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Ask HN: How to Solve Homelessness?

2 points by pkdpic 4y ago

It seems to be a real problem. Any ideas?

cratermoon 4y ago
Give people homes to live in. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle...
anovikov 4y ago
Just make it a felony. A small minority of bums will have to be removed from the streets, rest will put their shit together and get back to work. Yes, vast increase of capacity of prisons is necessary, today it's difficult to fight many types of crime because there's nowhere to put criminals in - vast, gulag-style camps able to house as many people as needed, is necessary. Make sure they don't come back until they are too old to be a problem. Seriously, society needs some discipline and some fear factor. Most people can be motivated by greed, but not everyone, so some healthy portion of fear is necessary. I always make an example of Belarus as a country that solved homelessness. It is a crime there, but extremely small number of chronic bums are actually behind bars - rest are too scared to even try bumming so they try as hard as possible to hold on to work, housing and their families.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  So you’re saying the government should provide them with food, shelter, safety and the other necessities of life just so long as they commit to not mingling with the rest of society?
  - anovikov 4y ago
    Yes about like that. They won't go there intentionally because being a bum is motivated by absolute freedom and being able to ignore any and all rules. Prison is the inverse of it.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Belarus?! The puppet state of Putin is the model of some utopia?! You’re kidding right? Does this logic track for other things as well? Nope. Poverty: “just make it a felony” Addiction: “just make it a felony” Laziness: “just make it a felony” You fail to understand the myriad of reasons of why someone might be homeless. Some might — in sound state or mind — choose it and others might be mentally unwell to “try as hard as possible to hold on to work, housing and their families”. Greater investments in mental health, subsidized housing or building more affordable housing for the vulnerable — those who work one or more jobs on the verge of losing their housing and other such programs can help mitigate homelessness.
  - anovikov 4y ago
    Being a puppet state of Putin with a terrible human rights record is one thing. Doing a good job at protecting law-abiding citizens from bums is another. Belarus is a safe country to live in. And no, they don't just send every bum they catch to prison. They have a sorting and distribution system in place that directs them to either mental hospitals, rehabs, or prisons (most go to rehabs for alcoholics), after that, they provide them jobs (usually shitty jobs on useless state-owned factories, or cleaning streets) and housing (dormitory rooms), and check on them on a regular basis to prevent relapse, if caught again bumming or avoiding work, yes then they go to prison. A state exists for the benefit or tax-paying, law-abiding public, and one of it's goals is to protect them from everyone else. And no, bums are sent to prison not to "fix" them, or even isolate, but to deter potential other ones from bumming (and it does a great job, because number of bums in prison is very low, and there are almost 0 bums in the streets). Prison must be hell and even bums should be scared to death at the prospect of getting there. Subsidised housing - that can't work in a country like USA. Because if you give housing to bums, all housing in the vicinity becomes a lot cheaper and the value lost, and property taxes lost, will become so unbearably high it's better to leave them in the streets. There must be no bums. People must know that staying out in the street is a very bad idea. Now they only do because they can.
    - gigatexal 4y ago
      “ Therefore, the legislation of the Republic of Belarus does not contain prohibitions on eating, sleeping, or performing personal hygienic activities in public places. The only exception is begging, which is unacceptable in cases where children or adolescents are involved in it, slave labor of beggars is used or beggars are trafficked. The laws does not imply tougher penalties for those who are unable to pay the fine as well” [1] [2] [1] https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/BelarusHelsinkiCommittee.docx https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/BelarusHel... [2] https://www.ohchr.org/en/calls-for-input/2021/call-input-decriminalization-homelessness-and-extreme-poverty https://www.ohchr.org/en/calls-for-input/2021/call-input-dec... Is there a link to a page where I can read about this Belarusian law?
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  I suspect you will receive some downvotes and some "how dare you" type comments, but I completely agree. This problem is getting worse and worse, it's ruining entire cities at this point, and whatever policies we have now clearly aren't working. Expand the housing projects, create jobs programs, make it as easy as possible for these people to become responsible citizens, but don't tolerate crazy people living on the streets doing hard drugs and harassing and assaulting normal citizens.
  - trinovantes 4y ago
    Tried everything except ensuring housing is affordable but instead turned it into an investment asset "I think lack of affordable housing is a problem but I have some concerns in my neighborhood" - Everybody Let this simmer for a few decades and combine with opioid crisis, you get SF/LA
    - anovikov 4y ago
      But this is simply a law enforcement problem and nothing else. Just put appropriate legislation in and remove them from the streets and make sure no one returns. As easy as that.
      - trinovantes 4y ago
        Who won the war on drugs? Law enforcement without actually addressing the core issue is simply hiding the symptoms
        anovikov 4y ago
        In case of war on drugs, there was narco mafia on the other end. This one is easier, no one wants bums except bums themselves.
Someone 4y ago
Take care of the mentally ill, provide a basic income and affordable housing for the financially less of, provide shelters for those who suddenly need it (e.g. after an eviction, or because of abuse), don’t jail people for minor things such as drugs use, don’t put a stigma on criminals who have served their time. That should get us close, but I don’t think it is possible to reach zero homelessness. There always will be some vagabonds who will wander around from short temporary job to short temporary job, and occasionally will sleep on the street. Always give them the option of temporary shelter, a place to clean them up, but as long as they don’t do harm to society, don’t force them to have a home.
CelticBard 4y ago
HN running for president when
- frozencell 4y ago
  That's the premise of Crypto but HN is focused on the scams not politics or blockchain theory.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

2 points by pkdpic 4y ago

It seems to be a real problem. Any ideas?

