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What are the actual privacy/security issues with TikTok, concretely? Citizen Lab published a report last year - https://citizenlab.ca/2021/03/tiktok-vs-douyin-

by 4oh9do 4y ago

What are the actual privacy/security issues with TikTok, concretely? Citizen Lab published a report last year - https://citizenlab.ca/2021/03/tiktok-vs-douyin-security-privacy-analysis/ https://citizenlab.ca/2021/03/tiktok-vs-douyin-security-priv... - which found that the app does not engage in any overtly malicious behavior: > TikTok and Douyin do not appear to exhibit overtly malicious behavior similar to those exhibited by malware. We did not observe either app collecting contact lists, recording and sending photos, audio, videos or geolocation coordinates without user permission. And if there's any organization I trust about this sort of thing, it's Citizen lab, owing to their groundbreaking work around Pegasus and other APTs.

dylan604 4y ago
Not all malware is the same. If there was a malware bit of code that did nothing that brought attention to itself as it silently sat there retransmitting every piece of data you entered, every interaction with every website, every document created, etc, the owner of that malware would have access to so much information that they could so so many things with that data that may or may not directly affect the user of that device. That would not make that malware any less vile just because it didn't encrypt user data or something obviously hostile to the user like that attracting attention to itself. That type of malware is almost there with social media SDKs used in websites, apps, etc. There are ways that I can't even imagine that other people can imagine how to use that data for nefarious means.
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  Did you even read the parents link before spewing that?
_-david-_ 4y ago
Even if they are not doing anything bad now, they are controlled by the CCP and could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West. Not necessary. Our governments are doing a great job of this already.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    Our governments don't want our societies to collapse. I'm not sure China has the same care for our societies.
  - user_7832 4y ago
    >> could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West. >Not necessary. Our governments are doing a great job of this already. I'd say it's a bit more nuanced than that - foreign countries are already quite active even when most don't realize it. Major political moves have been influenced by foreign country/ies, regardless of which side of the Atlantic you are - see both Brexit and the 2016 US elections. theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/21/russian-meddling-brexit-referendum-tories-russia-report-government
gman83 4y ago
https://www.pcmag.com/news/leaked-audio-reveals-china-repeatedly-accessed-us-tiktok-user-data https://www.pcmag.com/news/leaked-audio-reveals-china-repeat...
Workaccount2 4y ago
We'll find out if China invades Taiwan and American youth overwhelmingly think America needs to stay out of it.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  I mean, why would the USA get into it? It’s an off topic question, but what do we gain from an independent Taiwan that’s worth getting into a war with China when we have so many issues domestically that need those resources?
  - unityByFreedom 4y ago
    Chips and shipping lanes.
  - stickfigure 4y ago
    To protect a democracy that demonstrates a benign alternative future for Chinese society.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      What if I prefer a more Chinese society than traditional western society?
      - stickfigure 4y ago
        Then you should find some people that voluntarily (ie, not at gunpoint) want that society, and live there. That's actually one of the great things about modern western society, it's very tolerant of people who want their own societies (as long as they aren't trying to impose them on everyone else). Obviously the Taiwanese aren't interested in living under the boot of the CCP. It's an interesting question what mainland Chinese would want if they didn't have the gun pointing at their head. Also, what on earth is traditional western society? Like, Greek?
darzu 4y ago
Let’s run a thought experiment: All videos get assigned a 0-1 anti- vs pro-CCP score. Videos with a >0.5 score get a slightly (~5%) better chance of being shown, and <0.5 is slightly penalized. This would be undetectable if the algorithm is run off device. Anti-CCP content would still play often. But on the massive scale TikTok runs, this would still tilt opinion favorably towards CCP.
- 4oh9do 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm aware of the any number of infinite Evil China (TM) hypotheticals. Let's put the sinophobia on hold for just a second, and answer my question: what are the practical (meaning documented) privacy/security concerns with TikTok? I linked to a report from a (gasp, Western) group showing that there weren't any, but I'm aware that the report is a year old, so I'm very interested in documented recent information, not just mindless anti-China ranting.
  - noptd 4y ago
    >sinophobia Purposely conflating China and the CCP, when the parent was criticizing the latter, is disingenuous at best. >mindless anti-China ranting And there goes arguing in good faith...
  - em3rgent0rdr 4y ago
    "documented". Unfortunately TikTok is closed source & proprietary. Though some privacy/security concerns can be gleaned via inspection of the binary and by viewing its network packets and such, it is still a black box running inside everyone's pocket.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
powerapple 4y ago
There is zero to worry about privacy because out of these social network apps, TikTok is the least invasive and doesn't really have much private information about users at all. About security, US may worry about what such a powerful platform can influence users. Think about how people were saying about Facebook when Trump was elected. And how US has been using Facebook in other countries to influence people.

