8 ms·

I remember those days, so many MMORPG on the market. Everquest, Asheron’s Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons, Anarchy Online, and so many others.

I remember those days, so many MMORPG on the market. Everquest, Asheron’s Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons, Anarchy Online, and so many others. I remember being involved in the community for an ultimately vaporware MMO. Realms of Torment / Age of Mourning. Then WoW came and the rest is history. I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphics. I swear it doesn’t even seem that hard nowadays for those kind of resources. I had hopes that Amazon’s MMO would show a glimpse of that. It didn’t yet.

lampshades 4y ago
I, like you, followed MMO to MMO throughout the 2000s and the road ended at WoW. I don’t think we’ll see the next big MMO until the Metaverse and VR become mainstream. I’ve given up all hope of anything ever competing with WoW. It was such a phenomenal game that nothing else has ever even come close. We need the next iteration of immersion technology before something can compete. I still miss that game so much.
- ThalesX 4y ago
  WoW was colossal. It shaped an entire generation I was part of; the socialization, camaraderie, ventrillo and teamspeak chats, friends all over the world. I can’t really imagine myself without it. I remember one New Year’s Eve in Goldshire. It still is honestly one of my favorite NYE. Getting drunk on voice chat, throwing fireworks, having engineers build all sorts of weird contraptions, some steamy chat with probably a balding dude playing a Night Elf chick. I still play every expansion. I make a new character and level it to max. But it takes ages and I usually solo and when I hit max I mostly stop. It’s a little guilty pleasure. I like to believe this is what kids today get with Fortnite and whatchamadoodle.
  - lampshades 4y ago
    An under appreciated aspect of WFH is that we just replaced TeamSpeak with Slack, raids with outages and releases, and quests with tickets. Maybe we’re already playing the next game.
  - poisonarena 4y ago
    I remember in Anarchy online my friend 'married' a 'woman' in Omni-One and I attended his wedding, he they exchanged in game rings and all and he bought 'her' a hover car
- Jonnston 4y ago
  FFXIV is actually bigger than WoW these days.
  - dimgl 4y ago
    > doubt
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      You doubt that FF14 has over taken WOW 2 years ago? Wow continues to lose players. Wow is down to like 15m and FF14 is up to around 24m. At its peak wow dwarfs every mmorpg in history tho.
      - Macha 4y ago
        24m is the total sales of FFXIV. 15m for WoW was the last published concurrent subscribers in ~2014. These are not comparable numbers. The current estimates are about 1.7m for FFXIV [1] and 1.2m for WoW [2] (+another 500k[3] if you include WoW classic, but there's some overlap between retail and classic). Since neither company releases subscriber counts that's our best guess. It's clear FFXIV was ahead of WoW while FFXIV was undergoing it's endwalker pre-launch hype and did well to retain those players post-launch compared to prior expansions, while at the same time WoW was undergoing it's peak period of shadowlands discontent. But as WoW gets into dragonflight hype mode and FFXIV is between patches, it looks like WoW has drawn back even for a while. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/u0gfwo/new_lucky_bancho_census_details_are_out/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/u0gfwo/new_lucky_ban... [2]: https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/ https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/ [3]: https://mmo-population.com/r/classicwow/ https://mmo-population.com/r/classicwow/
treis 4y ago
>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphic I'm mildly worried about the societal implications of something like that. EverQuest was pretty addictive as it was. Hard to fathom what something even more immersive with essentially infinite content would be like.
- loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  There’s an anime about that (Sword Art Online) ;)
- reshie 4y ago
  it had another name. evercrack.
numen9311 4y ago
>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphics. If you think this is all video gaming industry is your going to have a bad time, none of these would contribute to making a half decent game, let alone an mmo.
- ThalesX 4y ago
  I'm not sure why you'd go with this take. I'm not saying throw some AI, some GPT+ prompts and Unreal 5, deploy it to EC2 and call it a day. There's gameplay elements, main storylines, side quests, great campaigns and assets that can be done by humans, you'd of course need to make it a game. Is this a reason why the weird hermit NPC living in the forest shouldn't have a richer life than sitting in his hut all day? All I'm is saying is that I'd like a new age MMORPG using these new technologies that can help create dynamic rich worlds, populate them with reasonably realistic NPC and have nicely polished clients, especially with the $bajillions that get thrown around tech nowadays.
