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TikTok updated privacy policy to collect faceprints and voiceprints (2021)
- fairytalemtg 4y agoBiometric identifiers, including faceprints and voiceprints. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3664942/fcc-commissioner-wants-apple-google-to-remove-tiktok-from-app-stores.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3664942/fcc-commission...
- yur3i__ 4y agoWorth noting that this article is from June 2021, still terrible but not a brand new change.
- tut-urut-utut 4y agoGreat news. The fact that a company from the unfriendly country collects biometrical data may finally provoke enough outrage that such data collection gets forbidden for everyone.
- mistrial9 4y agoexcept this is not new.. what is happening here?
- ziddoap 4y agoOne can dream. But, I would imagine any such hypothetical regulation would have specific carve-outs for the US-based companies collecting the same/similar data. Because $.
- belval 4y agoWon't hold my breath. The unfortunate truth is that most people aren't really bothered by any of this and/or fail to grasp it entirely. Bringing up that TikTok collects biometric data will usually be met with blank stares and/or someone implying that it's a conspiracy theory.
- krapp 4y agoIt won't, because the abortion data collection industry is is about to explode, along with whatever other data collection opportunities arise in the aftermath of the repeal of Roe v. Wade and the privacy arguments it depended upon. It seems far more likely to me that more US apps and services will be following TikTok's lead in the future, not fewer, and they will be more difficult to regulate.
- paskozdilar 4y agoI don't think it will. Invasive data collection benefits the powerful, and harms the individual. Nobody powerful gives a rat's ass about the individual.
- theplumber 4y agoNot really. Tiktok is bad because all of the sudden China became bad. It wasn't bad few years ago; some western countries such the UK loved to say how good China is. The U.S apps are "good" because they are PRISM-enabled and your have nothing to hide from the U.S gov, right?
- easytiger 4y ago> It wasn't bad few years ago; some western countries such the UK loved to say how good China is. Hmm. What are you basing this on?
- theplumber 4y agoA quick google search may bring you some results. Until very recently(i.e the Huawei thing) the main idea was that China is the best thing since the sliced bread. I believe leaving Europe and focusing on China was seen as the next step in trade and foreign policy. That didn't age well though... >> In 2015 George Osborne, the then chancellor, promised a ‘golden decade’ for Chinese-British relations as he drummed up support for new trade opportunities and inward investment.
- easytiger 4y agoThere was a lull when globalist enthusiasts, such as Osborne, were more than happy to sell us out. China is a distinct evil that should never have been allowed to hack our economic system with their hyper scale authoritarian meat-robot control systems. People are not people to the party any more than cells are alive to anyone making a game of life clone
- Brometheus 4y agoIt all started to go downhil when Xi decided he wanted to become the Chinese Kaiser.
- K0SM0S 4y agoUnless the lesson lies later down the road, when the biometrical of X billion people gets used for <insert nefarious purpose>. They say that we don't learn by knowing but by doing, and a significant part of the incentive to do is pain. The tragic irony lies in the fact that apparently, it only takes about 80 years to forget the last horrors —approximately one maximized average lifespan, makes sense I guess… Though what a piss-poor historical-attention span. Or about as much to collectively resign sensitivity to horror, as in the case of CCP-led China (1949-now). You know the problem with things that concerns everyone: everybody thinks somebody else is taking care of it; in the end nobody does.
- antonymy 4y agoI wish this was the case, but sadly people seem to have a massive blind spot when it comes to their own government having the same powers as the totalitarian CCP. One would think the implications are obvious and striking, impossible to miss, and yet I continually have to explain to people why these systems of surveillance are terrifying and inherently damaging to free societies.
- upupandup 4y agoA security researcher wrote an article while back and it was shocking to see how much data TikTok was collecting: - biometrics - what words are mentioned in the video, popularity - surrounding wifi, location data - your contacts (presumably to cross link to social media platforms) I just can't believe that a powerful country like America is letting a not-so-friendly military/civilian complex infiltrate it for somewhat unknown purpose.