by 4oh9do 4y ago

dylan604 4y ago

Not all malware is the same. If there was a malware bit of code that did nothing that brought attention to itself as it silently sat there retransmitting every piece of data you entered, every interaction with every website, every document created, etc, the owner of that malware would have access to so much information that they could so so many things with that data that may or may not directly affect the user of that device. That would not make that malware any less vile just because it didn't encrypt user data or something obviously hostile to the user like that attracting attention to itself. That type of malware is almost there with social media SDKs used in websites, apps, etc. There are ways that I can't even imagine that other people can imagine how to use that data for nefarious means.

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
Did you even read the parents link before spewing that?

_-david-_ 4y ago

Even if they are not doing anything bad now, they are controlled by the CCP and could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West.

AlexandrB 4y ago
> could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West. Not necessary. Our governments are doing a great job of this already.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  Our governments don't want our societies to collapse. I'm not sure China has the same care for our societies.
- user_7832 4y ago
  >> could push propaganda or other material to demoralize the West. >Not necessary. Our governments are doing a great job of this already. I'd say it's a bit more nuanced than that - foreign countries are already quite active even when most don't realize it. Major political moves have been influenced by foreign country/ies, regardless of which side of the Atlantic you are - see both Brexit and the 2016 US elections. theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/21/russian-meddling-brexit-referendum-tories-russia-report-government

gman83 4y ago

https://www.pcmag.com/news/leaked-audio-reveals-china-repeatedly-accessed-us-tiktok-user-data https://www.pcmag.com/news/leaked-audio-reveals-china-repeat...

Workaccount2 4y ago

We'll find out if China invades Taiwan and American youth overwhelmingly think America needs to stay out of it.

ok_dad 4y ago
I mean, why would the USA get into it? It’s an off topic question, but what do we gain from an independent Taiwan that’s worth getting into a war with China when we have so many issues domestically that need those resources?
- unityByFreedom 4y ago
  Chips and shipping lanes.
- stickfigure 4y ago
  To protect a democracy that demonstrates a benign alternative future for Chinese society.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    What if I prefer a more Chinese society than traditional western society?
    - stickfigure 4y ago
      Then you should find some people that voluntarily (ie, not at gunpoint) want that society, and live there. That's actually one of the great things about modern western society, it's very tolerant of people who want their own societies (as long as they aren't trying to impose them on everyone else). Obviously the Taiwanese aren't interested in living under the boot of the CCP. It's an interesting question what mainland Chinese would want if they didn't have the gun pointing at their head. Also, what on earth is traditional western society? Like, Greek?

darzu 4y ago

Let’s run a thought experiment: All videos get assigned a 0-1 anti- vs pro-CCP score. Videos with a >0.5 score get a slightly (~5%) better chance of being shown, and <0.5 is slightly penalized. This would be undetectable if the algorithm is run off device. Anti-CCP content would still play often. But on the massive scale TikTok runs, this would still tilt opinion favorably towards CCP.

4oh9do 4y ago
Yeah, I'm aware of the any number of infinite Evil China (TM) hypotheticals. Let's put the sinophobia on hold for just a second, and answer my question: what are the practical (meaning documented) privacy/security concerns with TikTok? I linked to a report from a (gasp, Western) group showing that there weren't any, but I'm aware that the report is a year old, so I'm very interested in documented recent information, not just mindless anti-China ranting.
- noptd 4y ago
  >sinophobia Purposely conflating China and the CCP, when the parent was criticizing the latter, is disingenuous at best. >mindless anti-China ranting And there goes arguing in good faith...
- em3rgent0rdr 4y ago
  "documented". Unfortunately TikTok is closed source & proprietary. Though some privacy/security concerns can be gleaned via inspection of the binary and by viewing its network packets and such, it is still a black box running inside everyone's pocket.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

powerapple 4y ago

There is zero to worry about privacy because out of these social network apps, TikTok is the least invasive and doesn't really have much private information about users at all. About security, US may worry about what such a powerful platform can influence users. Think about how people were saying about Facebook when Trump was elected. And how US has been using Facebook in other countries to influence people.