7 ms·

These guys are on a roll. Yesterday was giving states legal rights over indigenous nations. Today this. I was already planning to expat soon, but this all make

These guys are on a roll. Yesterday was giving states legal rights over indigenous nations. Today this. I was already planning to expat soon, but this all makes me want to try to hurry that timeline. Sorry to those of you that are stuck in this hellscape.

akmarinov 4y ago
You’re looking to become an immigrant somewhere?
- cujo 4y ago
  Is this supposed to be a gotcha? That's clearly what OP is saying. What makes that unreasonable?
  - artemonster 4y ago
    In „their“ mind that a very „bad“ thing, I guess.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
ericmay 4y ago
I'd like to caution other people who are feeling despondent and thinking of leaving that this is exactly what they want. They want you to give them your homes, your relationships, your friends, your resources, your job and everything you've cared about. So instead of being cynical and celebrating people who are abandoning ship, which I totally understand, we should instead spend time uniting people in opposition. Stay where you are and fight. It's your country. It's mind-blowing that people won't engage in trying to actually do something, even something as simple as helping a campaign, or donating money, but instead they're like "well I'm going to just give up and spend all this time and effort moving to some other country where I also won't uphold any civic responsibility". Madness.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- davidw 4y ago
  I've been pondering this myself. At a certain point, in places going downhill, like Venezuela or Russia, the smart move is just to get out. Tough to decide when that moment is, though, I guess.
  - SantalBlush 4y ago
    We have a long way to go before we can reasonably be compared with Venezuela.
    - CyanBird 4y ago
      I honestly couldn't live living in the US, I just couldn't exist there knowing that my tax dollars and simply my existence there helps bolster such violence in other countries, good that I don't need to with how common wfh is these days But yeah, rough stuff
      - davidw 4y ago
        No place is perfect. Much of the fossil fuels that European countries consume was coming from Russia and is paying for the horrific things Russia is doing in Ukraine. But narrowly, I'm talking about democracy itself, which is not doing well in the US.
    - davidw 4y ago
      As much as these things can be objectively measured, that's certainly correct. But the trend is not a good one, and the US is considered a 'flawed democracy' rather than a full one according to this: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/02/09/a-new-low-for-global-democracy https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/02/09/a-new-lo...
    - tehjoker 4y ago
      The main thing would for us to be under crushing US sanctions. However, because the US needs their oil now, things may be loosening up and Venezuela may do a lot better.
pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- America began the process of un-uniting quite some time ago - it's unsurprising that the supreme court is reflecting that - curious what Americans here think about this? - much of the country is trending towards "live in the state that you're comfortable in" - seems somewhat reasonable? --
- cujo 4y ago
  Thoughts: 1. Moving is hard. Even harder for people that have little means. Living in the state you're comfortable isn't going to work for a lot of people. 2. Currently, it doesn't feel like "the state you're comfortable in" will be that way for long in this country. 3. Moving to a country you're comfortable in is the same principle, so why not do that if you're already comfortable moving? But to play this card,
  - davidw 4y ago
    > 1. Moving is hard. Even harder for people that have little means. Living in the state you're comfortable isn't going to work for a lot of people. Also, don't forget that a lot of blue states (if that's where someone wants to live) have been really bad at providing enough housing, so are pretty difficult for someone to move to if they don't have a lot of money.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    -- I'd think that if you wanted to progress your country and change it toward your perspective - it would take folks moving to the areas they're uncomfortable to do the work in those communities - from an outside perspective it seems the conservatives are going to swallow the liberals in the states simply because they're more comfortable literally going to other areas of the country to change/bolster views? (I don't live in the USA)- however - I suppose that's a lot to ask - that said- it's fairly common in some countries --
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > live in the state that you're comfortable in That's a pipe dream. The division is urban-vs-rural, not state-vs-state. What is now a red state will inexorably become blue as people flock to it. Rinse and repeat. America has been through divisive times in the past. We'll survive. I think what's notable now is that it's been so damn peaceful for most of our lives that this looks like unprecedented tribalism.
gonzo41 4y ago
Don't pick a country that's between the tropics of Capricorn or Cancer, or you'll just be escaping to a hellscape shortly anyway.
brodouevencode 4y ago
mark_l_watson 4y ago
While I think that I understand your feelings, here is something to consider: Yuval Noah Harari (historian who has written some great books for understanding the world) recently said that if countries like the USA can solve the partisanship problems we have then there is no limit to where our society and civilization can go. This seems well worth working hard for. My personal approach is to be very hard on family members and friends who if democrats talk about republicans as evil incarnate and if they are republicans then talk about democrats as woke idiots who are ruining the country. I try to point out how stupid both sides are and they are fighting the wrong battles against the wrong enemy. Another reason to stay in the USA: currently the world is splitting into two economies led by: 1) BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) - they will probably have about 60% of the world's population aligned with them. 2) USA/Europe/Canada/Australia/etc. - they will probably have about 40% of the world's population aligned with them. Except for the USA and Russia who have the resources (food, energy, defensibility), I think that most all of the other countries can not exist without external trade. If the shit really hits the fan for the world, being in the USA might be a very good thing, even if we don't solve the political bigotry of democrats and republicans hating each other.
- KingOfCoders 4y ago
  As an European, please don't put me in a basket with the USA. Thanks.
selimthegrim 4y ago
Weird, I thought Gorsuch was pretty pro indigenous.
- Miltnoid 4y ago
  Yeah, he was on the dissenting side. But it was still 5-4.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> stuck in this hellscape It looks much less so if you turn off the news. I have a good life here, and I'm unconvinced it would be a net improvement to move to Europe. I enjoy visiting there, but it's not like they don't have their own problems.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

akmarinov 4y ago

You’re looking to become an immigrant somewhere?