- Krasnol 4y agoIt could become hard to argument since the rest of the US digital industry is collecting the same data. So why prevent it with one while allowing it with others?
- chii 4y agowould you not make the same argument for google?
- BobbyJo 4y agoDoesn't Google not operate in China for just this reason?
- crmd 4y agoGoogle is banned in China
- asimpletune 4y agoIf you’re china then absolutely
- runjake 4y agoYes, but Google is on our, well "my" side. I would expect an "adversary" nationstate, like China, to respond with similar alarm.
- SkyMarshal 4y agoChina has, they’ve banned most Western social media.
- paskozdilar 4y agoIt's a ticking time-bomb. Tick-tock.
- e40 4y agoWatchmen reference?
- paskozdilar 4y agoNo, I haven't watched Watchmen (heh). I just found the similarity between the app's name and onomatopoeia of a bomb countdown-timer funny.
- jstanley 4y agoDo they mean they're collecting faceprints and voiceprints of people viewing the videos? Or they're just doing it on videos that people are willingly uploading?
- Overtonwindow 4y agoTikTok is a perfect vehicle for collecting biometric data Americans, especially if you’re a totalitarian state.
- Larrikin 4y agoI wonder if Illinois residents will be eligible for another pay out like with Facebook and Google when they collected this data. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/did-you-receive-a-illinois-facebook-settlement-check-in-the-mail-heres-why-and-what-to-know-about-it/2839499/ https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/did-you-receive-a-illi...
- faitswulff 4y agoExactly what I was thinking. Who's responsible for filing these class action lawsuits, anyway?
- SkyMarshal 4y agoAnyone with standing, eg anyone who was harmed (and their lawyer).
- causi 4y agoInterior, crocodile, alligator, TikTok is a covert surveillance aggregator.
- theplumber 4y agoLike google, twitter, facebook, instagram, apple and more.
- noirbot 4y agoAt very least Twitter and Apple have a decent track record of declining to provide data without justification. It seems pretty safe to assume the Chinese government wouldn't have to ask at all to get any of this information.
- angio 4y agoApple was part of PRISM.
- theplumber 4y agoIf that's the standard we have on hackernews it's not that hard to imagine why the vast majority of people simply don't care who trades their data.
- noirbot 4y agoThat's not "the standard", it's just worth mentioning that at least some companies have a proper legal team that seems to work on behalf of its users. Twitter's actually been behind a number of legal precedents on the right to be anonymous online. I also don't speak for HN, clearly, since this post is full up on people who see no difference between "almost definitely has given full access to the government 24/7/365" and "Complies with reasonable court orders".
- SkyMarshal 4y agoExcept TikTok is operating on behalf of an authoritarian regime with no protection for human rights, freedom of speech or thought, rule of law, separation and balance of power, or any of those quaint things.
- theplumber 4y agoI don't think we need pandasecurity to tell us that. I believe the same info was/is gathered by facebook, google and more or less Apple. I guess double standards are still easier and better for the U.S instead to "empower" the individuals to own their data and secure their communication.
- zip1234 4y agoThe same info is not gathered by American big tech. There is much more in the way of privacy controls in those companies. Source: work for one.
- rvz 4y agoThis isn't new [0] even as shown in June 2021 last year where we have them already admitting they collect this data and shouldn't surprise anyone that after this [1] they are unsurprisingly screwing their users data in a worse way than Facebook was and now you have reports of China who have always been surveilling their user data (even for US users); Also expected and unsurprisingly. There is no defending this indefensible spyware which is beyond worse than Facebook and it is really the direct opposite of "The best thing to have happened to the Internet." [2] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28151067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28151067 [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135484
- wiz21c 4y agoIs there someone here that work at TikTok who could explain how collecting such that brings any value to TikTok. That's an honest question. I understand that we're being tracked with cookies, email address, FB/Google accounts. But the biometric stuff, what is it for ? It seems very disproportionate to me if it's just for advertising.
