9 ms·

Apple and the Kindle

163 points by samrat 15y ago

danso 15y ago
"And this is all before I’ve even got to the disastrous incompatibilities between the Kindle device, the Kindle for Mac app, the Kindle for iOS app, the Kindle Online Reader (read.amazon.com), and the kindle.amazon.com social network — all of which are full of gruesome interface annoyances of their own." I just bought a Kindle, and besides my first attempt at buying one resulted in returning it to Best Buy because of a damaged screen, I love it. I had been reading Kindle books in my iPad and also loved the app experience. Mostly, the ability to highlight and annotate at will, and have an online repository of that to refer to, were the little details that sold me. But what are the incompatibilities that he refers to? However, on the $79 kindle, the details are definitely flubbed. The page turning/return/home screen keys make no logical sense. I apparently ordered one of those "Special Offers" by total accident...I must have pressed a confirm button when I meant to press whatever the hell stands for the "Cancel" button. At $40 (for an interior design class), that's almost half the Kindle retail price. Not a bad monetization plan, I guess.
- ianferrel 15y ago
  I'm 100% sure you can cancel whatever you accidentally ordered on Amazon.com. Just like One-click ordering, the point is to make a purchase easy and let only the people who don't want to go through with it cancel, not to bilk people out of money via misclicks.
  - danso 15y ago
    So this "Special Offer" was a LivingSocial deal. I would agree with you but I looked over the email many times, and my own account page. There is not only no easily visible option to cancel, there is no email contact. I have to call to complain. Even more befuddling is that every Amazon purchase I have ever made has resulted in a confirmation email minutes after the purchase. This "Special Offer"'s confirmation came to me at 2AM, well after I went to bed. I'm willing to chalk this up to me mistakenly hitting the buttons and ordering the offer while awake and that there's a delay to process it on the LivingSocial end. Either way, it was not reassuring.
    - ConstantineXVI 15y ago
      Amazon seems to delay the confirmations on some of their digital purchases; definitely MP3s and maybe video (IIRC). Believe at least in those cases, it's to make the CC processors happy (batching lots of small single purchases). Apple does the same thing for the iTunes/App store, though it seems to be on the scale of days instead of hours there. edit: to be clear, by "delay the confirmations" I meant to say "delay the actual purchase"; the purchase(s) doesn't actually get charged until their time threshold hits.
      - irons 15y ago
        Nothing makes CC processors happier than many tiny transactions. Apple and Amazon defer and batch transactions in order to save a fortune on transaction fees, which traditionally involve a fixed cost on the order of tens of cents, plus a much smaller percentage of the total. It's a huge bite of a ~$1 purchase.
        ConstantineXVI 15y ago
        What I meant to say. Way too long of a debugging session earlier...
  - Selvik 15y ago
    Yep, I've cancelled digital audiobooks from audible (owned by amazon, if memory serves me right) and even books sent to the wrong address in europe (full refund).
  - rmc 15y ago
    I'm 100% sure you can cancel whatever you accidentally ordered on Amazon.com. Amazon, in my experience, are very good with returns & customer service. However, for the record of other readers, if you're in the EU, then you are legally entitled to a refund on anything you buy online within 7 days, even if you buy it non-accidentally and you've just changed your mind. cf. http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/dist_sell/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/dist_sell/i...
- dfc 15y ago
  You have thirty days to return your "accidentally ordered" kindle. What's the issue?
- dfc 15y ago
  "At $40 for an interior design class"? What is the connection between interior design and the kindle? And/or what is the connection between the monetization plan of a night class at a CC and the kindle?
  - dfc 15y ago
    Why would somebody downvote my question? Is it inappropriate to ask someone what they meant?
    - msbarnett 15y ago
      He has a Kindle with Special Offers, and at one point accidentally bought one of the Special Offers that came up, said offer being $40 for a class on interior design. His post seemed fairly straight-forward, so people appear to be downvoting you for asking a question that a cursory re-reading of it should have made clear.
      - dfc 15y ago
        It was not clear to me that he purchased one of the offers by accident. I thought he meant he accidentally ordered one of the subsidized kindles by accident.
        esrauch 15y ago
        I also thought that was what he meant.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - danso 15y ago
    Sorry about the confusion. Hey, I'm confused too :)
- dfc 15y ago
  Do the special offers have anything to do with your reading materials? Do you have design/architecture books on the kindle? Do you think ther offers targeted towards your demographic?
