until proven innocent to me on laptop thermal design.