10 ms·

Yer darn tootin'! That's why we don't want it broken.

Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
Yes, precisely. I rely on Thunderbird every single day, which is why I froze it at version 60-something (rolling back about four years) after the upgrades kept breaking it and mangling the appearance for me and the other people in my company. It was a lovely mail client. It seems they're repeating all the mistakes that firefox made. Firefox added pocket, everyone disabled it and eventually the feature was removed. Firefox added chat, everybody disabled it and eventually the feature was removed. Now Thunderbird has added chat, that's great. What does it support, Slack? no. Discord? no. Oh. That's not great, then, that's useless. They're intending to jumpstart a chat protocol with a client that's used by like 0.8% of users? Sure. The last update made the context-menus and dropdown-menus white backgrounded menus with literally no border, so you had no way to determine where the menu background ended and the email background started. That was the update that pushed me over the edge and prompted the rollback and push of whatever 60-ish version I chose. My staff need imap and calendaring and consistency. That version delivers. I have absolutely zero interest in playing the 'what spurious UI change will throw my staff into confusion today' game with a basic productivity tool.
- stryan 4y ago
  >Now Thunderbird has added chat, that's great. What does it support, Slack? no. Discord? no. Oh. That's not great, then, that's useless. They're intending to jumpstart a chat protocol with a client that's used by like 0.8% of users? Sure. Thunderbird has had XMPP and other chat for many, many years now.
  - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
    Like I said, 0.8% of users. Slack and discord and maybe the MS product are what matter in the chat space. If you're not offering that then the dev resources would probably be better funnelled into bug chasing and UI consistency. 'It supports XMPP' that's great. ICQ support would arguably be more useful.
    - hprotagonist 4y ago
      you realize discord bans people who use third party clients, right?
      - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
        Headless chrome isn't a third party client.
        Shared404 4y ago
        That's the last thing I want in my Mozilla made email client. I'm pretty happy with added Matrix support though, may make me take a look at Thunderbird again in addition to aerc.
        NoraCodes 4y ago
        Yes. It is. It's been confirmed multiple times that even using browser plugins that interact with the Discord client code in any way counts, in their opinion, as a "third party client".
      - abnercoimbre 4y ago
        One should note that doesn't really happen with Ripcord [0] though. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
        mid-kid 4y ago
        I've seen multiple people be banned from using this client. It does everything in its power to remain unnoticed but you only need to come across the wrong server-side detection update once to get the hammer.
        glenstein 4y ago
        Good to know and unfortunate although not terribly surprising. I guess this is the recommended user experience that the commenter up the thread is suggesting be integrated into thunderbird?
- pkulak 4y ago
  And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. Seems like your angling for Exchange and Slack support. Yeah, no thanks.
  - Zash 4y ago
    > Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol [citation needed]
    - ajdude 4y ago
      Maybe I’m in living in the past but I would’ve thought it was IRC
    - pkulak 4y ago
      I just looked up Matrix and IRC in Wikipedia. One was 28 million (and those are only the servers that opt in to reporting), and one was 371,000. Maybe Jabber has more? But I doubt it.
      - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
        IRC was 28 million, I take it?
        feanaro 4y ago
        Nope, it's Matrix. IRC is dying.
      - solar-ice 4y ago
        Matrix doesn’t report daily active users. IRC only reports people who are connected right this moment. Those are two entirely different numbers.
        feanaro 4y ago
        > Matrix doesn’t report daily active users It does, if you opt in.

Yes, precisely. I rely on Thunderbird every single day, which is why I froze it at version 60-something (rolling back about four years) after the upgrades kept breaking it and mangling the appearance for me and the other people in my company. It was a lovely mail client. It seems they're repeating all the mistakes that firefox made. Firefox added pocket, everyone disabled it and eventually the feature was removed. Firefox added chat, everybody disabled it and eventually the feature was removed. Now Thunderbird has added chat, that's great. What does it support, Slack? no. Discord? no. Oh. That's not great, then, that's useless. They're intending to jumpstart a chat protocol with a client that's used by like 0.8% of users? Sure. The last update made the context-menus and dropdown-menus white backgrounded menus with literally no border, so you had no way to determine where the menu background ended and the email background started. That was the update that pushed me over the edge and prompted the rollback and push of whatever 60-ish version I chose. My staff need imap and calendaring and consistency. That version delivers. I have absolutely zero interest in playing the 'what spurious UI change will throw my staff into confusion today' game with a basic productivity tool.

stryan 4y ago
>Now Thunderbird has added chat, that's great. What does it support, Slack? no. Discord? no. Oh. That's not great, then, that's useless. They're intending to jumpstart a chat protocol with a client that's used by like 0.8% of users? Sure. Thunderbird has had XMPP and other chat for many, many years now.
- Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
  Like I said, 0.8% of users. Slack and discord and maybe the MS product are what matter in the chat space. If you're not offering that then the dev resources would probably be better funnelled into bug chasing and UI consistency. 'It supports XMPP' that's great. ICQ support would arguably be more useful.
  - hprotagonist 4y ago
    you realize discord bans people who use third party clients, right?
    - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
      Headless chrome isn't a third party client.
      - Shared404 4y ago
        That's the last thing I want in my Mozilla made email client. I'm pretty happy with added Matrix support though, may make me take a look at Thunderbird again in addition to aerc.
      - NoraCodes 4y ago
        Yes. It is. It's been confirmed multiple times that even using browser plugins that interact with the Discord client code in any way counts, in their opinion, as a "third party client".
    - abnercoimbre 4y ago
      One should note that doesn't really happen with Ripcord [0] though. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
      - mid-kid 4y ago
        I've seen multiple people be banned from using this client. It does everything in its power to remain unnoticed but you only need to come across the wrong server-side detection update once to get the hammer.
        glenstein 4y ago
        Good to know and unfortunate although not terribly surprising. I guess this is the recommended user experience that the commenter up the thread is suggesting be integrated into thunderbird?
pkulak 4y ago
And what percent of users use iCal, carddav and imap? Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol. Seems like your angling for Exchange and Slack support. Yeah, no thanks.
- Zash 4y ago
  > Matrix is the most popular open chat protocol [citation needed]
  - ajdude 4y ago
    Maybe I’m in living in the past but I would’ve thought it was IRC
  - pkulak 4y ago
    I just looked up Matrix and IRC in Wikipedia. One was 28 million (and those are only the servers that opt in to reporting), and one was 371,000. Maybe Jabber has more? But I doubt it.
    - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
      IRC was 28 million, I take it?
      - feanaro 4y ago
        Nope, it's Matrix. IRC is dying.
    - solar-ice 4y ago
      Matrix doesn’t report daily active users. IRC only reports people who are connected right this moment. Those are two entirely different numbers.
      - feanaro 4y ago
        > Matrix doesn’t report daily active users It does, if you opt in.