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At some point when 50% of the world uses your service the rules must change. Facebook and Twitter can sway elections with a press of a button. Once your compa

At some point when 50% of the world uses your service the rules must change. Facebook and Twitter can sway elections with a press of a button. Once your company can directly affects direct democray and lives of billions these kind of statements make no sense anymore. Unless you like to be ruled by corporations.

jcadam 4y ago
Yes, anti-trust laws came about for a reason.
- jayparth 4y ago
  Yes, and we don't apply them to some companies for a reason. We call these businesses natural monopolies and regulate them. Like forcing them to serve everyone or cap their profits.
themitigating 4y ago
Facebook and Twitter users sway elections. Every company can affect democracy in some way. Foxnews had a massive effect on elections, Gas prices being high affects elections. Should these be regulated?
- benatkin 4y ago
  > Facebook and Twitter users sway elections. That's not what gp is saying. Facebook and Twitter control what users, in bulk, say in a way that can sway elections. Facebook and Twitter moderate and suspend and users adjust what they say in order to not get suspended again, if they care to not get banned. (Those who don't care if they get banned are a red herring.) There is also the algorithmic feed which gives a lot of control over what users say to other users.
  - evandale 4y ago
    I just quit Reddit and deleted all my accounts despite gilding > 10 comments over the past year because I got blacklisted from every community subreddit I wanted to participate in. I brought up the bias to the admins and was told mods can run their subreddit however they want despite Rule 1 of the mod guidelines saying to assume people are arguing in good faith. I got banned because I say controversial things like Black people are not disproportionately targeted by police due to their race, but rather due to them disproportionately having guns and knives when the police show up. The general public have a serious problem understanding nuance and statistics and I think it's disgusting that the media cry racism at every corner because it enrages people and gets clicks. It's even more disgusting that people fall for it without realizing what the media is doing to them because they can't read past headlines. I'll link to the actual TPS report that shows this but I'm on a slow connection right now and can't do it. edit: nvm I'm dumb; it's not that but the report is named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf if you can find it on its own. You can google "tps force report 2018 -2020 pdf". I'd find it myself but I'm downloading a 12mb pdf that's taking forever and I'm pretty sure this is the one.
    - lovich 4y ago
      - evandale 4y ago
        I believe this is the report and if remember right it's on page 52 or maybe 54. Decide for yourself. https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-interim-report-toronto-police-service-inquiry-shows-disturbing-results https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-interim-report-to... edit: nvm I'm dumb; it's not that but the report is named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf if you can find it on its own. You can google "tps force report 2018 -2020 pdf". I'd find it myself but I'm downloading a 12mb pdf that's taking forever and I'm pretty sure this is the one.
        themitigating 4y ago
        This isn't what this Hackernews post is about. You complained about people not understanding nuance but you want to dive right into argument about the police and minorities?
  - themitigating 4y ago
    In what way is facebooks moderation on or algorithm related to specifically to elections
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - yonaguska 4y ago
      You are either incredibly naive, or you are being intentionally obtuse. When you can pick and choose what ideas or people are acceptable to even discuss, you are controlling the extent to which people can explore ideas on your platform, and subsequently, how they might vote. The innate human needs to belong to a community are easily exploited by a social network that is not necessarily organic. Same way religious institutions can sway elections, or any institution that dictates culture. Tech just enables that process to scale.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    The issue is that they sway elections. Why is it more important how they sway elections versus the amount of influence? It seems the latter would have a greater effect.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
li2uR3ce 4y ago
> At some point when 50% of the world uses your service the rules must change. It's worse than that. They've effectively levied a tax on everything (without representation). Even if you pay cash, you pay (e.g.) Visa if the vendor accepts Visa. Businesses are contractually obligated hide the transaction cost from the consumer. This means all products and services have their prices jacked up to cover the cost of accepting Visa, MasterCard, etc. Even if you're paying cash, you're paying into it. "Cash back rewards" are essentially a discount on the tax they've imposed. So they tax you, they decide what you can buy, and you don't get a say. Kinda fucked up.
MrFantastic 4y ago
We don't have a direct democracy nor should we want one. The stock market is a type of direct democracy and look how unstable it can be.
- metadat 4y ago
  Hardly democratic when it's controlled like a puppet by wall street super funds and the fed.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  I wouldn't call the stock market a direct democracy. In a direct democracy, every citizen/participant has the same vote as another and all it takes is simple majority can invalidate the rights of every individual. Obviously that's not the case in the US, and for the better.
- imtringued 4y ago
  Switzerland has direct democracy as an escape hatch.

