5 ms·

That list is a perfect example why GitHub is so problematic. Forget Copilot. Even without that you’ve put all of those services in one centralized basket, full

by Uninen 4y ago

That list is a perfect example why GitHub is so problematic. Forget Copilot. Even without that you’ve put all of those services in one centralized basket, fully controlled by a for-profit company (with proven track record of unethical behavior). And not only that, but this is true for the vast majority of FOSS projects!

Aeolun 4y ago
> fully controlled by a for-profit company This is only a serious problem if you are not paying them for it. The current situation is how 99% of thr world works everywhere.
- danuker 4y ago
  As if paying MS will stop them from deprecating services.
nunez 4y ago
I guess we should cancel Level3, Equinix, AT&T and Verizon while we're at it?
seadan83 4y ago
I see your point. The disagreement I have is I would not at all consider copilot as putting MSFT into the evil empire category yet. While it was very unnerving for the ownership to change, MSFT has really had a pretty hands-off approach on Github. I touched on it, but I still see this for-profit model as being compatible with FOSS. Specifically, make it free to FOSS so that those professional software developers then move to adopt the same platform at their private companies. There are lots of examples of for-profit companies that provide free-to-foss platforms. For example, just considering code scanners, Codacy, CodeClimate, Snyk, LGTM, all used by this project and all have the same for-profit model (but free to FOSS). We also use 'install4j', which has the same free-for-foss model and is a for-profit company. I think the heart of it is the argument that MSFT is going to expand that for-profit model and leverage data in a way that violates FOSS licenses? Is copilot an example of that? Should this all be taken to the extreme and declare that MSFT is the evil empire for this and by extension so is Github?
- zmmmmm 4y ago
  > MSFT has really had a pretty hands-off approach on Github (a) since it is proprietary, you can't see where their hands are (b) the fact that they haven't done anything also means you have no signal of their intent once they do. Not doing anything would be the logical play for a period of time whether you had evil intent or not.
- prohobo 4y ago
  I'd just like to ask: when was the last time Microsoft hasn't done something evil with one of their products? Windows XP? I don't understand why you're essentially resetting their reputation in regards to GitHub.
  - account42 4y ago
    > Windows XP? IIRC Windows XP was the first version with online activation checks aka "Windows Genuine Advantage" so I think you need to go further back.
- dandellion 4y ago
  > I would not at all consider copilot as putting MSFT into the evil empire category yet The question is not whether Microsoft should be put into the evil empire category, but if they really left it or are just pretending like they did every time before.

by Uninen 4y ago

Aeolun 4y ago

> fully controlled by a for-profit company This is only a serious problem if you are not paying them for it. The current situation is how 99% of thr world works everywhere.

danuker 4y ago
As if paying MS will stop them from deprecating services.

nunez 4y ago

I guess we should cancel Level3, Equinix, AT&T and Verizon while we're at it?

seadan83 4y ago

I see your point. The disagreement I have is I would not at all consider copilot as putting MSFT into the evil empire category yet. While it was very unnerving for the ownership to change, MSFT has really had a pretty hands-off approach on Github. I touched on it, but I still see this for-profit model as being compatible with FOSS. Specifically, make it free to FOSS so that those professional software developers then move to adopt the same platform at their private companies. There are lots of examples of for-profit companies that provide free-to-foss platforms. For example, just considering code scanners, Codacy, CodeClimate, Snyk, LGTM, all used by this project and all have the same for-profit model (but free to FOSS). We also use 'install4j', which has the same free-for-foss model and is a for-profit company. I think the heart of it is the argument that MSFT is going to expand that for-profit model and leverage data in a way that violates FOSS licenses? Is copilot an example of that? Should this all be taken to the extreme and declare that MSFT is the evil empire for this and by extension so is Github?

zmmmmm 4y ago
> MSFT has really had a pretty hands-off approach on Github (a) since it is proprietary, you can't see where their hands are (b) the fact that they haven't done anything also means you have no signal of their intent once they do. Not doing anything would be the logical play for a period of time whether you had evil intent or not.
prohobo 4y ago
I'd just like to ask: when was the last time Microsoft hasn't done something evil with one of their products? Windows XP? I don't understand why you're essentially resetting their reputation in regards to GitHub.
- account42 4y ago
  > Windows XP? IIRC Windows XP was the first version with online activation checks aka "Windows Genuine Advantage" so I think you need to go further back.
dandellion 4y ago
> I would not at all consider copilot as putting MSFT into the evil empire category yet The question is not whether Microsoft should be put into the evil empire category, but if they really left it or are just pretending like they did every time before.