7 ms·

Several years ago I was working at one of the largest tech companies in the world, and there were rumors of layoffs in our org. We had a huge all hands meeting

Several years ago I was working at one of the largest tech companies in the world, and there were rumors of layoffs in our org. We had a huge all hands meeting (over 1000 people in the room), and at the end the VP asked if there were any questions. I straight up asked him if that was happening. Every eye in the room glared at me in surprise. He assured me that was just a rumor and we had nothing to worry about, and "as far as he knew" there were no cuts upcoming. THE NEXT DAY they laid off 100 people. I was not laid off, but I started looking for other work because he lied to my face. About 2 months later I was turning in my badge and was very blunt on my exit questionnaire about the reason.

jokethrowaway 4y ago
VP may have not know about it until the day. The days we did layoffs at my previous company it came as a shock for everyone, including middle managers. The VP got into a long and sudden meeting and then they announced it.
Nimitz14 4y ago
His action was the only rational one. The fact you don't realize that does not make you look intelligent.
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  Respectfully disagree. The fact that you can't see the flaw in losing the trust of your entire organization does not make you look intelligent. Over the course of the next 6 months all of the top performers left. Some stayed within the company and went outside of that VP's org. Most left for other companies. Most of these people had been with the company 5+ years.
dont__panic 4y ago
I'm no apologist for overpaid middle management, but... I'm not sure what the best response would actually be to this kind of question. If you answer "yes," but the final layoffs aren't finalized... you initiate widespread panic, because everyone worries that they could get laid off. If you answer "no," you're a dishonest snake. If you know exactly which departments are facing layoffs, you could answer "yes" and just jump the gun to announce they layoffs right at that moment, but... you'll still end up stressing a lot of people out and hurting general productivity. Not trying to make up excuses for the lying here, but I'm genuinely curious what a VP should do in this position. Lie for the good of the many? Or be truthful to keep a clean conscience?
- Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
  >what a VP should do in this position "I don't recall having been told that any layoffs are imminent, but even if I had been told that they were, that would be confidential information and I wouldn't be at liberty to say."
- throwaway284534 4y ago
  IMO the fact that the employees anticipated that layoffs were coming and leadership still didn’t preemptively quell that sentiment means someone already made a mistake. I’m sympathetic to how difficult it can be to relay unpleasant news, but it’s sort of like getting the lifeboats ready before your ship hits the iceberg. Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture?
  - peterangular 4y ago
    > Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture? Actively taught or not, capitalism specifically optimizes for the latter.
  - sklargh 4y ago
    A core tenant of any MBA program is to inculcate a duty to shareholders vs. employees. Your duty of leadership extends as far as it takes to optimize organizational outputs for quarterly goals that move share price up.
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      Employees should take the exact same attitude with their job. Your duty as an employee is to optimize your compensation ( However you define compensation it doesn't have to be just money). Same thing with honesty. If the employer isn't going to give you advanced notice that you may be fired, you have no obligation to tell them that you are thinking about quitting.
      - 4y ago
tomc1985 4y ago
I have learned the hard way that CEOs are some of the most dishonest people on the planet, right up there next to salespeople.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  Just to provide a counterpoint, my personal experiences with the CEO of my company have been consistently positive. I consider him worthy of my trust, and I am a naturally skeptical person. The company has grown to hundreds of employees, but he's still approachable and direct as ever. It puts a smile on my face when upper management squats in a conference room I need for a scheduled interview, and I can tell the candidate they just booted the CEO and director of engineering.
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    I've met a few, and they are a rare treasure, but in nearly every case my time with them is limited as something always happens that sees them gone. Whether it's retirement, getting ousted by the board, selling the company, or death (by cancer), it seems like whoever is brought in afterwards is always worse. It really seems like wherever I get hired, the situation always changes dramatically after 1-2 years and the workplace goes downhill. My work life is like a continuous series of bait-and-switches. It is really, really tiresome. Here is to hoping that self-employment is not so dramatic.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
It is generally assumed that companies pull this shit. If I get fired the government pays me my salary for a year while I'm looking for another job. I don't really blame corporations, the moment that they admit weakness is when the hyenas show up.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  > If I get fired the government pays me my salary for a year while I'm looking for another job. Theoretically. My experience was that getting unemployment benefits as a skilled worker is practically impossible. You have to interview constantly, and there are lots of companies interviewing recently laid off tech workers, and they offer crap salaries knowing that only so many offers can be turned down before your claims are rejected.
apetresc 4y ago
If it's "one of the largest tech companies in the world", I legitimately don't think 100 people counts as a "layoff", does it? This company must have tens of thousands of employees if it's "one of the largest in the world" and has over 1000 people in a single room during an all-hands.
cosmodisk 4y ago
I've been in quite a few situations over the last three years where you want scream that shit is about to hit the fan because you have access to privileged info, but you can't. I did have to avoid a lot of conversation or point blank say I don't know. Not trying to excuse the CEO,but often it's a bit more complicated than yes or no.
eikenberry 4y ago
I've been at 2 smaller companies when layoffs were on the table. One handled it great, one like crap. Company #1 had a meeting and just plain out said it.. "we need to cut 20% of the payroll budget. So we need to decide between 20% layoffs and 20% pay cuts." We took the latter option as we liked our team and the company recovered in a couple years. Company #2 did the traditional "everything is fine" even though everyone knew it was bullshit and no one was surprised when they announced the layoffs. Most of the people already had started looking along with a lot of other people. They laid off around 25% but due the the way they handled it they suffered around 50% attrition.

jokethrowaway 4y ago

VP may have not know about it until the day. The days we did layoffs at my previous company it came as a shock for everyone, including middle managers. The VP got into a long and sudden meeting and then they announced it.