- cs137 4y ago
  Agree. Graphics matter but aren't the most important thing, and anyone who thinks GPT-3 can write compelling storylines doesn't understand GPT-3 or story craft. A FAANG would fuck up any MMO it tried. Trust me on this. I could say more, but I'd dox myself. They simply don't have the DNA for it. What would happen is that control of the thing would be given to CEO's pets and corporate bikeshedders and the product would be mediocre. If a company is going to create a new great MMO, it needs to be a single-purpose company dedicated toward just that... and, of course, that means it's taking a huge risk. It will also need to resist the temptation to get bought by an existing FAANG, because as soon as it is, the quality will decline.
  - ThalesX 4y ago
    I'm keeping my dream, thank you. > Graphics matter but aren't the most important thing, and anyone who thinks GPT-3 can write compelling storylines doesn't understand GPT-3 or story craft. I asked GPT-3 (let's pretend for a moment that it's not going to be replaced soon with something more powerful): "You are a pig farmer. Recently, kobolds have started stealing your sheep. You're asking any stranger that looks like he might be up for the job, to help you get rid of the kobolds. Write ten ways in which you'd tell people to help you. Make it a bit verbose.". I'm adding the result after the post [0]. Is this really so bad for a random off-quest out in the world? I also tried variations where I described the context of the farmer (wife, kids, jolly fellow) and it adapted outputs. I think these kind of tools will be invaluable for NPC of the future, and indeed, for story writers. > A FAANG would fuck up any MMO it tried. [...] What would happen is that control of the thing would be given to CEO's pets and corporate bikeshedders and the product would be mediocre. > If a company is going to create a new great MMO, it needs to be a single-purpose company dedicated toward just that... and, of course, that means it's taking a huge risk. It will also need to resist the temptation to get bought by an existing FAANG, because as soon as it is, the quality will decline. Surely this can't be the case for all present and future FAANG-level companies. I'm sorry but it just feels like you have a beef with whatever company is that you're projecting onto this. Would this new company not have a CEO that would have some pets, and other people involved that might contribute to some mediocre decisions? Is it somehow isolated because it's a single purpose MMORPG company? [0] ``` 1. "I'm a pig farmer, and I've been having some trouble with kobolds stealing my sheep. If you're up for the job, I could really use your help." 2. "I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'm willing to pay for your services." 3. "I'm not sure if you're the right person for the job, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Do you think you could help me out?" 4. "I'd be very grateful if you could help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'll make it worth your while." 5. "I don't know if you're up for the challenge, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Are you interested?" 6. "I don't know if you have the skills for this, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Would you be willing to help me out?" 7. "I can't do this by myself - I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Can you help me?" 8. "I'm not sure if you're the right person for this, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Would you be interested in helping me out?" 9. "I could really use your help to get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'll make it worth your while." 10. "I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. If you're up for the job, I'd be very grateful." ```
gww 4y ago
Most of my favorite MMORPG memories are with AC, despite playing WoW for many more years. There was something about the way skills were done and how your character could feel truly powerful. I learned to program because of that game so I could write decal plugins.
chmod775 4y ago
>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. FAANG huh... Considering the recent track record of the bigger US studios, I'm not holding my breath for anything that's more than a fleeting curiosity. >A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphics. So here's some MMORPGs roughly in order of current popularity: 1. FFXIV/Lost Ark, 2. OSRS, 3. WoW. They're doing fine without fancy cloud tech, GPT generated nonsense will make any of these games worse (good side-quests aren't about having lots of text nobody reads), and players tend to not care about graphics beyond "is it good enough?" (Graphics sell games, they don't retain players). I think AI will be able to write, design and code interesting and fun quests about five years after it starts writing mostly good novels. Looking at the games in general, it would appear that at the top end creativity, craftsmanship, and unique opinionated design beats formulaic games with pretty graphics and cool tech every time. If creating "the next big game" is what you're aiming for, technology should be the means to realize your vision and not the goal itself.