- mikecane 15y ago
  If you haven't returned the Kindle yet, pay the difference to remove the ads: Amazon Charged me $30 to get the Adverts Off my K4 http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/10/05/amazon-charged-me-30-to-get-the-adverts-off-my-k4/ http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/10/05/amazon-charged-...
  - just_testing 15y ago
    You can also go to the folder "assets", under "system", delete all contents then chmod 444. That folder has all the special offers. The Kindle turns the permissions back to the default, but since I don't usually turn on the wifi, I only have to deal with the kindle asking me to go online to see the special offers.
breck 15y ago
> Or (and this is incredibly aggravating) when you select a word in the Kindle, depending on how common a word it is, the option that comes up highlighted by default is either “full definition” or “start highlight”. Since e-ink’s refresh rate is so slow, you typically don’t see what’s actually come up until you’ve pressed the button for the second time. So I often “double click” on words to highlight them, but some percentage of the time this kicks me over into the dictionary and I have to hit back twice to get out. I'm on my third Kindle. The latest one, sans keyboard, is the first to have this problem. It's so annoying. Literally sometimes I'll be in the middle of a great passage and try to highlight it and then I'm brought to the dictionary page for a word like "the". Is there anyone on here who is on the Kindle team and knows when a fix for this will come out? *Also, as a general commentary, I think the Kindle is a revolutionary device. Moreso than the iPad. I think Bezos knows full well what he is doing and would prefer to keep it under the radar how absolutely amazing and big this thing is going to be. It shocks me that Apple hasn't come out with an eInk reader yet. It's an order of magnitude better for reading than an iPad.
- euroclydon 15y ago
  After reading ebooks on my iPhone and now iPad, I couldn't go back to the kindle. The UI was just so terrible and slow. I use white on black for night time reading, and can still fall asleep. Incidentally, this is the same reason I could only use Duck Duck Go for one day before going back to Google search. The Google search UI has just spoiled me with its responsiveness.
  - breck 15y ago
    > The UI was just so terrible and slow. Have you tried the latest one? It's noticeably faster. Worth the $79. (And I'll get the touch screen as soon as it's available). > I use white on black for night time reading, and can still fall asleep. I've heard this from multiple people. I should try it. I read my Kindle on occasion for hours and hours. Not only does it not hurt my eyes, but it's so light. The iPad is quite heavy. I really wonder if Apple will ever come out with an eInk screen. After reading how upset Jobs got over Android ripping off the iPhone, I kind of think that maybe they never will and that they'll just let Amazon have that market.
jgrahamc 15y ago
To me the Kindle has two killer features: the screen (because I can read it like paper for hours) and its weight (can hold it for hours like a paperback book). Those two things made it a 'wow' device. The 3G access made it effortless. None of those things seem very clever and have been pretty easily duplicated in the Nook. The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work.
- shrikant 15y ago
  > The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work. Yeah, and I'd lose the ability to side-load books, and would have to void the warranty on the device to be able to read books from non-approved sources. As someone who's never bought an e-book from Amazon for my Kindle, no thank you.
  - MrScruff 15y ago
    Are you inferring it's not possible to read material from a non-approved source on the iPad or iPhone? Because that's not the case. Neither is it the case with videos or music for that matter.
    - shrikant 15y ago
      Nope, I know all of the above (have both devices). I would think that when the primary use-case is reading, then books are to e-readers what apps are to smartphones, and I'm not really a fan of the "single point of acquisition" model.
      - falling 15y ago
        When the primary use case is reading, then books are to e-readers what music is to iPods.
      - msbarnett 15y ago
        If we want to know what terms Apple would apply to ebook readers and sell books under, we don't need to reason by analogy from the restrictions on smartphone app loading and the terms they use to sell apps for smartphones. They already sell ebooks and make ebook readers, which allow sideloading.
ffsdfsdfsda 15y ago
Lets compare Apples to Amazons here. Apple is reliant on its own products and their continued success. Amazon has a longer-term strategy that involves it selling any products that others come up with. In that context, who wins the battle? For now, it is even, but I don't see it staying that way. http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart2:symbol=aapl;range=my;compare=amzn;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart2:symbol=aapl;r...
dfc 15y ago
