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I would expect cashiers suspecting fraud would have a high and probably discriminatory false positive rate. I wouldn't be surprised if it also sucked at detecti

I would expect cashiers suspecting fraud would have a high and probably discriminatory false positive rate. I wouldn't be surprised if it also sucked at detecting any actual fraud

bastawhiz 4y ago
I'd bet many cases were obvious. How many people told the employees they were paying IRS fees? Or that they had a long lost relative who contacted them? Many of these scams aren't sophisticated and the people falling for them are gullible. It's not hard to imagine that an employee with a bit more sense than the customer could have simply been told what's happening and realized it's probably illegitimate.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Walmart cashiers by and large are not sophisticated either. I mean that sounds harsh but these are not people walking in with a lot of financial savvy. Without training and reminders I would not think they would be any more likely to identify these scams than the victims are.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    Maybe they shouldn't be in that role then. Maybe Walmart should be expected to employ people in these roles who are paid and trained well enough to be able to pass a test like "can you spot the most obvious scam that has ever scammed, at least once in a while?"
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      Perhaps, as you suggest, Wal-Mart should hire high-paid, well-trained executives from PayPal, Zelle, CashApp, Venmo or other services. God knows there's never been fraudulent transactions or scams on those platforms. You obviously have a beef with Wal-Mart, writing essentially the same comment 4 times and seemingly ignoring the fact that virtually every supermarket and check-casher in the country has a similar employee running the Western Union desk.
      - whynotkeithberg 4y ago
        Well if those companies have fraud then WalMart just shouldn't even try. Your logic is impeccable.
        listenallyall 4y ago
        Impeccable? You've made up your mind based solely on the accusation (which 2 of the 5 Commissioners voted against). I prefer waiting until the defense gets its say.
      - FireBeyond 4y ago
        Yes, you're right. There's no middle ground between "3 hour morning training on using the Western Union console" and "fintech antifraud executive", none at all.
        listenallyall 4y ago
        The point is that both groups are unable to prevent fraud.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        you have presented no evidence to support this claim. There coupd be 100x more fraud with wallmart payments. just because zero fraud cant be achieved dows not mean we should have no anti fraud measures
      - kadoban 4y ago
        > ignoring the fact that virtually every supermarket and check-casher in the country has a similar employee running the Western Union desk. My stance applies to them as well, if they have similarly weak policies on fraud.
- hattmall 4y ago
  Western Union had a check list of questions to ask if certain amounts / destinations were met. Did you win a lottery? Are you claiming an inheritance? Is this to help someone you know, but haven't spoken to? Is this to pay a fine, tax or other government fee? Seems pretty simple to rule out a lot of them.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said, no, he knew it was real because they gave him the phone number for a bank and he called and the man on the other end confirmed it was real. I implored him not to send any more money, but he continued to take out a postal money order for a few hundred dollars. I told the cashier that he was being scammed after he left and they just said "ya, but what can you do?" You can refuse to process the payment!
    - liaukovv 4y ago
      Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?
      - trhway 4y ago
        Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when i think in many cases it should be a surgeon knife.
        4y ago
- imgabe 4y ago
  > making it easy for scammers to retrieve fraud proceeds at a Walmart location. The cashiers are giving the money to the scammer, not getting the money from the person being scammed. The scammers, if they're any good, are probably not making chit-chat or doing anything to draw suspicion to themselves.
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    It's both. Walmart is on both sides of many of the transactions, and they have allegedly been negligent on both.
chemmail 4y ago
I am a minority, but every time a minority comes in, i tell them take their business elsewhere. After 30 years, you just know by how they walk. If some woke person analyzed this, they will definitely be correct.

I would expect cashiers suspecting fraud would have a high and probably discriminatory false positive rate. I wouldn't be surprised if it also sucked at detecting any actual fraud

bastawhiz 4y ago

I'd bet many cases were obvious. How many people told the employees they were paying IRS fees? Or that they had a long lost relative who contacted them? Many of these scams aren't sophisticated and the people falling for them are gullible. It's not hard to imagine that an employee with a bit more sense than the customer could have simply been told what's happening and realized it's probably illegitimate.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Walmart cashiers by and large are not sophisticated either. I mean that sounds harsh but these are not people walking in with a lot of financial savvy. Without training and reminders I would not think they would be any more likely to identify these scams than the victims are.
- kadoban 4y ago
  Maybe they shouldn't be in that role then. Maybe Walmart should be expected to employ people in these roles who are paid and trained well enough to be able to pass a test like "can you spot the most obvious scam that has ever scammed, at least once in a while?"
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    Perhaps, as you suggest, Wal-Mart should hire high-paid, well-trained executives from PayPal, Zelle, CashApp, Venmo or other services. God knows there's never been fraudulent transactions or scams on those platforms. You obviously have a beef with Wal-Mart, writing essentially the same comment 4 times and seemingly ignoring the fact that virtually every supermarket and check-casher in the country has a similar employee running the Western Union desk.
    - whynotkeithberg 4y ago
      Well if those companies have fraud then WalMart just shouldn't even try. Your logic is impeccable.
      - listenallyall 4y ago
        Impeccable? You've made up your mind based solely on the accusation (which 2 of the 5 Commissioners voted against). I prefer waiting until the defense gets its say.
    - FireBeyond 4y ago
      Yes, you're right. There's no middle ground between "3 hour morning training on using the Western Union console" and "fintech antifraud executive", none at all.
      - listenallyall 4y ago
        The point is that both groups are unable to prevent fraud.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        you have presented no evidence to support this claim. There coupd be 100x more fraud with wallmart payments. just because zero fraud cant be achieved dows not mean we should have no anti fraud measures
    - kadoban 4y ago
      > ignoring the fact that virtually every supermarket and check-casher in the country has a similar employee running the Western Union desk. My stance applies to them as well, if they have similarly weak policies on fraud.
hattmall 4y ago
Western Union had a check list of questions to ask if certain amounts / destinations were met. Did you win a lottery? Are you claiming an inheritance? Is this to help someone you know, but haven't spoken to? Is this to pay a fine, tax or other government fee? Seems pretty simple to rule out a lot of them.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said, no, he knew it was real because they gave him the phone number for a bank and he called and the man on the other end confirmed it was real. I implored him not to send any more money, but he continued to take out a postal money order for a few hundred dollars. I told the cashier that he was being scammed after he left and they just said "ya, but what can you do?" You can refuse to process the payment!
  - liaukovv 4y ago
    Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?
    - trhway 4y ago
      Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when i think in many cases it should be a surgeon knife.
      - 4y ago
imgabe 4y ago
> making it easy for scammers to retrieve fraud proceeds at a Walmart location. The cashiers are giving the money to the scammer, not getting the money from the person being scammed. The scammers, if they're any good, are probably not making chit-chat or doing anything to draw suspicion to themselves.
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  It's both. Walmart is on both sides of many of the transactions, and they have allegedly been negligent on both.

chemmail 4y ago

I am a minority, but every time a minority comes in, i tell them take their business elsewhere. After 30 years, you just know by how they walk. If some woke person analyzed this, they will definitely be correct.