Give people homes to live in. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle...

anovikov 4y ago

Just make it a felony. A small minority of bums will have to be removed from the streets, rest will put their shit together and get back to work. Yes, vast increase of capacity of prisons is necessary, today it's difficult to fight many types of crime because there's nowhere to put criminals in - vast, gulag-style camps able to house as many people as needed, is necessary. Make sure they don't come back until they are too old to be a problem. Seriously, society needs some discipline and some fear factor. Most people can be motivated by greed, but not everyone, so some healthy portion of fear is necessary. I always make an example of Belarus as a country that solved homelessness. It is a crime there, but extremely small number of chronic bums are actually behind bars - rest are too scared to even try bumming so they try as hard as possible to hold on to work, housing and their families.

swatcoder 4y ago
So you’re saying the government should provide them with food, shelter, safety and the other necessities of life just so long as they commit to not mingling with the rest of society?
- anovikov 4y ago
  Yes about like that. They won't go there intentionally because being a bum is motivated by absolute freedom and being able to ignore any and all rules. Prison is the inverse of it.
gigatexal 4y ago
Belarus?! The puppet state of Putin is the model of some utopia?! You’re kidding right? Does this logic track for other things as well? Nope. Poverty: “just make it a felony” Addiction: “just make it a felony” Laziness: “just make it a felony” You fail to understand the myriad of reasons of why someone might be homeless. Some might — in sound state or mind — choose it and others might be mentally unwell to “try as hard as possible to hold on to work, housing and their families”. Greater investments in mental health, subsidized housing or building more affordable housing for the vulnerable — those who work one or more jobs on the verge of losing their housing and other such programs can help mitigate homelessness.
- anovikov 4y ago
  Being a puppet state of Putin with a terrible human rights record is one thing. Doing a good job at protecting law-abiding citizens from bums is another. Belarus is a safe country to live in. And no, they don't just send every bum they catch to prison. They have a sorting and distribution system in place that directs them to either mental hospitals, rehabs, or prisons (most go to rehabs for alcoholics), after that, they provide them jobs (usually shitty jobs on useless state-owned factories, or cleaning streets) and housing (dormitory rooms), and check on them on a regular basis to prevent relapse, if caught again bumming or avoiding work, yes then they go to prison. A state exists for the benefit or tax-paying, law-abiding public, and one of it's goals is to protect them from everyone else. And no, bums are sent to prison not to "fix" them, or even isolate, but to deter potential other ones from bumming (and it does a great job, because number of bums in prison is very low, and there are almost 0 bums in the streets). Prison must be hell and even bums should be scared to death at the prospect of getting there. Subsidised housing - that can't work in a country like USA. Because if you give housing to bums, all housing in the vicinity becomes a lot cheaper and the value lost, and property taxes lost, will become so unbearably high it's better to leave them in the streets. There must be no bums. People must know that staying out in the street is a very bad idea. Now they only do because they can.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    “ Therefore, the legislation of the Republic of Belarus does not contain prohibitions on eating, sleeping, or performing personal hygienic activities in public places. The only exception is begging, which is unacceptable in cases where children or adolescents are involved in it, slave labor of beggars is used or beggars are trafficked. The laws does not imply tougher penalties for those who are unable to pay the fine as well” [1] [2] [1] https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/BelarusHelsinkiCommittee.docx https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/BelarusHel... [2] https://www.ohchr.org/en/calls-for-input/2021/call-input-decriminalization-homelessness-and-extreme-poverty https://www.ohchr.org/en/calls-for-input/2021/call-input-dec... Is there a link to a page where I can read about this Belarusian law?
uejfiweun 4y ago
I suspect you will receive some downvotes and some "how dare you" type comments, but I completely agree. This problem is getting worse and worse, it's ruining entire cities at this point, and whatever policies we have now clearly aren't working. Expand the housing projects, create jobs programs, make it as easy as possible for these people to become responsible citizens, but don't tolerate crazy people living on the streets doing hard drugs and harassing and assaulting normal citizens.
- trinovantes 4y ago
  Tried everything except ensuring housing is affordable but instead turned it into an investment asset "I think lack of affordable housing is a problem but I have some concerns in my neighborhood" - Everybody Let this simmer for a few decades and combine with opioid crisis, you get SF/LA
  - anovikov 4y ago
    But this is simply a law enforcement problem and nothing else. Just put appropriate legislation in and remove them from the streets and make sure no one returns. As easy as that.
    - trinovantes 4y ago
      Who won the war on drugs? Law enforcement without actually addressing the core issue is simply hiding the symptoms
      - anovikov 4y ago
        In case of war on drugs, there was narco mafia on the other end. This one is easier, no one wants bums except bums themselves.

Someone 4y ago

Take care of the mentally ill, provide a basic income and affordable housing for the financially less of, provide shelters for those who suddenly need it (e.g. after an eviction, or because of abuse), don’t jail people for minor things such as drugs use, don’t put a stigma on criminals who have served their time. That should get us close, but I don’t think it is possible to reach zero homelessness. There always will be some vagabonds who will wander around from short temporary job to short temporary job, and occasionally will sleep on the street. Always give them the option of temporary shelter, a place to clean them up, but as long as they don’t do harm to society, don’t force them to have a home.

CelticBard 4y ago

HN running for president when

frozencell 4y ago
That's the premise of Crypto but HN is focused on the scams not politics or blockchain theory.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]