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Except for when Tesla find out you've bought it 2nd hand, and revoke the FSD... (Or, you know, when you get into a Twitter shitslinging match with Elon...)

fragmede 4y ago
This is how supercharger access (revocation) works, by the by. Surprised there hasn't been an investigation and a lawsuit around it yet.
LeoPanthera 4y ago
It's so tiresome that this (mostly false) story keeps coming up. The short version of the truth: The original owner did not buy AP. AP was enabled because of a bug. The dealer listed it as having AP included because, at the time, it was enabled. When ownership was transferred, the glitch was corrected, and AP was removed. The new owner bitched very loudly to the press, and Tesla restored AP to the car, for free, even though it had never been paid for by either owner. It has nothing to do with FSD, and nothing was revoked because ownership changed.
- m463 4y ago
  But something was removed - over the air - from a vehicle that someone had in their possession. This is a huge deal if it becomes normalized.
- jen20 4y ago
  If a dealer listed something as included, and it was not, I would be beyond livid, and they would be giving me a full refund.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Tesla doesn't have dealers. This sounds like a used car.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Tesla doesn't have dealers. This sounds like a used car. And? If I own something (which I do after I've paid for it),the only way the "legal" owner is getting it back is via the courts. Why is it okay to resolve property disputes by private force?
      - astrange 4y ago
        Cause the post implied that it's right to be mad at Tesla, but that wouldn't help. Feel free to give the car back to the dealer. Although I'd think this would be obvious on the test drive. Also, being livid is probably bad for your health. Might get high blood pressure.
        lelanthran 4y ago
        > Cause the post implied that it's right to be mad at Tesla, Of course it's right to be mad at Tesla - they resolved a property dispute by force. > Also, being livid is probably bad for your health. Might get high blood pressure. I wouldn't be livid in that situation, but I would consider criminal charges against Tesla in my jurisdiction. After all, the dealer is only on the hook for civil claims, Tesla is on the hook for very obvious criminal claims.
        astrange 4y ago
        Oh, I missed that AP was enabled at the dealer but then disappeared - thought the dealer had just claimed it was there. That raises a lot of questions about how it could even happen. I'd understand if it was sold as some kind of "user license", but it's on the car, so I assumed it was a permanent extra hardware addition.
        LeoPanthera 4y ago
        No, all Teslas have the same hardware. (At least, all Teslas made in the past few years. Older ones can indeed lack required hardware.) Whether you have AP or FSD is a software bit.
  - LeoPanthera 4y ago
    It was a used car and the dealer was not Tesla.
    - jen20 4y ago
      So? If advertised with a feature, it is incumbent on the seller to provide a product with that feature.
      - LeoPanthera 4y ago
        "So" it is not the story that people keep repeating. Tesla do not remove AP from resold cars.
        jen20 4y ago
        Except, as you acknowledge below, that is exactly what they did.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  From the users perspective, they purchased a car advertised with a feature. They could see it functioning. An over the air update removed the feature that they had "purchased" and tested. Yeah, I'd be mad as well. Good that Tesla resolved the problem but there is reason to be mad about a company retroactively removing features from a product.
  - bigiain 4y ago
    There is reason to be mad about a company that builds itself the capability to retroactively remove features from a product. (/me looks hypocritically at my iPhone and Macbook...)

fragmede 4y ago

This is how supercharger access (revocation) works, by the by. Surprised there hasn't been an investigation and a lawsuit around it yet.

LeoPanthera 4y ago

It's so tiresome that this (mostly false) story keeps coming up. The short version of the truth: The original owner did not buy AP. AP was enabled because of a bug. The dealer listed it as having AP included because, at the time, it was enabled. When ownership was transferred, the glitch was corrected, and AP was removed. The new owner bitched very loudly to the press, and Tesla restored AP to the car, for free, even though it had never been paid for by either owner. It has nothing to do with FSD, and nothing was revoked because ownership changed.

m463 4y ago
But something was removed - over the air - from a vehicle that someone had in their possession. This is a huge deal if it becomes normalized.
jen20 4y ago
If a dealer listed something as included, and it was not, I would be beyond livid, and they would be giving me a full refund.
- astrange 4y ago
  Tesla doesn't have dealers. This sounds like a used car.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Tesla doesn't have dealers. This sounds like a used car. And? If I own something (which I do after I've paid for it),the only way the "legal" owner is getting it back is via the courts. Why is it okay to resolve property disputes by private force?
    - astrange 4y ago
      Cause the post implied that it's right to be mad at Tesla, but that wouldn't help. Feel free to give the car back to the dealer. Although I'd think this would be obvious on the test drive. Also, being livid is probably bad for your health. Might get high blood pressure.
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > Cause the post implied that it's right to be mad at Tesla, Of course it's right to be mad at Tesla - they resolved a property dispute by force. > Also, being livid is probably bad for your health. Might get high blood pressure. I wouldn't be livid in that situation, but I would consider criminal charges against Tesla in my jurisdiction. After all, the dealer is only on the hook for civil claims, Tesla is on the hook for very obvious criminal claims.
        astrange 4y ago
        Oh, I missed that AP was enabled at the dealer but then disappeared - thought the dealer had just claimed it was there. That raises a lot of questions about how it could even happen. I'd understand if it was sold as some kind of "user license", but it's on the car, so I assumed it was a permanent extra hardware addition.
        LeoPanthera 4y ago
        No, all Teslas have the same hardware. (At least, all Teslas made in the past few years. Older ones can indeed lack required hardware.) Whether you have AP or FSD is a software bit.
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  It was a used car and the dealer was not Tesla.
  - jen20 4y ago
    So? If advertised with a feature, it is incumbent on the seller to provide a product with that feature.
    - LeoPanthera 4y ago
      "So" it is not the story that people keep repeating. Tesla do not remove AP from resold cars.
      - jen20 4y ago
        Except, as you acknowledge below, that is exactly what they did.
Gigachad 4y ago
From the users perspective, they purchased a car advertised with a feature. They could see it functioning. An over the air update removed the feature that they had "purchased" and tested. Yeah, I'd be mad as well. Good that Tesla resolved the problem but there is reason to be mad about a company retroactively removing features from a product.
- bigiain 4y ago
  There is reason to be mad about a company that builds itself the capability to retroactively remove features from a product. (/me looks hypocritically at my iPhone and Macbook...)