- ThalesX 4y ago
  > FAANG huh... Major US based video RPG developers (to be fair there's like one and a half of them) seem to be chronically unable to craft interesting worlds in recent years. They're still doing fine creating gameplay that ticks all the boxes of superficial fun, but I'm not holding my breath that the design by committee approach is going to yield anything actually engaging. I don't find it impossible that the "new WoW" might pop up from a FAANG-level company. They have the resources, the tech and they can acquire IP that's already made by indie and build on top of that, or hire talent and actually let them do their job. I know it's dreamy, but it's not impossible. > So here's some MMORPGs roughly in order of current popularity: 1. FFXIV/Lost Ark, 2. OSRS, 3. WoW. > They're doing fine without fancy cloud tech, They mostly don't have it, so have to do fine without it. Also WoW: Shadowlands had massive lag for shared zones, fancy cloud tech could probably help a bit > GPT generated nonsense will make any of these games worse (good side-quests aren't about having lots of text nobody reads), Transformer models can be used for more than just text generation, and you can use other models to produce a lot of quirky content. I think if sprinkled on correctly, it would really give life to some NPC and locations. > and players tend to not care about graphics beyond "is it good enough?" (Graphics sell games, they don't retain players). Well good graphics on decent machines certainly don't shy players away either. Personally I like the WoW engine as it's somewhat timeless, but I would love to see a shiny new one with all the foo and bar. > Speaking of AI in general... I think AI will be able to write, design and code interesting and fun quests about five years after it writes its first good novel. I guess it could be used to manage biomes, regional planning, urbanism, random events, some needs for NPCs etc. Imagine the team of writers comes up with a 'harsh winter' event, where apart from the content they produce, it requires the "Weather AI" to create the conditions for that harsh winter. It would be magical to have this kind of creative control over the world and have NPC AI react to it. Want to add a pirate event? AI can suggest realistic locations, NPC, maybe some storylines for inspiration that can be tweaked. Maybe the villager AIs would start having trouble from the raids so they would try to solve the problem locally by forming a militia and fighting the pirates. Maybe it wouldn't work, but that town's demographics would be forever altered. Famine could come next collapsing the village even though the pirate threat has been dealt with. I don't know if this level of world dynamism can be done without AI and AI agents. > Looking at the RPG space in general, it would appear that creativity, craftsmanship, and unique opinionated design beats formulaic games with pretty graphics and cool tech every time. Surely such an awesome technical feat such as the game I'm imagining, with perfect code and CI/CD pipelines, minimal resource consumption and an amazing team behind, it would be trivial to add handcrafted experiences in this massive world.
shrimp_emoji 4y ago
>Then WoW came and the rest is history. https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64 https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64
wishfish 4y ago
The market's largely spoken. They don't want a new WoW. WoW does still have millions of players and is a recognizable part of pop culture. Though much less than it used to be. FFXIV seems to have around the same numbers these days, though with maybe less mainstream recognizability. But there doesn't seem to be much mass appetite for a new MMO property. There's some buzz when a new one gets released and then it quickly fades. It's interesting to me that the WoW-killer wasn't another MMO. It was Minecraft back in the day. And then Roblox supplanted Minecraft. At least with kids. Kind of an interesting indication that many players preferred more creative environments over more rigid theme parks.
- mtoddsmith 4y ago
  WoW is pretty hard for younger kids to get into. Minecraft and Roblox are available on ipads and WoW is not.
  - wishfish 4y ago
    Minecraft surpassed WoW while it was still Java only and entirely on desktops.
GolfPopper 4y ago
I expect the key to "next-gen WoW" will be somebody (FAANG or indy) figuring out how to mix player-generated content into something like the classic MMO (gameplay, social, quasi-economic) package. EVE Online is actually close, except that aspects of its genre and gameplay only have niche appeal.