I cannot highlight/annotate samples. I have a second generation kindle. Is this a new feature of the newer models?
- colin_jack 15y ago
  Nope, you just click to start highlighting.
- dholowiski 15y ago
  You have this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amazon-kindle-gen2.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amazon-kindle-gen2.jpg I can on mine. I believe this was a software update... have you been out of 3g service (or had 3g turned off) for almost two years?
  - dfc 15y ago
    That's the one, firmware: 2.5.8 (555370010). I have 3g right now and just tried to highlight something in the samples for "Song of Two Worlds" as well as "SEAL of Honor" and was unable to. I also tried adding an annotation and when I started to type a message came up on the bottom of the screen that says, "Annotating is disabled for sample content."
- timdorr 15y ago
  Serious question: Why would you want to highlight or annotate a small sample of a book?
  - RandallBrown 15y ago
    Maybe you found that section particularly interesting and would like to look back at it later? Maybe you're reading the book for a class and instead of taking notes in the margin, you're taking notes on the Kindle. I actually find myself highlighting stuff all the time. You can also see areas of the book that other people highlighted, which adds a kinda neat social aspect that isn't usually present in reading.
joezydeco 15y ago
I have to wonder: does Apple spend more time playing with each new piece of technology internally before releasing it? I can see in the rush to launch that you can certainly hit 100% of your feature list and still not hit the things that count. When you see something like a ".com" key on the keyboard whenever an internet address is requested, you have to wonder if it wasn't in the original design but eventually someone played with it enough and thought it up.
cschep 15y ago
Aaron! Font size! Bigger!
- jc4p 15y ago
  Seriously. I have good eyes but if I have to zoom in at 300% on your page to be able to read it, something is definitely wrong.
  - docgnome 15y ago
    I've since given up hoping people will stop thinking that tiny, tiny fonts are awesome. Cause I guess nothing makes the article you wrote more awesome than making it impossible for humans to read. Readability, ftw. http://www.readability.com/ http://www.readability.com/
- Anti-Ratfish 15y ago
  iPhone and double tap font. There's something amusing about reading this particular article on an iPhone more easily than on a computer. Your right, it reads terribly on the desktop computer next to me.
mikecane 15y ago
Whatever UI ugliness exists in the Kindle and its apps don't matter much to most Kindle owners. They just want to read. [typo edit]
vegashacker 15y ago
I didn't know about Kindles being already logged in. That's clever--"out-Apple-ing Apple". I'd worry a bit about package thieves but that's probably mostly irrational.
subwindow 15y ago
So far I've had a pretty frustrating experience with the Kindle (Kindle 4 no keyboard, no touchscreen) from the get-go. Sure, the box was nice, but as soon as I powered it on it was frustrating. Since the Kindle was a gift, I had to enter in my Amazon account information before I could do anything else. Total buzzkill. I wanted to flip through a book and see what the screen was like and how it worked, but instead I have to laboriously type in my 35-character password like I'm using an NES controller. After that, there's no sample books on there- you'd think they could put a public domain book on there for free. Every MP3 player I've ever bought comes with a few sample songs. Ok, fine. Now I have to hook it up to my computer via USB. Put an epub file on there. It doesn't support epub? Ok, fine. Put an RTF file on there. That doesn't work. Ok, fine. Finally put a .txt file on there of a book I'm halfway through the paper version of. Apparently the Kindle has a weird concept of pages for txt documents, so I have to hit the "Next Page" button 97 times, or guess what "location" I'm at (1456 out of 4452 I guess?) and enter that in. All of that frustration, in the first 30 minutes, just to get an idea of what it is like to read on it and page through a book. Never had that kind of experience with an Apple product. "Unboxing" experiences with Apple products have become a religious experience for a reason. Amazon is still far short of that.
- phxrsng 15y ago
  My iPods (1G and Video) never had sample songs on them. Just saying.
- hyperbovine 15y ago
  .txt files are not paginated to begin with. There is a physical keyboard option available for people who insist on having 35-character passwords.
- WalterBright 15y ago
  On the other hand, when you get a Kindle in the mail you don't have to connect it to a computer with iTunes on it to get it to work. I can also load books from my computer onto the Kindle using drag-and-drop without needing iTunes (or any Amazon software) installed.
  - 15y ago
tlrobinson 15y ago
I loved my Kindle(s), but the screens are very fragile. I've already cracked two of them. If you have a Kindle, you need a case, and should never take it out. iPads seem much more durable (and indeed heavier)
davidw 15y ago
