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I'm not a Coinbase fan but I feel these points are very unfair. > Coinbase due to wilful negligience, incompetence What did Coinbase do that made people lose

by dewey 4y ago

I'm not a Coinbase fan but I feel these points are very unfair. > Coinbase due to wilful negligience, incompetence What did Coinbase do that made people lose money? > They literally got rich by having people transfer over their savings How is it different than any stock broker, insurance broker or bank clerk selling risky or expensive investments to people who don't know better?

chinathrow 4y ago
> What did Coinbase do that made people lose money An easy one: Facilitate access to the cryptocurrency scams of the century, mainly shitcoins.
- ptero 4y ago
  Facilitating access to various investment options, including direct speculation, is what stockbrokers do. Why is your grief falling specifically on the Coinbase? For example, in my Fidelity account I can, if I am so inclined, day trade GBTC, buy low volume penny stocks of sketchy miners and do a lot of other things that are not recommended by the mainstream financial analysts.
  - chinathrow 4y ago
    > Why is your grief falling specifically on the Coinbase There is simply no underlying value within any of these coins. Why would a sane person invest in them? With regular stocks, you have at least some sort of insight on how an underlying is performing.
    - dewey 4y ago
      There's many regular investment vehicles that you can invest in where this also applies. This is not a crypto or Coinbase problem.
    - ezfe 4y ago
      So do you think that everyone should remove gamestop from stock brokers? It's not connected to the underlying business performance.
    - SamReidHughes 4y ago
      Brokers also let you trade foreign currencies and metals.
    - ptero 4y ago
      > There is simply no underlying value within any of these coins. Why would a sane person invest in them? I remember hearing the same arguments against Ebay and other e-commerce companies: this is all vaporware, there is no physical value (meaning bricks and mortar storefronts), we should prohibit people from investing in all of those, etc. I personally would not touch most cryptos with a 6' pole, but that is just my opinion. We should still allow someone who believes in this space to invest their own money the way they see fit. My 2c.
      - wpietri 4y ago
        Nah. The average person was and should have been prevented from investing in Ebay until they were a publicly traded company, which required Ebay execs to share with the public enough information to have a hope of correctly valuing the investment. Even if you don't care at all about individuals getting fleeced by scammers, there's a societal reason. We need investment capital for growth, and we need it to be reasonably sanely allocated. If some people raising capital can lie and others have to tell the truth, that puts truth-tellers at a structural disadvantage, meaning more money for fraud, less money for good investments, and a strong incentive for everybody to lie in equal amounts just to keep up. Worse, over the long term, markets with high levels of scamming mean that most people learn to stay out of them entirely. This leads to even less capital for good investments plus society-wide misallocation of capital. E.g., people just keeping money in their mattresses. So long-term economic growth is harmed for a generation or two. Because even if you clean up a market so it is safe, it takes a long while for people to forget previous pain. So as a society, we want what America had for decades: strongly regulated financial markets so that the average joe has a variety of safe investment options. For the few who really want to invest in the risky stuff, they can go out and get a Series 65 exam to prove they know what they're doing. [1] [1] Process described here: https://www.natecation.com/accredited-investor-investing-startups-series-65/ https://www.natecation.com/accredited-investor-investing-sta...
        ptero 4y ago
        For tax or other community money pots, sure. For my own -- thanks, but no thanks. I will spend it however I like.
duped 4y ago
They're still investments, first of all. Crypto is just a scam.
xhkkffbf 4y ago
I have to agree. If small fish want risk-free options, society offers banks that are heavily regulated and insured. Indeed, the insurance like the FDIC only protects the relatively small actors in the financial system. Society also offers us the freedom to choose how we invest. That means taking a risk and I think Coinbase always made it clear that the area was very risky.
dev_throw 4y ago
Also, their customer support has largely been an afterthought and when you combine that with dark patterns, it makes for an awful user experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26808275&p=2#26809476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26808275&p=2#26809476
senthil_rajasek 4y ago
At least in the U.S selling financial products like stocks, ETFs are regulated. Bank products like savings accounts are FDIC insured. Crypto products are not regulated. Crypto products are new, sophisticated and poorly understood by the average people and can hence be manipulated easily. That's the main difference between traditional financial products and crypto.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  Your comment seems like a disingenuous attack rooted in sour grapes rather than principles. Stock options are regulated and less new, but they are also sophisticated, poorly understood by the average people, and manipulated easily. The idea that traditional financial markets are 'fair' to the common man is pretty naive: many brokerages intentionally front run their customers or charge unconscionable fees, and the market is rife with non-fiduciary investment advisors who sell products based on what provides the largest kickback rather than what's in the best interest of their customer.
  - senthil_rajasek 4y ago
    There are restrictions to opening Options and futures accounts in the U.S. Equating traditional financial system to crypto using front running, high fees etc., is false equivalency.