Nimitz14 4y ago

His action was the only rational one. The fact you don't realize that does not make you look intelligent.

itslennysfault 4y ago
Respectfully disagree. The fact that you can't see the flaw in losing the trust of your entire organization does not make you look intelligent. Over the course of the next 6 months all of the top performers left. Some stayed within the company and went outside of that VP's org. Most left for other companies. Most of these people had been with the company 5+ years.

dont__panic 4y ago

I'm no apologist for overpaid middle management, but... I'm not sure what the best response would actually be to this kind of question. If you answer "yes," but the final layoffs aren't finalized... you initiate widespread panic, because everyone worries that they could get laid off. If you answer "no," you're a dishonest snake. If you know exactly which departments are facing layoffs, you could answer "yes" and just jump the gun to announce they layoffs right at that moment, but... you'll still end up stressing a lot of people out and hurting general productivity. Not trying to make up excuses for the lying here, but I'm genuinely curious what a VP should do in this position. Lie for the good of the many? Or be truthful to keep a clean conscience?

Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
>what a VP should do in this position "I don't recall having been told that any layoffs are imminent, but even if I had been told that they were, that would be confidential information and I wouldn't be at liberty to say."
throwaway284534 4y ago
IMO the fact that the employees anticipated that layoffs were coming and leadership still didn’t preemptively quell that sentiment means someone already made a mistake. I’m sympathetic to how difficult it can be to relay unpleasant news, but it’s sort of like getting the lifeboats ready before your ship hits the iceberg. Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture?
- peterangular 4y ago
  > Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture? Actively taught or not, capitalism specifically optimizes for the latter.
- sklargh 4y ago
  A core tenant of any MBA program is to inculcate a duty to shareholders vs. employees. Your duty of leadership extends as far as it takes to optimize organizational outputs for quarterly goals that move share price up.
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    Employees should take the exact same attitude with their job. Your duty as an employee is to optimize your compensation ( However you define compensation it doesn't have to be just money). Same thing with honesty. If the employer isn't going to give you advanced notice that you may be fired, you have no obligation to tell them that you are thinking about quitting.
    - 4y ago

tomc1985 4y ago

I have learned the hard way that CEOs are some of the most dishonest people on the planet, right up there next to salespeople.

sgtnoodle 4y ago
Just to provide a counterpoint, my personal experiences with the CEO of my company have been consistently positive. I consider him worthy of my trust, and I am a naturally skeptical person. The company has grown to hundreds of employees, but he's still approachable and direct as ever. It puts a smile on my face when upper management squats in a conference room I need for a scheduled interview, and I can tell the candidate they just booted the CEO and director of engineering.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  I've met a few, and they are a rare treasure, but in nearly every case my time with them is limited as something always happens that sees them gone. Whether it's retirement, getting ousted by the board, selling the company, or death (by cancer), it seems like whoever is brought in afterwards is always worse. It really seems like wherever I get hired, the situation always changes dramatically after 1-2 years and the workplace goes downhill. My work life is like a continuous series of bait-and-switches. It is really, really tiresome. Here is to hoping that self-employment is not so dramatic.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

It is generally assumed that companies pull this shit. If I get fired the government pays me my salary for a year while I'm looking for another job. I don't really blame corporations, the moment that they admit weakness is when the hyenas show up.

mywittyname 4y ago
> If I get fired the government pays me my salary for a year while I'm looking for another job. Theoretically. My experience was that getting unemployment benefits as a skilled worker is practically impossible. You have to interview constantly, and there are lots of companies interviewing recently laid off tech workers, and they offer crap salaries knowing that only so many offers can be turned down before your claims are rejected.

apetresc 4y ago

If it's "one of the largest tech companies in the world", I legitimately don't think 100 people counts as a "layoff", does it? This company must have tens of thousands of employees if it's "one of the largest in the world" and has over 1000 people in a single room during an all-hands.

cosmodisk 4y ago

I've been in quite a few situations over the last three years where you want scream that shit is about to hit the fan because you have access to privileged info, but you can't. I did have to avoid a lot of conversation or point blank say I don't know. Not trying to excuse the CEO,but often it's a bit more complicated than yes or no.

eikenberry 4y ago

I've been at 2 smaller companies when layoffs were on the table. One handled it great, one like crap. Company #1 had a meeting and just plain out said it.. "we need to cut 20% of the payroll budget. So we need to decide between 20% layoffs and 20% pay cuts." We took the latter option as we liked our team and the company recovered in a couple years. Company #2 did the traditional "everything is fine" even though everyone knew it was bullshit and no one was surprised when they announced the layoffs. Most of the people already had started looking along with a lot of other people. They laid off around 25% but due the the way they handled it they suffered around 50% attrition.