lampshades 4y ago

I, like you, followed MMO to MMO throughout the 2000s and the road ended at WoW. I don’t think we’ll see the next big MMO until the Metaverse and VR become mainstream. I’ve given up all hope of anything ever competing with WoW. It was such a phenomenal game that nothing else has ever even come close. We need the next iteration of immersion technology before something can compete. I still miss that game so much.

ThalesX 4y ago
WoW was colossal. It shaped an entire generation I was part of; the socialization, camaraderie, ventrillo and teamspeak chats, friends all over the world. I can’t really imagine myself without it. I remember one New Year’s Eve in Goldshire. It still is honestly one of my favorite NYE. Getting drunk on voice chat, throwing fireworks, having engineers build all sorts of weird contraptions, some steamy chat with probably a balding dude playing a Night Elf chick. I still play every expansion. I make a new character and level it to max. But it takes ages and I usually solo and when I hit max I mostly stop. It’s a little guilty pleasure. I like to believe this is what kids today get with Fortnite and whatchamadoodle.
- lampshades 4y ago
  An under appreciated aspect of WFH is that we just replaced TeamSpeak with Slack, raids with outages and releases, and quests with tickets. Maybe we’re already playing the next game.
- poisonarena 4y ago
  I remember in Anarchy online my friend 'married' a 'woman' in Omni-One and I attended his wedding, he they exchanged in game rings and all and he bought 'her' a hover car
Jonnston 4y ago
FFXIV is actually bigger than WoW these days.
- dimgl 4y ago
  > doubt
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    You doubt that FF14 has over taken WOW 2 years ago? Wow continues to lose players. Wow is down to like 15m and FF14 is up to around 24m. At its peak wow dwarfs every mmorpg in history tho.
    - Macha 4y ago
      24m is the total sales of FFXIV. 15m for WoW was the last published concurrent subscribers in ~2014. These are not comparable numbers. The current estimates are about 1.7m for FFXIV [1] and 1.2m for WoW [2] (+another 500k[3] if you include WoW classic, but there's some overlap between retail and classic). Since neither company releases subscriber counts that's our best guess. It's clear FFXIV was ahead of WoW while FFXIV was undergoing it's endwalker pre-launch hype and did well to retain those players post-launch compared to prior expansions, while at the same time WoW was undergoing it's peak period of shadowlands discontent. But as WoW gets into dragonflight hype mode and FFXIV is between patches, it looks like WoW has drawn back even for a while. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/u0gfwo/new_lucky_bancho_census_details_are_out/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/u0gfwo/new_lucky_ban... [2]: https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/ https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/ [3]: https://mmo-population.com/r/classicwow/ https://mmo-population.com/r/classicwow/

treis 4y ago

>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphic I'm mildly worried about the societal implications of something like that. EverQuest was pretty addictive as it was. Hard to fathom what something even more immersive with essentially infinite content would be like.

loloquwowndueo 4y ago
There’s an anime about that (Sword Art Online) ;)
reshie 4y ago
it had another name. evercrack.

numen9311 4y ago

>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphics. If you think this is all video gaming industry is your going to have a bad time, none of these would contribute to making a half decent game, let alone an mmo.