I love my Kindle. One of the best tech buys in recent memory. The thing I want to be able to do is share books with my wife as if they were 'real books'. In other words, one of us at a time gets a lock on it, but there's no time limit.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  She's your wife. Trade Kindles for the day.
  - davidw 15y ago
    It'd get kind of awkward quickly, as I read books at a much faster rate than she does, so I'd always be loaning myself books from my Kindle, while she meanders her way through my books. All in all, not an ideal solution given what the technology should enable us to do.
- marchdown 15y ago
  Well, it's not exactly an unforseen problem. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
slyall 15y ago
I wish they had the same "attention to detail" on their website. One reason I stopped buying from them was every time I went to the website I was bombarded for offers for Amazon Prime, Credits Cards, Free Shipping and other products. The problem was that if I clicked on any of those offers the website would eventually work out I was a non-US user and tell me I wasn't eligible. But Amazon already knew that when they showed me the offers in the first place. Any site that has 30% of their frontpage taunting me with cool stuff I can't buy obvious doesn't want me as a customer.
mih 15y ago
> small details that delight get buried under small details that annoy Must point that even Apple software/hardware have their own trivial features that prove to be annoying for some users (remember no right-click anyone?). Amazon has achieved a very usable device with the Kindle in such a short foray into consumer electronics, for which Apple has had around 3 decades of experience to build on. Here's to hoping attention to detail and UX takes giant strides at Amazon improving upon what is already a very good product.
- dfc 15y ago
  Remember no right-click anyone?" I have yet to forget the right click and more importantly middle click...
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
I was a big fan of the original Kindle's wheel navigation. It just felt right, like a Model M keyboard.
tomkarlo 15y ago
There's a theory of interpersonal relationships that says you need 4-5 positive interactions to balance every 1 negative interaction, if a friendship / relationship is to be sustainable. I'd argue that with devices and software, that ratio goes way up - maybe at least 10:1 or 20:1. That's why even a small annoyance can balance a largely positive experience.
venuj 15y ago
I used to be quite skeptical of Kindle and a dedicated book reading device until I was gifted a Kindle. My wife got tired of my buying hundreds of books and having it fill up the house and the Kindle TV ad did the trick. Now that I've used it for a few months, I'm a Kindle convert. I carry it with me all the time - conveniently fits into my coat pocket and weighs so little - and I whip it out whenever I'm a line or at an airport and all those otherwise wasted time. It has remarkable battery life - I normally get 2-3 weeks between charges - and more if I turn off WiFi. The more I use it, the more I like all the small details which while quirky and not quite upto iPad levels of overall usability adds up to a very convenient book reading experience. I used to lament the space wasted on the physical keyboard but I'm not such a fan of the new touch Kindles. Now I wish I had all my books on my Kindle.
6ren 15y ago
> lifetime unlimited worldwide data plan Unfortunately the web-browser that makes this useful (beyond buying books) is still labeled "experimental", years later. Meaning it can be dropped at any time.
microkernel 15y ago
I really wonder why no ones mentions typography. In terms of great typesetting the Kindle is somewhere in the 60's. Since at least LaTEX (not talking about Adobe and Apple products) ligatures and other niceties found their way into computers. Any by all means - this is a dedicated reading-machine! I still love my Kindle, mainly for jgrahamc's reasons.
ZeroGravitas 15y ago
I'm beginning to develop a theory that this kind of Apple-fandom is somewhere between being an audiophile and a mentally contagious form of OCD. I've had complete strangers, totally normal people (picture the exact opposite of a stereotypical techie), raving to me in a shop about how great their Kindle is because they saw me play with the demo device. That's a home run in anyone's language. But Aaron, who seems to have trained himself to appreciate the finer details, has this joyous experience ruined for him in much the same way a wine snob can no longer enjoy an even passable glass of wine. I guess the missing factor is how much effort is expended on these nicities versus the return on that investment. If the text below a main icon is cut off, is that a sign of how shoddily the entire thing is put together, or is it simply not important, compared with the many benefits the device gives you?
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  Its just annoying, even insulting, that something that could have been fixed, permanently, for everybody, was let out the door with that stain on it. Unlike wine, software CAN be (nearly) perfect for everybody, every time.

