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This is spot on from my own experiences. I'm currently in that sort of a position where I'm aware my energy (which I've started to refer to as currency with my

This is spot on from my own experiences. I'm currently in that sort of a position where I'm aware my energy (which I've started to refer to as currency with my therapist) is low. It refreshes every day (the amount depending on sleep quality) and even at the best of days it's not enough to do an iota of what I was previously capable of doing. Personally, in my situation I believe the answer to be antidepressants and will likely be going on them soon. Once this "situation" becomes lived in, it becomes harder to escape from... especially whilst self-isolating. Antidepressants increase neurotransmitters (which ones depends on the class of drug) and aid in this positive-thinking and habit-formation. Psilocybin works acutely through this mechanism as well (increased serotonin -> neurogenesis -> escaping mental ruts + more easily forming habits). (note: when people 'cure' depression through psilocybin it's typically by being exposed to an extremely different perspective of the world. For example, "I forgot how beautiful nature is" or "every stranger has an amazing story" or "the world is so big and so much to explore". Taking those learnings back with yourself is one way to help depression, but in that class the depression is usually sub-clinical.) People who start Prozac, for example, and get positive results tend to report a much better ability to learn and to maintain hopefulness. This situation is not always due a chemical root cause (i.e. passing of a loved one) but staying in that state for much too long will cause a learned depression that we will accept as our truth of the world. At that point, SSRIs and other medicines have a role.

danenania 4y ago
You know what’s best for you. I’m wondering though if you’ve tried the non-pharmaceutical options already? Daily exercise, time outside, eating healthy, limiting screen time, sleeping well, and all that. A lot of studies have found doing these things to be at least as effective as SSRIs. They can create hormonal and neurochemical changes that are just as strong. Check out some of Andrew Huberman’s podcasts for more on this. I wish you the best in any case with whatever route you take!
- guerrilla 4y ago
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    > The point is that a depressed person can't do those things. You seem to have missed that. A depressed person can. The hardest thing for a depressed person is starting. But often when they can start they feel rewarded. But starting is the hardest thing in the world. Then there’s the problem of biological and neurological depression. Medicine doesn’t help with biological depression much if at all.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        > Please don't spread misinformation. You hurt people when you do this. Do you know what pre natal depression is? Anti depressants do not always work. Because it’s not a serotonin issue. Don’t tell me I’m spreading misinformation when I’m literally going through this right now with my wife.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        philliphaydon 4y ago
        > and some respond to treatment > much if at all Same same. I’ve spoken to more doctors in the past 5 months than I can count on my hands. The conclusion from all of them is that this is biological depression caused by the pregnancy which medicine most likely won’t help, which is also hindered by the fact she’s pregnant and that limits the available treatment. And this is different to, and quote “neurological” depression happening in the brain which would need constant treatment, so we can only manage the anxiety and bide our time till delivery day. What you’re saying is that the doctors and the stuff I’ve read is wrong and medical science doesn’t know what they are taking about.
- atlas_hugged 4y ago
  I’m so tired of hearing people say this as if we haven’t already googled every non-medical intervention imaginable before resorting to meds. Nobody wants to be on meds their whole life. Nobody. Why do people always assume I and others like me “took the easy way out” and always say “well did you just try exercise/sunlight/chakra/insertdietyhere??” Before I finally got a doctor that could help I was tormented by people like you because I thought I wasn’t good enough. Everyone else does these things and they’re “cured.” Why can’t I do it? Their response every single time was disbelief. “You’re just not trying hard enough.” Just. Just. Just. Just. I’ve grown to hate that word. People that say it tend to enjoy being dismissive of real problems. I honestly don’t care to look thru your comment