ThalesX 4y ago
I'm not sure why you'd go with this take. I'm not saying throw some AI, some GPT+ prompts and Unreal 5, deploy it to EC2 and call it a day. There's gameplay elements, main storylines, side quests, great campaigns and assets that can be done by humans, you'd of course need to make it a game. Is this a reason why the weird hermit NPC living in the forest shouldn't have a richer life than sitting in his hut all day? All I'm is saying is that I'd like a new age MMORPG using these new technologies that can help create dynamic rich worlds, populate them with reasonably realistic NPC and have nicely polished clients, especially with the $bajillions that get thrown around tech nowadays.
cs137 4y ago
Agree. Graphics matter but aren't the most important thing, and anyone who thinks GPT-3 can write compelling storylines doesn't understand GPT-3 or story craft. A FAANG would fuck up any MMO it tried. Trust me on this. I could say more, but I'd dox myself. They simply don't have the DNA for it. What would happen is that control of the thing would be given to CEO's pets and corporate bikeshedders and the product would be mediocre. If a company is going to create a new great MMO, it needs to be a single-purpose company dedicated toward just that... and, of course, that means it's taking a huge risk. It will also need to resist the temptation to get bought by an existing FAANG, because as soon as it is, the quality will decline.
- ThalesX 4y ago
  I'm keeping my dream, thank you. > Graphics matter but aren't the most important thing, and anyone who thinks GPT-3 can write compelling storylines doesn't understand GPT-3 or story craft. I asked GPT-3 (let's pretend for a moment that it's not going to be replaced soon with something more powerful): "You are a pig farmer. Recently, kobolds have started stealing your sheep. You're asking any stranger that looks like he might be up for the job, to help you get rid of the kobolds. Write ten ways in which you'd tell people to help you. Make it a bit verbose.". I'm adding the result after the post [0]. Is this really so bad for a random off-quest out in the world? I also tried variations where I described the context of the farmer (wife, kids, jolly fellow) and it adapted outputs. I think these kind of tools will be invaluable for NPC of the future, and indeed, for story writers. > A FAANG would fuck up any MMO it tried. [...] What would happen is that control of the thing would be given to CEO's pets and corporate bikeshedders and the product would be mediocre. > If a company is going to create a new great MMO, it needs to be a single-purpose company dedicated toward just that... and, of course, that means it's taking a huge risk. It will also need to resist the temptation to get bought by an existing FAANG, because as soon as it is, the quality will decline. Surely this can't be the case for all present and future FAANG-level companies. I'm sorry but it just feels like you have a beef with whatever company is that you're projecting onto this. Would this new company not have a CEO that would have some pets, and other people involved that might contribute to some mediocre decisions? Is it somehow isolated because it's a single purpose MMORPG company? [0] ``` 1. "I'm a pig farmer, and I've been having some trouble with kobolds stealing my sheep. If you're up for the job, I could really use your help." 2. "I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'm willing to pay for your services." 3. "I'm not sure if you're the right person for the job, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Do you think you could help me out?" 4. "I'd be very grateful if you could help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'll make it worth your while." 5. "I don't know if you're up for the challenge, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Are you interested?" 6. "I don't know if you have the skills for this, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Would you be willing to help me out?" 7. "I can't do this by myself - I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Can you help me?" 8. "I'm not sure if you're the right person for this, but I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. Would you be interested in helping me out?" 9. "I could really use your help to get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. I'll make it worth your while." 10. "I need someone to help me get rid of the kobolds that have been stealing my sheep. If you're up for the job, I'd be very grateful." ```

gww 4y ago

Most of my favorite MMORPG memories are with AC, despite playing WoW for many more years. There was something about the way skills were done and how your character could feel truly powerful. I learned to program because of that game so I could write decal plugins.

chmod775 4y ago

>I think we need a new WoW, and I think it’s going to have to come from FAANG level company. FAANG huh... Considering the recent track record of the bigger US studios, I'm not holding my breath for anything that's more than a fleeting curiosity. >A fully dynamic cloud backed world running AI agents, GPT-3+ storylines, Unreal 5 graphics. So here's some MMORPGs roughly in order of current popularity: 1. FFXIV/Lost Ark, 2. OSRS, 3. WoW. They're doing fine without fancy cloud tech, GPT generated nonsense will make any of these games worse (good side-quests aren't about having lots of text nobody reads), and players tend to not care about graphics beyond "is it good enough?" (Graphics sell games, they don't retain players). I think AI will be able to write, design and code interesting and fun quests about five years after it starts writing mostly good novels. Looking at the games in general, it would appear that at the top end creativity, craftsmanship, and unique opinionated design beats formulaic games with pretty graphics and cool tech every time. If creating "the next big game" is what you're aiming for, technology should be the means to realize your vision and not the goal itself.