163 points by samrat 15y ago

danso 15y ago

"And this is all before I’ve even got to the disastrous incompatibilities between the Kindle device, the Kindle for Mac app, the Kindle for iOS app, the Kindle Online Reader (read.amazon.com), and the kindle.amazon.com social network — all of which are full of gruesome interface annoyances of their own." I just bought a Kindle, and besides my first attempt at buying one resulted in returning it to Best Buy because of a damaged screen, I love it. I had been reading Kindle books in my iPad and also loved the app experience. Mostly, the ability to highlight and annotate at will, and have an online repository of that to refer to, were the little details that sold me. But what are the incompatibilities that he refers to? However, on the $79 kindle, the details are definitely flubbed. The page turning/return/home screen keys make no logical sense. I apparently ordered one of those "Special Offers" by total accident...I must have pressed a confirm button when I meant to press whatever the hell stands for the "Cancel" button. At $40 (for an interior design class), that's almost half the Kindle retail price. Not a bad monetization plan, I guess.

ianferrel 15y ago
I'm 100% sure you can cancel whatever you accidentally ordered on Amazon.com. Just like One-click ordering, the point is to make a purchase easy and let only the people who don't want to go through with it cancel, not to bilk people out of money via misclicks.
- danso 15y ago
  So this "Special Offer" was a LivingSocial deal. I would agree with you but I looked over the email many times, and my own account page. There is not only no easily visible option to cancel, there is no email contact. I have to call to complain. Even more befuddling is that every Amazon purchase I have ever made has resulted in a confirmation email minutes after the purchase. This "Special Offer"'s confirmation came to me at 2AM, well after I went to bed. I'm willing to chalk this up to me mistakenly hitting the buttons and ordering the offer while awake and that there's a delay to process it on the LivingSocial end. Either way, it was not reassuring.
  - ConstantineXVI 15y ago
    Amazon seems to delay the confirmations on some of their digital purchases; definitely MP3s and maybe video (IIRC). Believe at least in those cases, it's to make the CC processors happy (batching lots of small single purchases). Apple does the same thing for the iTunes/App store, though it seems to be on the scale of days instead of hours there. edit: to be clear, by "delay the confirmations" I meant to say "delay the actual purchase"; the purchase(s) doesn't actually get charged until their time threshold hits.
    - irons 15y ago
      Nothing makes CC processors happier than many tiny transactions. Apple and Amazon defer and batch transactions in order to save a fortune on transaction fees, which traditionally involve a fixed cost on the order of tens of cents, plus a much smaller percentage of the total. It's a huge bite of a ~$1 purchase.
      - ConstantineXVI 15y ago
        What I meant to say. Way too long of a debugging session earlier...
- Selvik 15y ago
  Yep, I've cancelled digital audiobooks from audible (owned by amazon, if memory serves me right) and even books sent to the wrong address in europe (full refund).
- rmc 15y ago
  I'm 100% sure you can cancel whatever you accidentally ordered on Amazon.com. Amazon, in my experience, are very good with returns & customer service. However, for the record of other readers, if you're in the EU, then you are legally entitled to a refund on anything you buy online within 7 days, even if you buy it non-accidentally and you've just changed your mind. cf. http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/dist_sell/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/dist_sell/i...
dfc 15y ago
You have thirty days to return your "accidentally ordered" kindle. What's the issue?
dfc 15y ago
"At $40 for an interior design class"? What is the connection between interior design and the kindle? And/or what is the connection between the monetization plan of a night class at a CC and the kindle?
- dfc 15y ago
  Why would somebody downvote my question? Is it inappropriate to ask someone what they meant?
  - msbarnett 15y ago
    He has a Kindle with Special Offers, and at one point accidentally bought one of the Special Offers that came up, said offer being $40 for a class on interior design. His post seemed fairly straight-forward, so people appear to be downvoting you for asking a question that a cursory re-reading of it should have made clear.
    - dfc 15y ago
      It was not clear to me that he purchased one of the offers by accident. I thought he meant he accidentally ordered one of the subsidized kindles by accident.
      - esrauch 15y ago
        I also thought that was what he meant.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- danso 15y ago
  Sorry about the confusion. Hey, I'm confused too :)
dfc 15y ago
Do the special offers have anything to do with your reading materials? Do you have design/architecture books on the kindle? Do you think ther offers targeted towards your demographic?
mikecane 15y ago
If you haven't returned the Kindle yet, pay the difference to remove the ads: Amazon Charged me $30 to get the Adverts Off my K4 http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/10/05/amazon-charged-me-30-to-get-the-adverts-off-my-k4/ http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/10/05/amazon-charged-...
- just_testing 15y ago
  You can also go to the folder "assets", under "system", delete all contents then chmod 444. That folder has all the special offers. The Kindle turns the permissions back to the default, but since I don't usually turn on the wifi, I only have to deal with the kindle asking me to go online to see the special offers.

