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Who says BTC isn't used for payments? Many porn sites ONLY allow you to pay with crypto, including PornHub[1], and they're keeping the lights on somehow. It's b

Who says BTC isn't used for payments? Many porn sites ONLY allow you to pay with crypto, including PornHub[1], and they're keeping the lights on somehow. It's being used by the Ukrainian military to pay their suppliers while the banking system is offline[2]. It's being used for remittances. I had to pay my rent with it once. Also VPNs, etc. There's far more global economic activity conducted in BTC than in gold. It all depends where you look. In some niches, BTC is used a lot. In some niches it isn't used by anyone (hi HN!) But it's a big world out there, and if you look outside your bubble it's not hard to find people using it. Re: the last paragraph, BTC did indeed crumple under load for a long time around ~2016, and transaction fees were very high as a result. But lightning network has appeared since then and fees are back down to reasonable levels, well under $1. Those were serious growing pains, but we made it through just fine. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31914284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31914284 [2]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-crypto-is-helping-ukraine-russia-currency-donations-transfer-infrastructure-11648065166 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-crypto-is-helping-ukraine-r...

gricardo99 4y ago
In some niches, BTC is used a lot. I think that’s GPs point: the economic transition volume is just so low that it doesn’t have much value (relative to government currency). The value if BTC is primarily driven by day-trader hype, IMHO.
mjburgess 4y ago
You're right that BTC has a floor because there's some economy behind it. I'd say in the 100USD-1000USD/coin range.
- benreesman 4y ago
  I’ll sell you that contract up to what I can finance it at.
  - dmoy 4y ago
    You completely ignored what GP said. The floor is different from what people will sell it to you for right now. AMZN may have a floor of $ASSETS / #SHARES (or something, I just made that up), but that doesn't mean anyone will sell it to you for that right now.
    - uoaei 4y ago
      It's like any other investment option, in that it's basically a legalized bet with contract language enforcing it.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      That’s just the sort of definition of Floor that leads to internet breaking production outages.
      - benreesman 4y ago
        Thank you.
    - benreesman 4y ago
      Anyone can invent quasi-financial terms to make grandiose claims. The beauty of the market is that loudmouths don’t participate in the market for long. I’ll sell an American-style options contract to someone who thinks BTC is going anywhere near there at Black-Scholes -75. And I’ll have no trouble financing it. You want the other side?
      - joebob42 4y ago
        I don't think "is this where the price is going" really has anything to do with what gp was even saying.
      - pcthrowaway 4y ago
        I'm pretty bullish crypto but I think there's a chance Bitcoin hits $1000 again in the next 10 years or so.. mainly because I think the case for Ethereum is much better. I don't understand what Black-Scholes means, but if you're willing to take 10 to 1 odds in my favour I'll draw up a smart contract: we both deposit USDC and receive tokens for our position which can be resold if desired; if bitcoin hits $1000 or less according to the Chainlink BTC_USD oracle at any point between now and 10 years from now, I get 10 USDC for every one of mine wagered
- someo1ne 4y ago
  Happy to buy btc for $1000 of you!!
mikeyouse 4y ago
That's not true for PHub -- Just went to confirm and the first option is bank transfer, the second is crypto. What percentage of people who pay for PHub do you think even own crypto? My guess would be <1%.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  There's no way in any number of Hells that I'd trust PornHub with my banking info.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    They're a massive company with a strong and empowered engineering department.
  - mikeyouse 4y ago
    Right - as a commenter on a technical forum - how much overlap do you think there is between yourself and the age/infosec knowledge/technical savvy of the type of person who pays for PHub in 2022?
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      Doesn't really make much of a difference; "only give your banking info to those you highly trust and only if it's absolutely necessary" has been common sense for longer than the Internet has existed.
      - colpabar 4y ago
        you completely ignored the question lol we know that you know, and that we know, but the comment was saying that most people don't.
        yellowapple 4y ago
        No, I directly addressed the question: it's common sense, i.e. entirely independent of tech-savviness or age or other factors. It's indeed common sense passed down to me from people far less tech-savvy (and far older) than myself.
remram 4y ago
Pornhub runs ads.
danans 4y ago
> It's being used by the Ukrainian military to pay their suppliers while the banking system is offline Ukraine's banking system is both online and functional: https://kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/ukraines-banking-miracle-how-its-banking-system-keeps-operating-amid-invasion https://kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/ukraines-banking-mirac... Regarding donations to Ukraine, the total value of donations to Ukraine has been around $900M so far [1], of which only $7M has been in crypto (according to your WSJ article), so less than 1%. 1. https://fortune.com/2022/04/15/how-much-donated-ukraine-war/#:~:text=PoliticsUkraine%20invasion-,Ukraine%20has%20received%20nearly%20%24900%20million%20in%20donations,Ukraine%2DRussia%20war%20rages%20on https://fortune.com/2022/04/15/how-much-donated-ukraine-war/...
- zeven7 4y ago
  > only $7M has been in crypto Vitalik alone donated $5M. https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/vitalik-buterin-ukraine-donation-ethereum-russian-invasion/ https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/vitalik-buterin-ukraine-donat... This page says $60M has been donated to one specific organization https://donate.thedigital.gov.ua/ https://donate.thedigital.gov.ua/ Here's another one that says they've collected $9M https://unchain.fund/ https://unchain.fund/ I'm sure there are others.