ThalesX 4y ago
> FAANG huh... Major US based video RPG developers (to be fair there's like one and a half of them) seem to be chronically unable to craft interesting worlds in recent years. They're still doing fine creating gameplay that ticks all the boxes of superficial fun, but I'm not holding my breath that the design by committee approach is going to yield anything actually engaging. I don't find it impossible that the "new WoW" might pop up from a FAANG-level company. They have the resources, the tech and they can acquire IP that's already made by indie and build on top of that, or hire talent and actually let them do their job. I know it's dreamy, but it's not impossible. > So here's some MMORPGs roughly in order of current popularity: 1. FFXIV/Lost Ark, 2. OSRS, 3. WoW. > They're doing fine without fancy cloud tech, They mostly don't have it, so have to do fine without it. Also WoW: Shadowlands had massive lag for shared zones, fancy cloud tech could probably help a bit > GPT generated nonsense will make any of these games worse (good side-quests aren't about having lots of text nobody reads), Transformer models can be used for more than just text generation, and you can use other models to produce a lot of quirky content. I think if sprinkled on correctly, it would really give life to some NPC and locations. > and players tend to not care about graphics beyond "is it good enough?" (Graphics sell games, they don't retain players). Well good graphics on decent machines certainly don't shy players away either. Personally I like the WoW engine as it's somewhat timeless, but I would love to see a shiny new one with all the foo and bar. > Speaking of AI in general... I think AI will be able to write, design and code interesting and fun quests about five years after it writes its first good novel. I guess it could be used to manage biomes, regional planning, urbanism, random events, some needs for NPCs etc. Imagine the team of writers comes up with a 'harsh winter' event, where apart from the content they produce, it requires the "Weather AI" to create the conditions for that harsh winter. It would be magical to have this kind of creative control over the world and have NPC AI react to it. Want to add a pirate event? AI can suggest realistic locations, NPC, maybe some storylines for inspiration that can be tweaked. Maybe the villager AIs would start having trouble from the raids so they would try to solve the problem locally by forming a militia and fighting the pirates. Maybe it wouldn't work, but that town's demographics would be forever altered. Famine could come next collapsing the village even though the pirate threat has been dealt with. I don't know if this level of world dynamism can be done without AI and AI agents. > Looking at the RPG space in general, it would appear that creativity, craftsmanship, and unique opinionated design beats formulaic games with pretty graphics and cool tech every time. Surely such an awesome technical feat such as the game I'm imagining, with perfect code and CI/CD pipelines, minimal resource consumption and an amazing team behind, it would be trivial to add handcrafted experiences in this massive world.

shrimp_emoji 4y ago

>Then WoW came and the rest is history. https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64 https://youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64

wishfish 4y ago

The market's largely spoken. They don't want a new WoW. WoW does still have millions of players and is a recognizable part of pop culture. Though much less than it used to be. FFXIV seems to have around the same numbers these days, though with maybe less mainstream recognizability. But there doesn't seem to be much mass appetite for a new MMO property. There's some buzz when a new one gets released and then it quickly fades. It's interesting to me that the WoW-killer wasn't another MMO. It was Minecraft back in the day. And then Roblox supplanted Minecraft. At least with kids. Kind of an interesting indication that many players preferred more creative environments over more rigid theme parks.

mtoddsmith 4y ago
WoW is pretty hard for younger kids to get into. Minecraft and Roblox are available on ipads and WoW is not.
- wishfish 4y ago
  Minecraft surpassed WoW while it was still Java only and entirely on desktops.

GolfPopper 4y ago

I expect the key to "next-gen WoW" will be somebody (FAANG or indy) figuring out how to mix player-generated content into something like the classic MMO (gameplay, social, quasi-economic) package. EVE Online is actually close, except that aspects of its genre and gameplay only have niche appeal.