breck 15y ago

> Or (and this is incredibly aggravating) when you select a word in the Kindle, depending on how common a word it is, the option that comes up highlighted by default is either “full definition” or “start highlight”. Since e-ink’s refresh rate is so slow, you typically don’t see what’s actually come up until you’ve pressed the button for the second time. So I often “double click” on words to highlight them, but some percentage of the time this kicks me over into the dictionary and I have to hit back twice to get out. I'm on my third Kindle. The latest one, sans keyboard, is the first to have this problem. It's so annoying. Literally sometimes I'll be in the middle of a great passage and try to highlight it and then I'm brought to the dictionary page for a word like "the". Is there anyone on here who is on the Kindle team and knows when a fix for this will come out? *Also, as a general commentary, I think the Kindle is a revolutionary device. Moreso than the iPad. I think Bezos knows full well what he is doing and would prefer to keep it under the radar how absolutely amazing and big this thing is going to be. It shocks me that Apple hasn't come out with an eInk reader yet. It's an order of magnitude better for reading than an iPad.

euroclydon 15y ago
After reading ebooks on my iPhone and now iPad, I couldn't go back to the kindle. The UI was just so terrible and slow. I use white on black for night time reading, and can still fall asleep. Incidentally, this is the same reason I could only use Duck Duck Go for one day before going back to Google search. The Google search UI has just spoiled me with its responsiveness.
- breck 15y ago
  > The UI was just so terrible and slow. Have you tried the latest one? It's noticeably faster. Worth the $79. (And I'll get the touch screen as soon as it's available). > I use white on black for night time reading, and can still fall asleep. I've heard this from multiple people. I should try it. I read my Kindle on occasion for hours and hours. Not only does it not hurt my eyes, but it's so light. The iPad is quite heavy. I really wonder if Apple will ever come out with an eInk screen. After reading how upset Jobs got over Android ripping off the iPhone, I kind of think that maybe they never will and that they'll just let Amazon have that market.

jgrahamc 15y ago

To me the Kindle has two killer features: the screen (because I can read it like paper for hours) and its weight (can hold it for hours like a paperback book). Those two things made it a 'wow' device. The 3G access made it effortless. None of those things seem very clever and have been pretty easily duplicated in the Nook. The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work.

shrikant 15y ago
> The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work. Yeah, and I'd lose the ability to side-load books, and would have to void the warranty on the device to be able to read books from non-approved sources. As someone who's never bought an e-book from Amazon for my Kindle, no thank you.
- MrScruff 15y ago
  Are you inferring it's not possible to read material from a non-approved source on the iPad or iPhone? Because that's not the case. Neither is it the case with videos or music for that matter.
  - shrikant 15y ago
    Nope, I know all of the above (have both devices). I would think that when the primary use-case is reading, then books are to e-readers what apps are to smartphones, and I'm not really a fan of the "single point of acquisition" model.
    - falling 15y ago
      When the primary use case is reading, then books are to e-readers what music is to iPods.
    - msbarnett 15y ago
      If we want to know what terms Apple would apply to ebook readers and sell books under, we don't need to reason by analogy from the restrictions on smartphone app loading and the terms they use to sell apps for smartphones. They already sell ebooks and make ebook readers, which allow sideloading.

ffsdfsdfsda 15y ago

Lets compare Apples to Amazons here. Apple is reliant on its own products and their continued success. Amazon has a longer-term strategy that involves it selling any products that others come up with. In that context, who wins the battle? For now, it is even, but I don't see it staying that way. http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart2:symbol=aapl;range=my;compare=amzn;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart2:symbol=aapl;r...

dfc 15y ago

I cannot highlight/annotate samples. I have a second generation kindle. Is this a new feature of the newer models?