cujo 4y ago
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? That's clearly what OP is saying. What makes that unreasonable?
- artemonster 4y ago
  In „their“ mind that a very „bad“ thing, I guess.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

ericmay 4y ago

I'd like to caution other people who are feeling despondent and thinking of leaving that this is exactly what they want. They want you to give them your homes, your relationships, your friends, your resources, your job and everything you've cared about. So instead of being cynical and celebrating people who are abandoning ship, which I totally understand, we should instead spend time uniting people in opposition. Stay where you are and fight. It's your country. It's mind-blowing that people won't engage in trying to actually do something, even something as simple as helping a campaign, or donating money, but instead they're like "well I'm going to just give up and spend all this time and effort moving to some other country where I also won't uphold any civic responsibility". Madness.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
davidw 4y ago
I've been pondering this myself. At a certain point, in places going downhill, like Venezuela or Russia, the smart move is just to get out. Tough to decide when that moment is, though, I guess.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  We have a long way to go before we can reasonably be compared with Venezuela.
  - CyanBird 4y ago
    I honestly couldn't live living in the US, I just couldn't exist there knowing that my tax dollars and simply my existence there helps bolster such violence in other countries, good that I don't need to with how common wfh is these days But yeah, rough stuff
    - davidw 4y ago
      No place is perfect. Much of the fossil fuels that European countries consume was coming from Russia and is paying for the horrific things Russia is doing in Ukraine. But narrowly, I'm talking about democracy itself, which is not doing well in the US.
  - davidw 4y ago
    As much as these things can be objectively measured, that's certainly correct. But the trend is not a good one, and the US is considered a 'flawed democracy' rather than a full one according to this: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/02/09/a-new-low-for-global-democracy https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/02/09/a-new-lo...
  - tehjoker 4y ago
    The main thing would for us to be under crushing US sanctions. However, because the US needs their oil now, things may be loosening up and Venezuela may do a lot better.

pigtailgirl 4y ago

-- America began the process of un-uniting quite some time ago - it's unsurprising that the supreme court is reflecting that - curious what Americans here think about this? - much of the country is trending towards "live in the state that you're comfortable in" - seems somewhat reasonable? --

cujo 4y ago
Thoughts: 1. Moving is hard. Even harder for people that have little means. Living in the state you're comfortable isn't going to work for a lot of people. 2. Currently, it doesn't feel like "the state you're comfortable in" will be that way for long in this country. 3. Moving to a country you're comfortable in is the same principle, so why not do that if you're already comfortable moving? But to play this card,
- davidw 4y ago
  > 1. Moving is hard. Even harder for people that have little means. Living in the state you're comfortable isn't going to work for a lot of people. Also, don't forget that a lot of blue states (if that's where someone wants to live) have been really bad at providing enough housing, so are pretty difficult for someone to move to if they don't have a lot of money.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- I'd think that if you wanted to progress your country and change it toward your perspective - it would take folks moving to the areas they're uncomfortable to do the work in those communities - from an outside perspective it seems the conservatives are going to swallow the liberals in the states simply because they're more comfortable literally going to other areas of the country to change/bolster views? (I don't live in the USA)- however - I suppose that's a lot to ask - that said- it's fairly common in some countries --
rootusrootus 4y ago
> live in the state that you're comfortable in That's a pipe dream. The division is urban-vs-rural, not state-vs-state. What is now a red state will inexorably become blue as people flock to it. Rinse and repeat. America has been through divisive times in the past. We'll survive. I think what's notable now is that it's been so damn peaceful for most of our lives that this looks like unprecedented tribalism.

gonzo41 4y ago

Don't pick a country that's between the tropics of Capricorn or Cancer, or you'll just be escaping to a hellscape shortly anyway.

brodouevencode 4y ago

mark_l_watson 4y ago

While I think that I understand your feelings, here is something to consider: Yuval Noah Harari (historian who has written some great books for understanding the world) recently said that if countries like the USA can solve the partisanship problems we have then there is no limit to where our society and civilization can go. This seems well worth working hard for. My personal approach is to be very hard on family members and friends who if democrats talk about republicans as evil incarnate and if they are republicans then talk about democrats as woke idiots who are ruining the country. I try to point out how stupid both sides are and they are fighting the wrong battles against the wrong enemy. Another reason to stay in the USA: currently the world is splitting into two economies led by: 1) BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) - they will probably have about 60% of the world's population aligned with them. 2) USA/Europe/Canada/Australia/etc. - they will probably have about 40% of the world's population aligned with them. Except for the USA and Russia who have the resources (food, energy, defensibility), I think that most all of the other countries can not exist without external trade. If the shit really hits the fan for the world, being in the USA might be a very good thing, even if we don't solve the political bigotry of democrats and republicans hating each other.

KingOfCoders 4y ago
As an European, please don't put me in a basket with the USA. Thanks.

selimthegrim 4y ago

Weird, I thought Gorsuch was pretty pro indigenous.

Miltnoid 4y ago
Yeah, he was on the dissenting side. But it was still 5-4.

rootusrootus 4y ago

> stuck in this hellscape It looks much less so if you turn off the news. I have a good life here, and I'm unconvinced it would be a net improvement to move to Europe. I enjoy visiting there, but it's not like they don't have their own problems.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]