4 ms·

And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. Seems like your angling for Exchange and Slack support. Yea

by pkulak 4y ago

And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. Seems like your angling for Exchange and Slack support. Yeah, no thanks.

Zash 4y ago
> Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol [citation needed]
- ajdude 4y ago
  Maybe I’m in living in the past but I would’ve thought it was IRC
- pkulak 4y ago
  I just looked up Matrix and IRC in Wikipedia. One was 28 million (and those are only the servers that opt in to reporting), and one was 371,000. Maybe Jabber has more? But I doubt it.
  - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
    IRC was 28 million, I take it?
    - feanaro 4y ago
      Nope, it's Matrix. IRC is dying.
  - solar-ice 4y ago
    Matrix doesn’t report daily active users. IRC only reports people who are connected right this moment. Those are two entirely different numbers.
    - feanaro 4y ago
      > Matrix doesn’t report daily active users It does, if you opt in.
      - solar-ice 4y ago
        Can you show me where to opt in, and where this is documented? The only stats I can find that are close to the number provided are for total registered users.
  - rrix2 4y ago
    I'd guess that many of those irc users connect through a matrix service these days
    - zaik 4y ago
      I wouldn't be so sure. If you create a Matrix account and join an IRC channel, your username[m] will never leave the channel, even if you never use Matrix again. I made a few test accounts and it was rather difficult to figure out how leave IRC channels properly if you decide not to use Matrix anymore.
      - Arathorn 4y ago
        If you part the matrix room, you’ll part the IRC channel. You can also disconnect from IRC entirely from the bridge admin room. Finally, if someone joins a channel via Matrix and then disappears without parting or disconnecting, then after 30d we’ll boot them off IRC anyway.
Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
>And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Thunderbird users? I'd say ~100% of them use imap, probably ~75% of them use calendaring. I don't know whether Thunderbird uses ical or imap-type calendars behind the scenes but it works with gmail, zimbra and apple type shared/hosted calendars which account for basically ~100% of the non-exchange type calendars in common use. It probably supports exchange-type calendars too though I've never tried that. I'd wager less than ~2% of TB users use a non-slack non-discord non-irc chat.
- pmontra 4y ago
  I use only SMTP and POP3, no calendar. Chat: Slack (work) and WhatsApp plus Telegram. I think that TLS is the only new protocol level feature I'm using compared to 30 years ago. Anything else is in the UI and keeping the software compatible with new versions of the OS. What was I using back then? Some emacs mail client with filters I wrote in elisp. I got my current folder structure started in emacs (roughly one folder per person and customer) and kept it through all the moves to Eudora, Netscape's mail client and Exchange Express until I landed to Thunderbird (desktop) and K9 (phone, much later on.) Work email was on Exchange when I was an employee, always separated from personal email.
  - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
    >POP3 Which works so well across multiple devices, which is a very very common use-case for email. Either you have some homebrew sync going on or you have a very simple email use-case.
    - pmontra 4y ago
      I check mail on my phone with K9 (configured to leave messages on server,) possibly answer BCCing myself and eventually download mail forever on my laptop and remove from server. My 35 years experience with email: I don't need to read old messages when I'm not at my computer. I never did before 2011 (first Android phone) and nothing changed after then. I can easily figure jobs that need constant access to the complete email archive. Not my one. And I don't need mail on tablets and my old phone. I've got my main phone always with me, but the setup would be the same. One reason it works for me could be that communication moved increasingly from email to messaging platforms and those are on my phone, except Slack which is confined to work boundaries. However I feel like I can lose all of WhatsApp and Telegram messages with no harm. I already lost a few years of WhatsApp and nothing happened. Who cares about conversations of 3 years or 3 days ago. It's mostly nearly unsearchable trash. And everybody else and I never had a verbatim trace of any IRL conversations for million of years, so they could be nice to have feature but not an important one. But I'm doing my best not to lose mail. The long term important messages are in there.
ungamedplayer 4y ago
I dont want my mail client eating 4GB of ram just to get chat notifications.. Thank you thunderbird!
lproven 4y ago
> Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. [[Citation needed]]
saberience 4y ago
Why do we even need chat in an email app? It just adds bloat and slowness for not discernible reason. This is why I WONT be using apps like Thunderbird any time soon.

by pkulak 4y ago

And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. Seems like your angling for Exchange and Slack support. Yeah, no thanks.