colin_jack 15y ago
Nope, you just click to start highlighting.
dholowiski 15y ago
You have this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amazon-kindle-gen2.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amazon-kindle-gen2.jpg I can on mine. I believe this was a software update... have you been out of 3g service (or had 3g turned off) for almost two years?
- dfc 15y ago
  That's the one, firmware: 2.5.8 (555370010). I have 3g right now and just tried to highlight something in the samples for "Song of Two Worlds" as well as "SEAL of Honor" and was unable to. I also tried adding an annotation and when I started to type a message came up on the bottom of the screen that says, "Annotating is disabled for sample content."
timdorr 15y ago
Serious question: Why would you want to highlight or annotate a small sample of a book?
- RandallBrown 15y ago
  Maybe you found that section particularly interesting and would like to look back at it later? Maybe you're reading the book for a class and instead of taking notes in the margin, you're taking notes on the Kindle. I actually find myself highlighting stuff all the time. You can also see areas of the book that other people highlighted, which adds a kinda neat social aspect that isn't usually present in reading.

joezydeco 15y ago

I have to wonder: does Apple spend more time playing with each new piece of technology internally before releasing it? I can see in the rush to launch that you can certainly hit 100% of your feature list and still not hit the things that count. When you see something like a ".com" key on the keyboard whenever an internet address is requested, you have to wonder if it wasn't in the original design but eventually someone played with it enough and thought it up.

cschep 15y ago

Aaron! Font size! Bigger!

jc4p 15y ago
Seriously. I have good eyes but if I have to zoom in at 300% on your page to be able to read it, something is definitely wrong.
- docgnome 15y ago
  I've since given up hoping people will stop thinking that tiny, tiny fonts are awesome. Cause I guess nothing makes the article you wrote more awesome than making it impossible for humans to read. Readability, ftw. http://www.readability.com/ http://www.readability.com/
Anti-Ratfish 15y ago
iPhone and double tap font. There's something amusing about reading this particular article on an iPhone more easily than on a computer. Your right, it reads terribly on the desktop computer next to me.

mikecane 15y ago

Whatever UI ugliness exists in the Kindle and its apps don't matter much to most Kindle owners. They just want to read. [typo edit]

vegashacker 15y ago

I didn't know about Kindles being already logged in. That's clever--"out-Apple-ing Apple". I'd worry a bit about package thieves but that's probably mostly irrational.

subwindow 15y ago

So far I've had a pretty frustrating experience with the Kindle (Kindle 4 no keyboard, no touchscreen) from the get-go. Sure, the box was nice, but as soon as I powered it on it was frustrating. Since the Kindle was a gift, I had to enter in my Amazon account information before I could do anything else. Total buzzkill. I wanted to flip through a book and see what the screen was like and how it worked, but instead I have to laboriously type in my 35-character password like I'm using an NES controller. After that, there's no sample books on there- you'd think they could put a public domain book on there for free. Every MP3 player I've ever bought comes with a few sample songs. Ok, fine. Now I have to hook it up to my computer via USB. Put an epub file on there. It doesn't support epub? Ok, fine. Put an RTF file on there. That doesn't work. Ok, fine. Finally put a .txt file on there of a book I'm halfway through the paper version of. Apparently the Kindle has a weird concept of pages for txt documents, so I have to hit the "Next Page" button 97 times, or guess what "location" I'm at (1456 out of 4452 I guess?) and enter that in. All of that frustration, in the first 30 minutes, just to get an idea of what it is like to read on it and page through a book. Never had that kind of experience with an Apple product. "Unboxing" experiences with Apple products have become a religious experience for a reason. Amazon is still far short of that.

phxrsng 15y ago
My iPods (1G and Video) never had sample songs on them. Just saying.
hyperbovine 15y ago
.txt files are not paginated to begin with. There is a physical keyboard option available for people who insist on having 35-character passwords.
WalterBright 15y ago
On the other hand, when you get a Kindle in the mail you don't have to connect it to a computer with iTunes on it to get it to work. I can also load books from my computer onto the Kindle using drag-and-drop without needing iTunes (or any Amazon software) installed.
- 15y ago

tlrobinson 15y ago

I loved my Kindle(s), but the screens are very fragile. I've already cracked two of them. If you have a Kindle, you need a case, and should never take it out. iPads seem much more durable (and indeed heavier)

davidw 15y ago

I love my Kindle. One of the best tech buys in recent memory. The thing I want to be able to do is share books with my wife as if they were 'real books'. In other words, one of us at a time gets a lock on it, but there's no time limit.