- SkyMarshal 4y agoIt’s all to feed the AI training database. The more data it has, the more insights the AI can provide.
- theplumber 4y agoI guess it could be used to create social graphs and perhaps also run machine learning (i.e people using a specific accent may like watching some specific content). More data is almost always better.
- mywittyname 4y agoThe most obvious (capitalist) application would be to use the data to build AI "creators". Some of these real people make good money as influencers. And if TikTok could use computers to generate influencers, they could seriously cash in. The military applications of this tech would be to stir up decent or manufacture outrage in a country for political gains. Or maybe both. Selling military tech to other countries is a good way to make money too.
- nothis 4y ago>The military applications of this tech would be to stir up decent or manufacture outrage in a country for political gains. I didn't need that thought in my life, thank you. Seriously, though, this genuinely makes it possible to gently tweak an algorithm (which is absolutely invisible to anyone outside the company or the Chinese government) to nudge public opinion. Like, you could probably nudge elections by a percentage point or two, manufacture specific outrage about policies unfriendly to China, generate a bit of chaos with conspiracy theories when convenient, etc, etc. Black Mirror stuff. I 'm telling myself it's unlikely to actually happen but when I ask myself why I can't come up with a reassuring answer. The technology is there. The control is there. The willingness is certainly there. I guess it would be a bigger endeavor and there might be leaks of it happening. But, ultimately, a few dozen people could do a lot of damage.
- jotm 4y agoI tried creating an account yesterday (with a throwaway email, because fuck every other way, not giving you my number, Google account, whatever else) because a relative started posting videos and told me to check them out. When I tried to enter the security code it said "Too many attempts", "Try later". Apparently this means my IP is banned. WTF. I've had this IP for years (static from ISP on a fiber connection, really nice, I even host shit on it including a website and a VPN because torrenting is legal lol). Either they banned my whole country, or they don't want people signing up anonymously, or (my tinfoil conspiracy) it interacts with Reddit, where this IP is permabanned. Anyway, thanks, good riddance. I don't want to get addicted to another site, and from what people say TikTok seems stupid but is the most addictive.
- whoisjuan 4y agoIt’s incredible that the US allowed TikTok (which is by all measures a chinese spy tool) to become such a dominant social network. India got it right from the beggining by banning TikTok. They saw the immense threat and didn’t hesitate. China, by principle, has always banned all foreign information technology companies. What seemed hostile for us, it’s a reasonable play if you understand the unmeasurable power of massive information products such as Google or Facebook. Meanwhile the US is just focused on attacking its own homegrown tech companies and diminishing their ability to compete in global contexts. We are on a declining trajectory and we willingly paved that road. It’s sad.
- BeFlatXIII 4y agoAs far as the populace is concerned, we'd rather be spied on by Chairman Xi than by our own government. Which one can more directly affect our lives? That said, it's surprising the governing class allowed TikTok in.
- frozencell 4y agoBy not banning it they can legitimate a war with CCP, a parallel to the US letting Russia threat and attack the west first.
- nemothekid 4y agoThe fact that India would consider TikTok a threat but not Meta leads me to believe that it wasn't done on a purely espionage basis. The threat of TikTok, today, it still theoretical, while Facebook has done measurable harm to India's neighbors.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- actuator 4y agoTiktok is a far worse threat to India than Meta though. Unlike China, US is not an adversary of India and US didn't kill Indian soldiers just two years back. So it makes sense they would go after Tiktok. The harm is just not espionage, it is also manipulation of sentiment by propoganda. Also, I am not really sure with all the equivalence to Meta in this thread. Sure, Meta has things to be criticized about but if one thinks West has threat from Meta on the same level as Tiktok, that seems delusional.
- theplumber 4y agoIt's also worth to remember: "Facebook Inc. has been paying hundreds of outside contractors to transcribe clips of audio from users of its services" "Social network says it paused human review of conversations" So again my question is wtf is so big fuss about tiktok. We already knew about PRISM and that all the data goes to the government. It also goes to 3rd party contractors, advertisers and who knows who else... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-13/facebook-paid-hundreds-of-contractors-to-transcribe-users-audio https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-13/facebook-...