gricardo99 4y ago

In some niches, BTC is used a lot. I think that’s GPs point: the economic transition volume is just so low that it doesn’t have much value (relative to government currency). The value if BTC is primarily driven by day-trader hype, IMHO.

mjburgess 4y ago

You're right that BTC has a floor because there's some economy behind it. I'd say in the 100USD-1000USD/coin range.

benreesman 4y ago
I’ll sell you that contract up to what I can finance it at.
- dmoy 4y ago
  You completely ignored what GP said. The floor is different from what people will sell it to you for right now. AMZN may have a floor of $ASSETS / #SHARES (or something, I just made that up), but that doesn't mean anyone will sell it to you for that right now.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    It's like any other investment option, in that it's basically a legalized bet with contract language enforcing it.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    That’s just the sort of definition of Floor that leads to internet breaking production outages.
    - benreesman 4y ago
      Thank you.
  - benreesman 4y ago
    Anyone can invent quasi-financial terms to make grandiose claims. The beauty of the market is that loudmouths don’t participate in the market for long. I’ll sell an American-style options contract to someone who thinks BTC is going anywhere near there at Black-Scholes -75. And I’ll have no trouble financing it. You want the other side?
    - joebob42 4y ago
      I don't think "is this where the price is going" really has anything to do with what gp was even saying.
    - pcthrowaway 4y ago
      I'm pretty bullish crypto but I think there's a chance Bitcoin hits $1000 again in the next 10 years or so.. mainly because I think the case for Ethereum is much better. I don't understand what Black-Scholes means, but if you're willing to take 10 to 1 odds in my favour I'll draw up a smart contract: we both deposit USDC and receive tokens for our position which can be resold if desired; if bitcoin hits $1000 or less according to the Chainlink BTC_USD oracle at any point between now and 10 years from now, I get 10 USDC for every one of mine wagered
someo1ne 4y ago
Happy to buy btc for $1000 of you!!

mikeyouse 4y ago

That's not true for PHub -- Just went to confirm and the first option is bank transfer, the second is crypto. What percentage of people who pay for PHub do you think even own crypto? My guess would be <1%.

yellowapple 4y ago
There's no way in any number of Hells that I'd trust PornHub with my banking info.
- uoaei 4y ago
  They're a massive company with a strong and empowered engineering department.
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  Right - as a commenter on a technical forum - how much overlap do you think there is between yourself and the age/infosec knowledge/technical savvy of the type of person who pays for PHub in 2022?
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    Doesn't really make much of a difference; "only give your banking info to those you highly trust and only if it's absolutely necessary" has been common sense for longer than the Internet has existed.
    - colpabar 4y ago
      you completely ignored the question lol we know that you know, and that we know, but the comment was saying that most people don't.
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        No, I directly addressed the question: it's common sense, i.e. entirely independent of tech-savviness or age or other factors. It's indeed common sense passed down to me from people far less tech-savvy (and far older) than myself.

remram 4y ago

Pornhub runs ads.

danans 4y ago

> It's being used by the Ukrainian military to pay their suppliers while the banking system is offline Ukraine's banking system is both online and functional: https://kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/ukraines-banking-miracle-how-its-banking-system-keeps-operating-amid-invasion https://kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/ukraines-banking-mirac... Regarding donations to Ukraine, the total value of donations to Ukraine has been around $900M so far [1], of which only $7M has been in crypto (according to your WSJ article), so less than 1%. 1. https://fortune.com/2022/04/15/how-much-donated-ukraine-war/#:~:text=PoliticsUkraine%20invasion-,Ukraine%20has%20received%20nearly%20%24900%20million%20in%20donations,Ukraine%2DRussia%20war%20rages%20on https://fortune.com/2022/04/15/how-much-donated-ukraine-war/...

zeven7 4y ago
> only $7M has been in crypto Vitalik alone donated $5M. https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/vitalik-buterin-ukraine-donation-ethereum-russian-invasion/ https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/vitalik-buterin-ukraine-donat... This page says $60M has been donated to one specific organization https://donate.thedigital.gov.ua/ https://donate.thedigital.gov.ua/ Here's another one that says they've collected $9M https://unchain.fund/ https://unchain.fund/ I'm sure there are others.