Zash 4y ago

> Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol [citation needed]

ajdude 4y ago
Maybe I’m in living in the past but I would’ve thought it was IRC
pkulak 4y ago
I just looked up Matrix and IRC in Wikipedia. One was 28 million (and those are only the servers that opt in to reporting), and one was 371,000. Maybe Jabber has more? But I doubt it.
- Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
  IRC was 28 million, I take it?
  - feanaro 4y ago
    Nope, it's Matrix. IRC is dying.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  Matrix doesn’t report daily active users. IRC only reports people who are connected right this moment. Those are two entirely different numbers.
  - feanaro 4y ago
    > Matrix doesn’t report daily active users It does, if you opt in.
    - solar-ice 4y ago
      Can you show me where to opt in, and where this is documented? The only stats I can find that are close to the number provided are for total registered users.
- rrix2 4y ago
  I'd guess that many of those irc users connect through a matrix service these days
  - zaik 4y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure. If you create a Matrix account and join an IRC channel, your username[m] will never leave the channel, even if you never use Matrix again. I made a few test accounts and it was rather difficult to figure out how leave IRC channels properly if you decide not to use Matrix anymore.
    - Arathorn 4y ago
      If you part the matrix room, you’ll part the IRC channel. You can also disconnect from IRC entirely from the bridge admin room. Finally, if someone joins a channel via Matrix and then disappears without parting or disconnecting, then after 30d we’ll boot them off IRC anyway.

Dan_Sylveste 4y ago

>And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Thunderbird users? I'd say ~100% of them use imap, probably ~75% of them use calendaring. I don't know whether Thunderbird uses ical or imap-type calendars behind the scenes but it works with gmail, zimbra and apple type shared/hosted calendars which account for basically ~100% of the non-exchange type calendars in common use. It probably supports exchange-type calendars too though I've never tried that. I'd wager less than ~2% of TB users use a non-slack non-discord non-irc chat.

pmontra 4y ago
I use only SMTP and POP3, no calendar. Chat: Slack (work) and WhatsApp plus Telegram. I think that TLS is the only new protocol level feature I'm using compared to 30 years ago. Anything else is in the UI and keeping the software compatible with new versions of the OS. What was I using back then? Some emacs mail client with filters I wrote in elisp. I got my current folder structure started in emacs (roughly one folder per person and customer) and kept it through all the moves to Eudora, Netscape's mail client and Exchange Express until I landed to Thunderbird (desktop) and K9 (phone, much later on.) Work email was on Exchange when I was an employee, always separated from personal email.
- Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
  >POP3 Which works so well across multiple devices, which is a very very common use-case for email. Either you have some homebrew sync going on or you have a very simple email use-case.
  - pmontra 4y ago
    I check mail on my phone with K9 (configured to leave messages on server,) possibly answer BCCing myself and eventually download mail forever on my laptop and remove from server. My 35 years experience with email: I don't need to read old messages when I'm not at my computer. I never did before 2011 (first Android phone) and nothing changed after then. I can easily figure jobs that need constant access to the complete email archive. Not my one. And I don't need mail on tablets and my old phone. I've got my main phone always with me, but the setup would be the same. One reason it works for me could be that communication moved increasingly from email to messaging platforms and those are on my phone, except Slack which is confined to work boundaries. However I feel like I can lose all of WhatsApp and Telegram messages with no harm. I already lost a few years of WhatsApp and nothing happened. Who cares about conversations of 3 years or 3 days ago. It's mostly nearly unsearchable trash. And everybody else and I never had a verbatim trace of any IRL conversations for million of years, so they could be nice to have feature but not an important one. But I'm doing my best not to lose mail. The long term important messages are in there.

ungamedplayer 4y ago

I dont want my mail client eating 4GB of ram just to get chat notifications.. Thank you thunderbird!

lproven 4y ago

> Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. [[Citation needed]]

saberience 4y ago

Why do we even need chat in an email app? It just adds bloat and slowness for not discernible reason. This is why I WONT be using apps like Thunderbird any time soon.