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> This is a hot take. I'm assuming you mean your comment, not the post itself. > The reason that you need to do things the ops way is because ops knows how to
by dhzhzjsbevs 4y ago
> This is a hot take.
I'm assuming you mean your comment, not the post itself.
> The reason that you need to do things the ops way is because ops knows how to run applications in production
Stability in production is one metric. Ops overindexing on this metric is exactly what causes the friction with developers.
Developers are trying to ship value to customers.
Uptime is only one part of that equation and for most businesses, it's not even a very important one.
The author points this out near the end. DevOps can't convince devs to use ops techniques if all the reasons for using those techniques are based on the flawed assumption that development velocity isn't important.
- gonehome 4y ago> “Developers are trying to ship value to customers.” I’ve also seen this be fairly rare. Devs shipping nothing - not even aware if what they're merging will turn on. They write something they haven’t really tested, merge it, and call it done - a user may never see it and they don’t have any knowledge about how the thing actually gets built and shipped. Obviously this is worst-case, but in my experience this is a common default. The complaints about friction are because they’re actually forced to reason about how the machine works in order to ship something beyond merge.
- Aeolun 4y ago> They write something they haven’t really tested, merge it, and call it done This is a problem of incentives. For all intents and purposes, the dev organization ceases to care the moment something is merged. Nobody is rewarded for making sure everything is fine all the way to production. Now if you ship two extra Jira tickets this sprint however...
- dhzhzjsbevs 4y agoI don't generally make a habit of basing my software development lifecycle methodologies on the lowest common denominator engineering org. Some shops ship value to customers with tests and metrics every day.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> DevOps can’t convince devs to use ops techniques If “DevOps” is the name of a role, and part of the funtion of that role is “convince devs to use ops techniques”, then I feel like the concept of DevOps is lost. Devs need to own ops, including its costs, which is what convinces them to use ops-appropriate techniques, not some outsider jawing at them.
- dhzhzjsbevs 4y ago> ops-appropriate techniques The true DevOps.