- salt-thrower 4y agoI have the same take as you, and reading all these comments makes me feel like I’m on crazy pills. Google and Meta apparently get a pass because they’re “American companies.” Even though we know that they collect personal data and manipulate people en masse as part of their core product offerings. And of course, through PRISM and other programs, the US govt has access to much of it. I think people are just scared because now China is doing the same op, but more overtly.
- vorpalhex 4y agoIt might be that China is rounding up Muslims and oh, I don't know, putting them in camps against their will? Maybe just a skosh? Or that time China shot at several Indian soldiers and killed a few?
- theplumber 4y agoThe U.S would not put trade barriers to China for that incident in India (why India doesn't join U.S's sanctions on Russia now?) or for putting muslims in camps. Although not being the same thing I've seen children put in cages against their will on U.S soil so I'm pretty sure it could stomach some reeducation camps in China given the terrorism issues. U.S bombed Iraq unprovoked. Here we have the old money and power game. U.S finally realised that it fed a communist state that has imperialist ideas and may challenge its power in Asia. I would like this rivality to produce a more fair system for the world: secure devices, secure communication, open protocols with privacy built in etc instead of these appstores bans, obfuscation and demonization of the "enemy".
- throwaway_night 4y agoIndia is the only country banned tiktok. Huge respect for the country
- noisy_boy 4y agoAt least 20 Indian soldiers were killed in a clash with Chinese forces in Ladakh border area[0]. Banning Chinese apps isn't exactly a severe response. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476
- throwawayjun21 4y ago40 chinese were killed too according to Australian news
- est 4y agoNah, China was the first country to ban Tiktok.
- moomoo11 4y agoPeople who use TikTok don’t care so if they’re cool with it that’s on them right? Nobody is forcing them to use it.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> if they’re cool with it that’s on them right? If their nonchalance impacts my security, no, it’s on me as well.
- moomoo11 4y agoI don’t like TikTok so I don’t use it. How does it impact my security when nobody I know or associate with uses it? It’s like drugs. I’m pro drug legalization but I’m not interested in using them just because it’s legal.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoUntil you are injured by someone high off their ass? Or robbed by someone looking for their next fix? Or your kid becomes an addict? These aren't wild jumps.
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y agoThis will no doubt be used for NATO's propaganda purposes. https://www.mintpressnews.com/nato-tiktok-pipeline-why-tiktok-employing-national-security-agents/280336/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/nato-tiktok-pipeline-why-tikto...
- dpcan 4y agoLife without TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram is so much better. There’s just no way to tell those people what they’re missing.
- cybervaz 4y agoguys, don't mind the CCP bots commenting on here. Just ignore them
- FrostKiwi 4y agoI never seem to have a good sense for whether a post is motivated by an agenda or not, so it's though for me to understand what you are referencing and recommend I should ignore. Can you permalink those post you consider to be CCP bots?
- Xeoncross 4y agoI don't understand the argument that we shouldn't ban tikTok because Meta/Google/etc.. also collect data. I would rather ban all three, but tikTok is in a whole different league based on how that data is used. The difference is that the CCP is literally on the board of bytedance and uses this information to arrest, imprison, and harvest the organs of political, ideological, religious, and other dissidents. Yes, the US has done evil things in the past (and present) but our abuse of data is a far cry from what happens inside many tightly controlled communist countries on a daily basis.
- heretogetout 4y agoIf China really is as bad as all that (and I think it probably is) why are we wasting any time or energy on TikTok? It'd be a lot more effective to sanction China over those human rights abuses than to ban some toy app.
- Xeoncross 4y agoThat sounds good too. It does not need to be either/or. However, sanctioning them won't protect the millions (billions?) of international people who are being profiled though. It's a lot easier to identify, blackmail, impersonate, predict, locate, and anything else a government body might want to do to someone when you have all this information.