jcadam 4y ago

Yes, anti-trust laws came about for a reason.

jayparth 4y ago
Yes, and we don't apply them to some companies for a reason. We call these businesses natural monopolies and regulate them. Like forcing them to serve everyone or cap their profits.

themitigating 4y ago

Facebook and Twitter users sway elections. Every company can affect democracy in some way. Foxnews had a massive effect on elections, Gas prices being high affects elections. Should these be regulated?

benatkin 4y ago
> Facebook and Twitter users sway elections. That's not what gp is saying. Facebook and Twitter control what users, in bulk, say in a way that can sway elections. Facebook and Twitter moderate and suspend and users adjust what they say in order to not get suspended again, if they care to not get banned. (Those who don't care if they get banned are a red herring.) There is also the algorithmic feed which gives a lot of control over what users say to other users.
- evandale 4y ago
  I just quit Reddit and deleted all my accounts despite gilding > 10 comments over the past year because I got blacklisted from every community subreddit I wanted to participate in. I brought up the bias to the admins and was told mods can run their subreddit however they want despite Rule 1 of the mod guidelines saying to assume people are arguing in good faith. I got banned because I say controversial things like Black people are not disproportionately targeted by police due to their race, but rather due to them disproportionately having guns and knives when the police show up. The general public have a serious problem understanding nuance and statistics and I think it's disgusting that the media cry racism at every corner because it enrages people and gets clicks. It's even more disgusting that people fall for it without realizing what the media is doing to them because they can't read past headlines. I'll link to the actual TPS report that shows this but I'm on a slow connection right now and can't do it. edit: nvm I'm dumb; it's not that but the report is named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf if you can find it on its own. You can google "tps force report 2018 -2020 pdf". I'd find it myself but I'm downloading a 12mb pdf that's taking forever and I'm pretty sure this is the one.
  - lovich 4y ago
    - evandale 4y ago
      I believe this is the report and if remember right it's on page 52 or maybe 54. Decide for yourself. https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-interim-report-toronto-police-service-inquiry-shows-disturbing-results https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-interim-report-to... edit: nvm I'm dumb; it's not that but the report is named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf if you can find it on its own. You can google "tps force report 2018 -2020 pdf". I'd find it myself but I'm downloading a 12mb pdf that's taking forever and I'm pretty sure this is the one.
      - themitigating 4y ago
        This isn't what this Hackernews post is about. You complained about people not understanding nuance but you want to dive right into argument about the police and minorities?
- themitigating 4y ago
  In what way is facebooks moderation on or algorithm related to specifically to elections
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    You are either incredibly naive, or you are being intentionally obtuse. When you can pick and choose what ideas or people are acceptable to even discuss, you are controlling the extent to which people can explore ideas on your platform, and subsequently, how they might vote. The innate human needs to belong to a community are easily exploited by a social network that is not necessarily organic. Same way religious institutions can sway elections, or any institution that dictates culture. Tech just enables that process to scale.
- themitigating 4y ago
  The issue is that they sway elections. Why is it more important how they sway elections versus the amount of influence? It seems the latter would have a greater effect.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

li2uR3ce 4y ago

> At some point when 50% of the world uses your service the rules must change. It's worse than that. They've effectively levied a tax on everything (without representation). Even if you pay cash, you pay (e.g.) Visa if the vendor accepts Visa. Businesses are contractually obligated hide the transaction cost from the consumer. This means all products and services have their prices jacked up to cover the cost of accepting Visa, MasterCard, etc. Even if you're paying cash, you're paying into it. "Cash back rewards" are essentially a discount on the tax they've imposed. So they tax you, they decide what you can buy, and you don't get a say. Kinda fucked up.

MrFantastic 4y ago

We don't have a direct democracy nor should we want one. The stock market is a type of direct democracy and look how unstable it can be.

metadat 4y ago
Hardly democratic when it's controlled like a puppet by wall street super funds and the fed.
Dracophoenix 4y ago
I wouldn't call the stock market a direct democracy. In a direct democracy, every citizen/participant has the same vote as another and all it takes is simple majority can invalidate the rights of every individual. Obviously that's not the case in the US, and for the better.
imtringued 4y ago
Switzerland has direct democracy as an escape hatch.