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Sorry, yes, you're right about the DNR. The rest, I like your comment and don't doubt your personal experience, but we will have to disagree on the typical exp

Sorry, yes, you're right about the DNR. The rest, I like your comment and don't doubt your personal experience, but we will have to disagree on the typical experience. Hotels do win chargebacks for damages and get most people to go along with them. Those contracts aren't toothless and you've probably noticed communication about responsibility for damages and required signatures has improved over the last couple decades. At the same time, they're of course good at waiving accidents, small expenses if requested, etc. The room renter has always been responsible for damage. The room in most chains is checked between stays and, outside of unusual scenarios, it's customary for the guest to let the front desk know about existing problems as soon as possible to avoid assuming some responsibility.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
The customer might be responsible, but their credit cards’ bank is going to tell the hotel to pound sand. They want clear proof of the customers’ willingness to engage in that specific transaction, including the amount, and an agreement stating customer is liable for unspecified damages is not sufficient. Some hotel guests will not contest it, but I bet if they did, they would easily win the chargeback. How is the hotel even going to prove that smoking occurred in the room and by that guest? Ability to collect payment is the problem, even if you have a binding contract with a customer. > The room in most chains is checked between stays and, outside of unusual scenarios, it's customary for the guest to let the front desk know about existing problems as soon as possible to avoid assuming some responsibility. Ideally, and it might work in small claims court to state the hotel guest is responsible because they did not report the existing damage at check in. But the customer’s credit card bank is not going to care, and their burden of proof is pretty high. And as I wrote earlier, they can always just say “our merchant agreement prohibits charges for damage and non sales related transactions”.
- 1123581321 4y ago
  It goes back to the contract making the guest signing the paperwork, and handing over the credit card, responsible for damage, as well as managing evidence of details of the stay. The clear proof of that willingness is readily supplied by the hotel which has the paperwork. The verbal and visual presentation walkthrough of the paperwork creates expectations which reduce chargeback rates, but documentation those processes also accompany the chargeback documentation to build a case for the charge being previously agreed. Hotels don't have a "pound sound" relationship with banks, issuers and merchant accounts, but rather work together to come up with policies and paperwork that are more clear to customers so work better for everyone. Again, I understand that you have personally been successful with some chargebacks.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    No, I have been unsuccessful challenging chargebacks. I know many hotel owners, 50 to 200 key non resort type hotels), and do not know any hotel owner that has a relationship with any bank, issuer, or merchant processor. You buy the franchise from Hilton/Hyatt/etc, and then they force you to pay for the computer systems and merchant processors they contract with, and you have no choice in the matter. The hotel owner is the smallest player in this chain, and has zero leverage. If I had the paperwork handy, I would link you to a screenshot of what the chargeback paperwork says, and it is very clear that the issuing bank such as Chase/Wells Fargo/etc will state the credit card is not to be used for purposes of collecting payment for damages.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

The customer might be responsible, but their credit cards’ bank is going to tell the hotel to pound sand. They want clear proof of the customers’ willingness to engage in that specific transaction, including the amount, and an agreement stating customer is liable for unspecified damages is not sufficient. Some hotel guests will not contest it, but I bet if they did, they would easily win the chargeback. How is the hotel even going to prove that smoking occurred in the room and by that guest? Ability to collect payment is the problem, even if you have a binding contract with a customer. > The room in most chains is checked between stays and, outside of unusual scenarios, it's customary for the guest to let the front desk know about existing problems as soon as possible to avoid assuming some responsibility. Ideally, and it might work in small claims court to state the hotel guest is responsible because they did not report the existing damage at check in. But the customer’s credit card bank is not going to care, and their burden of proof is pretty high. And as I wrote earlier, they can always just say “our merchant agreement prohibits charges for damage and non sales related transactions”.

1123581321 4y ago
It goes back to the contract making the guest signing the paperwork, and handing over the credit card, responsible for damage, as well as managing evidence of details of the stay. The clear proof of that willingness is readily supplied by the hotel which has the paperwork. The verbal and visual presentation walkthrough of the paperwork creates expectations which reduce chargeback rates, but documentation those processes also accompany the chargeback documentation to build a case for the charge being previously agreed. Hotels don't have a "pound sound" relationship with banks, issuers and merchant accounts, but rather work together to come up with policies and paperwork that are more clear to customers so work better for everyone. Again, I understand that you have personally been successful with some chargebacks.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  No, I have been unsuccessful challenging chargebacks. I know many hotel owners, 50 to 200 key non resort type hotels), and do not know any hotel owner that has a relationship with any bank, issuer, or merchant processor. You buy the franchise from Hilton/Hyatt/etc, and then they force you to pay for the computer systems and merchant processors they contract with, and you have no choice in the matter. The hotel owner is the smallest player in this chain, and has zero leverage. If I had the paperwork handy, I would link you to a screenshot of what the chargeback paperwork says, and it is very clear that the issuing bank such as Chase/Wells Fargo/etc will state the credit card is not to be used for purposes of collecting payment for damages.