sliverstorm 15y ago
She's your wife. Trade Kindles for the day.
- davidw 15y ago
  It'd get kind of awkward quickly, as I read books at a much faster rate than she does, so I'd always be loaning myself books from my Kindle, while she meanders her way through my books. All in all, not an ideal solution given what the technology should enable us to do.
marchdown 15y ago
Well, it's not exactly an unforseen problem. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

slyall 15y ago

I wish they had the same "attention to detail" on their website. One reason I stopped buying from them was every time I went to the website I was bombarded for offers for Amazon Prime, Credits Cards, Free Shipping and other products. The problem was that if I clicked on any of those offers the website would eventually work out I was a non-US user and tell me I wasn't eligible. But Amazon already knew that when they showed me the offers in the first place. Any site that has 30% of their frontpage taunting me with cool stuff I can't buy obvious doesn't want me as a customer.

mih 15y ago

> small details that delight get buried under small details that annoy Must point that even Apple software/hardware have their own trivial features that prove to be annoying for some users (remember no right-click anyone?). Amazon has achieved a very usable device with the Kindle in such a short foray into consumer electronics, for which Apple has had around 3 decades of experience to build on. Here's to hoping attention to detail and UX takes giant strides at Amazon improving upon what is already a very good product.

dfc 15y ago
Remember no right-click anyone?" I have yet to forget the right click and more importantly middle click...

MatthewPhillips 15y ago

I was a big fan of the original Kindle's wheel navigation. It just felt right, like a Model M keyboard.

tomkarlo 15y ago

There's a theory of interpersonal relationships that says you need 4-5 positive interactions to balance every 1 negative interaction, if a friendship / relationship is to be sustainable. I'd argue that with devices and software, that ratio goes way up - maybe at least 10:1 or 20:1. That's why even a small annoyance can balance a largely positive experience.

venuj 15y ago

I used to be quite skeptical of Kindle and a dedicated book reading device until I was gifted a Kindle. My wife got tired of my buying hundreds of books and having it fill up the house and the Kindle TV ad did the trick. Now that I've used it for a few months, I'm a Kindle convert. I carry it with me all the time - conveniently fits into my coat pocket and weighs so little - and I whip it out whenever I'm a line or at an airport and all those otherwise wasted time. It has remarkable battery life - I normally get 2-3 weeks between charges - and more if I turn off WiFi. The more I use it, the more I like all the small details which while quirky and not quite upto iPad levels of overall usability adds up to a very convenient book reading experience. I used to lament the space wasted on the physical keyboard but I'm not such a fan of the new touch Kindles. Now I wish I had all my books on my Kindle.

6ren 15y ago

> lifetime unlimited worldwide data plan Unfortunately the web-browser that makes this useful (beyond buying books) is still labeled "experimental", years later. Meaning it can be dropped at any time.

microkernel 15y ago

I really wonder why no ones mentions typography. In terms of great typesetting the Kindle is somewhere in the 60's. Since at least LaTEX (not talking about Adobe and Apple products) ligatures and other niceties found their way into computers. Any by all means - this is a dedicated reading-machine! I still love my Kindle, mainly for jgrahamc's reasons.

ZeroGravitas 15y ago

I'm beginning to develop a theory that this kind of Apple-fandom is somewhere between being an audiophile and a mentally contagious form of OCD. I've had complete strangers, totally normal people (picture the exact opposite of a stereotypical techie), raving to me in a shop about how great their Kindle is because they saw me play with the demo device. That's a home run in anyone's language. But Aaron, who seems to have trained himself to appreciate the finer details, has this joyous experience ruined for him in much the same way a wine snob can no longer enjoy an even passable glass of wine. I guess the missing factor is how much effort is expended on these nicities versus the return on that investment. If the text below a main icon is cut off, is that a sign of how shoddily the entire thing is put together, or is it simply not important, compared with the many benefits the device gives you?

JoeAltmaier 15y ago
Its just annoying, even insulting, that something that could have been fixed, permanently, for everybody, was let out the door with that stain on it. Unlike wine, software CAN be (nearly) perfect for everybody, every time.