by dewey 4y ago

chinathrow 4y ago

> What did Coinbase do that made people lose money An easy one: Facilitate access to the cryptocurrency scams of the century, mainly shitcoins.

ptero 4y ago
Facilitating access to various investment options, including direct speculation, is what stockbrokers do. Why is your grief falling specifically on the Coinbase? For example, in my Fidelity account I can, if I am so inclined, day trade GBTC, buy low volume penny stocks of sketchy miners and do a lot of other things that are not recommended by the mainstream financial analysts.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  > Why is your grief falling specifically on the Coinbase There is simply no underlying value within any of these coins. Why would a sane person invest in them? With regular stocks, you have at least some sort of insight on how an underlying is performing.
  - dewey 4y ago
    There's many regular investment vehicles that you can invest in where this also applies. This is not a crypto or Coinbase problem.
  - ezfe 4y ago
    So do you think that everyone should remove gamestop from stock brokers? It's not connected to the underlying business performance.
  - SamReidHughes 4y ago
    Brokers also let you trade foreign currencies and metals.
  - ptero 4y ago
    > There is simply no underlying value within any of these coins. Why would a sane person invest in them? I remember hearing the same arguments against Ebay and other e-commerce companies: this is all vaporware, there is no physical value (meaning bricks and mortar storefronts), we should prohibit people from investing in all of those, etc. I personally would not touch most cryptos with a 6' pole, but that is just my opinion. We should still allow someone who believes in this space to invest their own money the way they see fit. My 2c.
    - wpietri 4y ago
      Nah. The average person was and should have been prevented from investing in Ebay until they were a publicly traded company, which required Ebay execs to share with the public enough information to have a hope of correctly valuing the investment. Even if you don't care at all about individuals getting fleeced by scammers, there's a societal reason. We need investment capital for growth, and we need it to be reasonably sanely allocated. If some people raising capital can lie and others have to tell the truth, that puts truth-tellers at a structural disadvantage, meaning more money for fraud, less money for good investments, and a strong incentive for everybody to lie in equal amounts just to keep up. Worse, over the long term, markets with high levels of scamming mean that most people learn to stay out of them entirely. This leads to even less capital for good investments plus society-wide misallocation of capital. E.g., people just keeping money in their mattresses. So long-term economic growth is harmed for a generation or two. Because even if you clean up a market so it is safe, it takes a long while for people to forget previous pain. So as a society, we want what America had for decades: strongly regulated financial markets so that the average joe has a variety of safe investment options. For the few who really want to invest in the risky stuff, they can go out and get a Series 65 exam to prove they know what they're doing. [1] [1] Process described here: https://www.natecation.com/accredited-investor-investing-startups-series-65/ https://www.natecation.com/accredited-investor-investing-sta...
      - ptero 4y ago
        For tax or other community money pots, sure. For my own -- thanks, but no thanks. I will spend it however I like.

duped 4y ago

They're still investments, first of all. Crypto is just a scam.

xhkkffbf 4y ago

I have to agree. If small fish want risk-free options, society offers banks that are heavily regulated and insured. Indeed, the insurance like the FDIC only protects the relatively small actors in the financial system. Society also offers us the freedom to choose how we invest. That means taking a risk and I think Coinbase always made it clear that the area was very risky.

dev_throw 4y ago

Also, their customer support has largely been an afterthought and when you combine that with dark patterns, it makes for an awful user experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26808275&p=2#26809476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26808275&p=2#26809476

senthil_rajasek 4y ago

At least in the U.S selling financial products like stocks, ETFs are regulated. Bank products like savings accounts are FDIC insured. Crypto products are not regulated. Crypto products are new, sophisticated and poorly understood by the average people and can hence be manipulated easily. That's the main difference between traditional financial products and crypto.

cwkoss 4y ago
Your comment seems like a disingenuous attack rooted in sour grapes rather than principles. Stock options are regulated and less new, but they are also sophisticated, poorly understood by the average people, and manipulated easily. The idea that traditional financial markets are 'fair' to the common man is pretty naive: many brokerages intentionally front run their customers or charge unconscionable fees, and the market is rife with non-fiduciary investment advisors who sell products based on what provides the largest kickback rather than what's in the best interest of their customer.
- senthil_rajasek 4y ago
  There are restrictions to opening Options and futures accounts in the U.S. Equating traditional financial system to crypto using front running, high fees etc., is false equivalency.