7 ms·

As a USA resident, which is more likely to adversely affect you: CCP collecting data on you, or US government collecting data on you?

loudmax 4y ago
[flagged]
- cute_boi 4y ago
  You failed on first line. They aren't democratically elected if there are only two choice: dems & republication. Both don't care about people, and constantly blames each other to divert people interest.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >The US government, imperfect as it is, is democratically elected by US citizens. Because of so much social media influencing, this is very much up for debate at this time from those that have been heavily influenced. That's just one example of how all of the social influence is just not good for society at large.
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  > The US government, imperfect as it is, is democratically elected by US citizens. The US president is elected by electors from the electoral college; the number of electors per state was influenced by the pro-slavery states. (Research the three-fifths-clause: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_Electoral_College#/Three-fifths_clause_and_the_role_of_slavery https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_Electoral_College#... ) Even soviet democracy is way more democratic than the US democracy: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Soviet_democracy https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Soviet_democracy
- miguelazo 4y ago
  Survey says most Americans don't think they live in a democracy, while vast majority of Chinese think they do. It's easy to see why when you think about how little the average Americans' interests are represented by their government. Not to mention the totally gerrymandered districts, voter suppression and absurd legalized corruption that says money=speech. https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176 https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democr...
  - tatrajim 4y ago
    >while vast majority of Chinese think they do What anonymous public opinion polls are EVER permitted in China? Where are polls on the popularity of various state leaders? On the Shanghai covid lockdown? On the investigation of the imprisoned Anhui woman? On continual WeChat censorship? Etc.
koolba 4y ago
That's like asking if you should be more worried about the common cold or Hepatitis B? Just because one is more likely doesn't mean the damage from the other won't be so catastrophic that it's the greater risk.
cj 4y ago
If Cambridge Analytica has taught us anything, we should be thinking from the perspective of what's in the best interest of society rather than best interest of an individual. I don't think CCCP data collection from TikTok would be very useful at targeting specific individuals. But the data set as a whole could be the equivalent of a nuclear bomb if exploited in pursuit of some nefarious goal (e.g. an outside country influencing the results of another country's political election)
- ok123456 4y ago
  The Cambridge Analytica "scandal" was just marketing by Facebook. It's no different than a billboard company putting something outrageous (e.g., advertising bull fighting) to prove that people actually pay attention to their ads.
noirbot 4y ago
I'd imagine most people happy about this would also be happy about the same thing happening to the US tech companies too. I don't see what your point is?
cercatrova 4y ago
Nit, the CCCP, or Союз Советских Социалистических Республик, is the Soviet Union. You probably meant the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party.
- jhallenworld 4y ago
  Oops, yes. Fixed.
bioemerl 4y ago
Ideally, neither would have much data on me. But in terms of potential harm, unquestionably China, unless I'm actively breaking US law. My hostilities with the United States government are an edge case, a risk to be managed. The government, for 9 in 10 people, is a good actor. China is a foreign actor. Unlike the US government it has zero checks and balances which I control, and should it use this data to compromise our government or fool the people I live with I expect the consequences to be far more damaging. They were caught not too long ago actually spreading environmental causes in Texas against rare earth mining. They were trying to leverage our political process to make us dependent on them. Tools like TikTok make them far more effective at these sorts of operations, and it would be incredibly foolish to trust them.
- ceh123 4y ago
  > They were caught not too long ago actually spreading environmental causes in Texas against rare earth mining. They were trying to leverage our political process to make us dependent on them. Do you have a source for this? I did some quick searching but couldn't find anything concrete. Super curious to learn more about this case if it's true.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    Here you go: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-is-trolling-rare-earth-miners-online-and-the-pentagon-isn-t-happy/ar-AAYYj7W?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cd401cf8a6ea41c6a6327afab8e42bd4 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-is-trolling-...
nonethewiser 4y ago
This is false choice. Why did you present it?
- jhallenworld 4y ago
  Well I think in general you have more personally to worry about from your own government (which can legally apply coercive force against you), vs. any foreign government, particularly an adversarial one, with no extradition treaty. Which is not to say that your own government shouldn't worry about national security- maybe the ban on TikTok could be more targeted, for example members of the government and military should not use it. Anyway I was thinking more about the spying, and not so much about the influencing.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
It's not an either/or choice. I don't want USA having that data either but that's not what this conversation is about. The CCP actively is genociding the Uyghurs and disappearing political dissenters. We are not the same. You do not want the CCP to get blackmail information on you especially if you work at a company they could potentially steal IP from.
bigcat12345678 4y ago
Till this day, there has been no hard evidence of tiktok collecting data on behalf of Chinese government. Yet, it's routinely connected to CCP without a trace of backing. So CCP is so bad that mere association is enough to deter any meaningful defense?