history, but I know the odds are pretty high I’ll see that language over and over… The thing is, my experience isn’t even unique. It’s super common. Yet there’s always people like you that try their best to make us feel like we aren’t doing enough and it’s our own fault. The odds are the person you’re talking to is not a complete and total idiot and they already tried everything up to and sometimes including shoving Gwyneth Paltrow “healing crystals” up their vagina before trying meds. I’m incredibly fortunate medication was able to sort of help. I can at least tolerate life and be somewhat hopeful for my future. Not everyone is so lucky. My brother, for instance, is suffering from treatment resistant depression. My family are all trying to figure out how to help him before it’s too late. If I heard you or anyone say “did you just try exercising” to him in my presence, I’d find it exceedingly difficult to not break your nose, because I know how much that kind of talk will make him bed-ridden and suicidal.
  - danenania 4y ago
    Honestly, I’m just sharing this stuff because I deal with depression too and it has helped me more than anything else, including SSRIs—I tried one years ago and found it to be worse than the depression. For me learning about the biochemistry involved really helped it click to the point that I was able to change some negative habits. I realize that what works for me won’t work for everyone, but it might for some. I’m by no means trying to imply anything negative about anyone who concludes that pharmaceuticals are the best (or only) option for them. I sincerely wish both you and your brother the best.
    - 4y ago
- headsoup 4y ago
  The fact anti-depressants have such serious potential side-effects should mean anyone considering them is at least hopefully fully informed and has exhausted other options. I'm sure many people find it insulting to have such 'obvious' solutions proposed, but you don't know who it might be helpful for.
  - danenania 4y ago
    I think a lot of people know these things can help, but brush them off as serious options. Like they see them as homeopathic cures or folk wisdom vs. antidepressants being the real deal medical option. Add that changing habits is difficult, and people tend to dismiss the non-pharmaceutical options before giving them an honest try. It's hard to put the effort in if you're skeptical it's even going to help at all. Learning about the science behind it might change this perspective. For example, staying up until 3am looking at your phone or computer screen will mess with your hormone levels as much as if you took steroids. If you're doing this regularly and suffering from depression, there's a much simpler and more scientifically proven treatment available to you than an SSRI. While it does require more effort to change habits than taking a pill does, it's also more likely to make you feel better.
- new_newbie 4y ago
  There's a point where you're so broken that it's really not reasonable to build those again. For reference, I got into this position by doing a 30 week natural bodybuilding prep. I've done a variety of extreme physical feats including watercutting 16lbs over a day and all the others that come with wrestling too. All of these demand extreme willpower and discipline to the point of being considered indoctrination. If I detailed these things or shared pictures, no one would doubt I'm capable of building habits or routines normally. Right now I struggle to get myself to cook breakfast. In my scenario, where I don't have lifelong clinical depression, low dosing antidepressants as a crutch to build out of the hole is viable. For others (i.e. people who have attempted suicide as teenagers), it's kinda a necessity. Depression and anxiety is on a spectrum as well, and it goes very deep sometimes. And to follow-up, I did try those suggestions. Good, natural sleep helps the most and gives me the best emotional stability I've had recently. Unfortunately it's not enough. I've been trying to build for months now and I'm still nowhere. To put it another way, there are a myriad of ways to increase testosterone levels besides using TRT. Many of those methods are the same you suggest. However, if you're castrated... it ain't gonna do anything. A parallel with neurotransmitters exists (i.e. serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, ...) and I don't believe I am quite in that boat yet but there are many who are. My ex girlfriend attempted suicide at 11 and 18, and has successfully used prozac with, fortunately, no side-effects For sub-clinical depression, I firmly believe you're correct and building those habits goes a long way.
  - danenania 4y ago
    Makes sense. Sounds like you’ve thought it through and tried the other options. I hope the meds help.