- heliophobicdude 4y agoI hope this can bring in some extra context. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-stoked-washingtons-fears-about-tiktok-11598223133 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-st... Paywall-less link: https://archive.ph/D7Dao https://archive.ph/D7Dao
- heretogetout 4y agoThat does make sense. Of course it's the result of lobbying and not some high-minded concern about privacy or espionage.
- hungvn94 4y ago
- hungvn94 4y ago
- cybervaz 4y agoI will repeat my comment: Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. - There will always be a ruler, and which ruler is killing, slaving, censoring and selling it's own people as meat tools for foreign companies? - China will kill, torture it's own people and their families if they think they are a thread (even if remote) to their government party (CCP). - China put on a HEAVY surveilance tool and actually forced people to behave like they want using social credit - China is actively removing ANY historical filosophies, tales, traditions, religions that could be a thread to the CCP's beliefs. - Have you ever seen a CCP convention? Their plan is to remove the worlds countries boundaries in order to rule over everything from culture to politics and economics. Australia is suffering a lot on their hands, they even sent spies to patronize elections.
- cwkoss 4y agoUS kills and tortures its own citizens if they are labeled 'criminals' or 'terrorists', or just lets cops murder activists without being charged. US has heavy surveillance infrastructure, and a kafkaesque 'private' credit system that I have no doubt the TLAs can manipulate with their banking partners. US politicians are currently working to ban the histories of racism and genocide from public schools when they make the country look bad. US media frequently participates in disinformation campaigns coordinated with state intelligence. US has done more successful election manipulation/coups than any other country on the planet. As a US citizen, I am vastly more afraid of of the US government than I am the CCP.
- moistly 4y agoOn a personal level, sure, you’re right. On the longer, broader timespan, you are wrong. Democracy, human rights, personal freedom: That’s what’s on the line, and it is foolish to be cavalier about the situation.
- cwkoss 4y agoI think you're overly discounting the chance of the US devolving into overt authoritarian fascism. We paint a thin veneer of democracy over political actions today, but our rights and protections in the US are disappearing rapidly already.
- calibas 4y agoHalf the comments here suffer from a bad case of whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- pessimizer 4y agoI though "whataboutism" was when the USSR points out that you're an apartheid state when you criticize them about their economic system, not when your own citizens wonder out loud why you're criticizing another country for doing something that you also do.
- bena 4y agoWhataboutism is when instead of engaging with the content of the claim, you instead try to deflect by bringing up something else. "TikTok is collecting data? What about Google?"
- randomperson_24 4y agoI am really suspecting a lot of these comments from throwaway and new accounts. Are they bots, paid chineese actors, or something else is to think about.
- walrus01 4y ago> faceprints and voiceprints > tiktok I am sure the Ministry of State Security (MSS) is very pleased.
- TMWNN 4y agoTrump proven right yet again. Another example: Trump and Stoltenberg argue on camera (<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwkdmwui3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwkdmwui3k>). Who turned out to be right about NATO and Russia? Who turned out to completely, totally, 100% wrong?
- crikeyjoe 4y agoNow why would they have to do that?
- nazgulnarsil 4y agoThere's no way this isn't kompromat harvesting scheme
- tqwhite 4y agoCome on people. This is ridiculous. If they had the perfect privacy policy, they could simply tell their clients to view a video that you have uploaded for them to see. Tik Tok is a dumpster fire but his is not interesting.
- smm11 4y agoI recall when wifi was first a thing, TV news people would drive around with "hackers" who would "war drive" and find networks, and egads! Connect! Nothing is safe online! Now this.
- sakutea 4y agohahaha
- ngcc_hk 4y agoIt can collect more or less. But everyone bit they collect is more than the bit you other guy not able to collect. An open society open arm to an external enemy. One day you will pay.
- throwawayjun21 4y ago
- ComradePhil 4y agoI love the panic of dipshits in this forum working for FAANG and worrying about data collection by other companies.