loudmax 4y ago

[flagged]

cute_boi 4y ago
You failed on first line. They aren't democratically elected if there are only two choice: dems & republication. Both don't care about people, and constantly blames each other to divert people interest.
dylan604 4y ago
>The US government, imperfect as it is, is democratically elected by US citizens. Because of so much social media influencing, this is very much up for debate at this time from those that have been heavily influenced. That's just one example of how all of the social influence is just not good for society at large.
fabianhjr 4y ago
> The US government, imperfect as it is, is democratically elected by US citizens. The US president is elected by electors from the electoral college; the number of electors per state was influenced by the pro-slavery states. (Research the three-fifths-clause: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_Electoral_College#/Three-fifths_clause_and_the_role_of_slavery https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_Electoral_College#... ) Even soviet democracy is way more democratic than the US democracy: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Soviet_democracy https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Soviet_democracy
miguelazo 4y ago
Survey says most Americans don't think they live in a democracy, while vast majority of Chinese think they do. It's easy to see why when you think about how little the average Americans' interests are represented by their government. Not to mention the totally gerrymandered districts, voter suppression and absurd legalized corruption that says money=speech. https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176 https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democr...
- tatrajim 4y ago
  >while vast majority of Chinese think they do What anonymous public opinion polls are EVER permitted in China? Where are polls on the popularity of various state leaders? On the Shanghai covid lockdown? On the investigation of the imprisoned Anhui woman? On continual WeChat censorship? Etc.

koolba 4y ago

That's like asking if you should be more worried about the common cold or Hepatitis B? Just because one is more likely doesn't mean the damage from the other won't be so catastrophic that it's the greater risk.

cj 4y ago

If Cambridge Analytica has taught us anything, we should be thinking from the perspective of what's in the best interest of society rather than best interest of an individual. I don't think CCCP data collection from TikTok would be very useful at targeting specific individuals. But the data set as a whole could be the equivalent of a nuclear bomb if exploited in pursuit of some nefarious goal (e.g. an outside country influencing the results of another country's political election)

ok123456 4y ago
The Cambridge Analytica "scandal" was just marketing by Facebook. It's no different than a billboard company putting something outrageous (e.g., advertising bull fighting) to prove that people actually pay attention to their ads.

noirbot 4y ago

I'd imagine most people happy about this would also be happy about the same thing happening to the US tech companies too. I don't see what your point is?

cercatrova 4y ago

Nit, the CCCP, or Союз Советских Социалистических Республик, is the Soviet Union. You probably meant the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party.

jhallenworld 4y ago
Oops, yes. Fixed.

bioemerl 4y ago

Ideally, neither would have much data on me. But in terms of potential harm, unquestionably China, unless I'm actively breaking US law. My hostilities with the United States government are an edge case, a risk to be managed. The government, for 9 in 10 people, is a good actor. China is a foreign actor. Unlike the US government it has zero checks and balances which I control, and should it use this data to compromise our government or fool the people I live with I expect the consequences to be far more damaging. They were caught not too long ago actually spreading environmental causes in Texas against rare earth mining. They were trying to leverage our political process to make us dependent on them. Tools like TikTok make them far more effective at these sorts of operations, and it would be incredibly foolish to trust them.

ceh123 4y ago
> They were caught not too long ago actually spreading environmental causes in Texas against rare earth mining. They were trying to leverage our political process to make us dependent on them. Do you have a source for this? I did some quick searching but couldn't find anything concrete. Super curious to learn more about this case if it's true.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  Here you go: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-is-trolling-rare-earth-miners-online-and-the-pentagon-isn-t-happy/ar-AAYYj7W?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cd401cf8a6ea41c6a6327afab8e42bd4 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-is-trolling-...

nonethewiser 4y ago

This is false choice. Why did you present it?

jhallenworld 4y ago
Well I think in general you have more personally to worry about from your own government (which can legally apply coercive force against you), vs. any foreign government, particularly an adversarial one, with no extradition treaty. Which is not to say that your own government shouldn't worry about national security- maybe the ban on TikTok could be more targeted, for example members of the government and military should not use it. Anyway I was thinking more about the spying, and not so much about the influencing.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

It's not an either/or choice. I don't want USA having that data either but that's not what this conversation is about. The CCP actively is genociding the Uyghurs and disappearing political dissenters. We are not the same. You do not want the CCP to get blackmail information on you especially if you work at a company they could potentially steal IP from.

bigcat12345678 4y ago

Till this day, there has been no hard evidence of tiktok collecting data on behalf of Chinese government. Yet, it's routinely connected to CCP without a trace of backing. So CCP is so bad that mere association is enough to deter any meaningful defense?