danenania 4y ago

You know what’s best for you. I’m wondering though if you’ve tried the non-pharmaceutical options already? Daily exercise, time outside, eating healthy, limiting screen time, sleeping well, and all that. A lot of studies have found doing these things to be at least as effective as SSRIs. They can create hormonal and neurochemical changes that are just as strong. Check out some of Andrew Huberman’s podcasts for more on this. I wish you the best in any case with whatever route you take!

guerrilla 4y ago
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  > The point is that a depressed person can't do those things. You seem to have missed that. A depressed person can. The hardest thing for a depressed person is starting. But often when they can start they feel rewarded. But starting is the hardest thing in the world. Then there’s the problem of biological and neurological depression. Medicine doesn’t help with biological depression much if at all.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      > Please don't spread misinformation. You hurt people when you do this. Do you know what pre natal depression is? Anti depressants do not always work. Because it’s not a serotonin issue. Don’t tell me I’m spreading misinformation when I’m literally going through this right now with my wife.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        philliphaydon 4y ago
        > and some respond to treatment > much if at all Same same. I’ve spoken to more doctors in the past 5 months than I can count on my hands. The conclusion from all of them is that this is biological depression caused by the pregnancy which medicine most likely won’t help, which is also hindered by the fact she’s pregnant and that limits the available treatment. And this is different to, and quote “neurological” depression happening in the brain which would need constant treatment, so we can only manage the anxiety and bide our time till delivery day. What you’re saying is that the doctors and the stuff I’ve read is wrong and medical science doesn’t know what they are taking about.
atlas_hugged 4y ago
I’m so tired of hearing people say this as if we haven’t already googled every non-medical intervention imaginable before resorting to meds. Nobody wants to be on meds their whole life. Nobody. Why do people always assume I and others like me “took the easy way out” and always say “well did you just try exercise/sunlight/chakra/insertdietyhere??” Before I finally got a doctor that could help I was tormented by people like you because I thought I wasn’t good enough. Everyone else does these things and they’re “cured.” Why can’t I do it? Their response every single time was disbelief. “You’re just not trying hard enough.” Just. Just. Just. Just. I’ve grown to hate that word. People that say it tend to enjoy being dismissive of real problems. I honestly don’t care to look thru your comment history, but I know the odds are pretty high I’ll see that language over and over… The thing is, my experience isn’t even unique. It’s super common. Yet there’s always people like you that try their best to make us feel like we aren’t doing enough and it’s our own fault. The odds are the person you’re talking to is not a complete and total idiot and they already tried everything up to and sometimes including shoving Gwyneth Paltrow “healing crystals” up their vagina before trying meds. I’m incredibly fortunate medication was able to sort of help. I can at least tolerate life and be somewhat hopeful for my future. Not everyone is so lucky. My brother, for instance, is suffering from treatment resistant depression. My family are all trying to figure out how to help him before it’s too late. If I heard you or anyone say “did you just try exercising” to him in my presence, I’d find it exceedingly difficult to not break your nose, because I know how much that kind of talk will make him bed-ridden and suicidal.
- danenania 4y ago
  Honestly, I’m just sharing this stuff because I deal with depression too and it has helped me more than anything else, including SSRIs—I tried one years ago and found it to be worse than the depression. For me learning about the biochemistry involved really helped it click to the point that I was able to change some negative habits. I realize that what works for me won’t work for everyone, but it might for some. I’m by no means trying to imply anything negative about anyone who concludes that pharmaceuticals are the best (or only) option for them. I sincerely wish both you and your brother the best.
  - 4y ago
headsoup 4y ago
The fact anti-depressants have such serious potential side-effects should mean anyone considering them is at least hopefully fully informed and has exhausted other options. I'm sure many people find it insulting to have such 'obvious' solutions proposed, but you don't know who it might be helpful for.
- danenania 4y ago
  I think a lot of people know these things can help, but brush them off as serious options. Like they see them as homeopathic cures or folk wisdom vs. antidepressants being the real deal medical option. Add that changing habits is difficult, and people tend to dismiss the non-pharmaceutical options before giving them an honest try. It's hard to put the effort in if you're skeptical it's even going to help at all. Learning about the science behind it might change this perspective. For example, staying up until 3am looking at your phone or computer screen will mess with your hormone levels as much as if you took steroids. If you're doing this regularly and suffering from depression, there's a much simpler and more scientifically proven treatment available to you than an SSRI. While it does require more effort to change habits than taking a pill does, it's also more likely to make you feel better.
new_newbie 4y ago
There's a point where you're so broken that it's really not reasonable to build those again. For reference, I got into this position by doing a 30 week natural bodybuilding prep. I've done a variety of extreme physical feats including watercutting 16lbs over a day and all the others that come with wrestling too. All of these demand extreme willpower and discipline to the point of being considered indoctrination. If I detailed these things or shared pictures, no one would doubt I'm capable of building habits or routines normally. Right now I struggle to get myself to cook breakfast. In my scenario, where I don't have lifelong clinical depression, low dosing antidepressants as a crutch to build out of the hole is viable. For others (i.e. people who have attempted suicide as teenagers), it's kinda a necessity. Depression and anxiety is on a spectrum as well, and it goes very deep sometimes. And to follow-up, I did try those suggestions. Good, natural sleep helps the most and gives me the best emotional stability I've had recently. Unfortunately it's not enough. I've been trying to build for months now and I'm still nowhere. To put it another way, there are a myriad of ways to increase testosterone levels besides using TRT. Many of those methods are the same you suggest. However, if you're castrated... it ain't gonna do anything. A parallel with neurotransmitters exists (i.e. serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, ...) and I don't believe I am quite in that boat yet but there are many who are. My ex girlfriend attempted suicide at 11 and 18, and has successfully used prozac with, fortunately, no side-effects For sub-clinical depression, I firmly believe you're correct and building those habits goes a long way.
- danenania 4y ago
  Makes sense. Sounds like you’ve thought it through and tried the other options. I hope the meds help.