17 ms·
Hello there, I live in Berlin now and used to live in the United States. My family is there, and I go back to the east coast of the US often. The degenerating a
by bshepard 4y ago
Hello there, I live in Berlin now and used to live in the United States. My family is there, and I go back to the east coast of the US often. The degenerating and dystopian quality of the United States is difficult to overstate, but almost impossible to capture verbally.
Whatever one cause attributes to the systematic breakdown of the US, it is difficult to deny the realities of the decline -- massive alcohol and narcotic dependency issues, increase polarization of politics, censoriousness on all sides of the discussion, narrowness, a shortening of attention, a loss of standards. I could go on, but it's too depressing.
I came to Berlin first in 2006. Yes, it was very cheap then, but also very monocultural: now there are many more forms of life here, and they benefit from their coexistence. Stay here, make this moderately good place even better.
- bshepard 4y agoThis is not exactly a financial response, and that was the context of your question, so forgive the somewhat off-topic aspect of the remark -- yet, the negative aspects of life in the US have both real actual costs and possible future risks. All the talk about civil war might be bluff, but it is still alarming.
- koevet 4y agono worries, it definitively helps to put things in perspective. We have not made our mind up yet, so these "angles" are super helpful too.
- dewey 4y agoHow is that's even slightly related to OPs question? > Stay here, make this moderately good place even better I think you missed the part about his wife's job in the US which is the reason for the move in the first place.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- baisq 4y agoThat's not a problem if you have money.
- hans1729 4y agoIf you don't want kids. If you do, it's always a factor. Do you want your kids to grow up in a stable culture, or in a declining one? Surrounded by polarization, extremes of all kinds, instability? I consider moving to the US for a couple of years for the money, but the second that kids are on the horizon, I would book a plane ticket to Europe.
- jules 4y agoI get that you may want to move here if you want to have kids, but isn't Europe declining at least as fast as the US?
- grey-area 4y agoNo
- mensetmanusman 4y agoEuropean fertility levels are lower than the US, so they are declining faster.
- heavyset_go 4y agoFertility rates are not the only factor in a declining society.
- jacquesm 4y agoFor that purpose 'having money' is not the kind of money that a typical immigrant from Europe will bring with them, especially not if they still have to work for a living.
- heavyset_go 4y agoDepends what you mean by "have money". Plenty of small business owners with a few million dollars in savings and assets have had to liquidate them to pay for healthcare for themselves or their family members. It can cost over $1 million to survive a heart attack in the US, and the disability of oneself or family members can easily cost millions of dollars in healthcare expenses over a lifetime.
- guerrilla 4y agoNot to mention abysmal health and social services.
- teekert 4y agoI’ve been to the US a couple times for work (all over), always travelled around a bit. I found the people to very, very warm and kind everywhere. Racial segregation is sometimes too real in some places but the black people there seem so positively surprised and very kind when you ask them something as a white dude, it’s easy and rewarding to just be the change you want to see in that respect. The only reservation I’d have is about the healthcare system especially as you grow older. Maybe get well informed about good insurance.
- diognesofsinope 4y agoFederal government literally spends over $1T on healthcare for the elderly. The healthcare issues in the country have never been about the old.
- teekert 4y agoOh that’s good to hear, I got the impression it was only good as a veteran.
- guerrilla 4y agoWhat are you talking about, health care for the elderly is terrible! I guess you've never had to take care of an old person in the US? And never been exposed to northern European healthcare?
- feet 4y agoYou bring up a good point, even though the US spends the most per capita on health care we actually have the worst outcomes https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0252_health_outcomes_spending https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0252_health_outcomes_spen...
- kongolongo 4y agoEvery time this stat is brought up I always think it doesn't convey the full context. Even though its in terms of per capita, it's still an absolute amount, I think a better data point to illustrate if the US was overspending compared to outcomes would be what % of disposable income is spent on healthcare vs outcomes. For example, let's say the US spent 2x on healthcare as some country, but had 4x the disposable income, would this still be overspending or would it be more efficient given the amount relative to income? The closest I can find is health spending as % of GDP but that doesn't capture what a person's income, since it includes government spending too, so it obfuscates whether or not the inefficiency (if any) lies in private or public healthcare in the US.
- wozer 4y agoIs it really that bad in the US? Makes me wonder if I should continue to invest in the US stock market...
- bshepard 4y agoThe success of the US stock market and the US as a society are not exactly related, and may in fact have an adversarial relationship, so continued investment in the US could be wise.
- throw__away7391 4y agoOh, the US _economy_ is incredibly strong, opportunity abounds, and looking at the headwinds other economies around the world will face in decades to come I would guess it will only get better in comparison to the rest of the world...it just kind of sucks to live here in most places, and the ones that don't are crazy expensive. Think of the US as a farm for humans.
- lazide 4y agoMore folks than usual are hating everyone after years of lockdown and burnout from an overheating economy + Covid due to a decade and a half of fed pumps, but it’s still a small portion of the population. The ‘everything in the US is global news’, and the end stage ‘ramp up the blood and panic’ from the media companies trying to get more revenue before they go bankrupt doesn’t help.
- silisili 4y agoNo. It's hyper localized. So someone in SF may think the US is turning to crap because they see an increase in homeless, drug use, etc. In all the areas I've lived here, which are not big cities, you see none of that.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThe US is vast, things are great where I’m at.
- csomar 4y agoNo. The US is more stable than Europe will ever be. However, the US makes lots of drama (both TV series and politics-wise, heck even in its industries). The average US-person can't shut up. Also the OP seems to be a white guy, which is cool for Europe as it's a place with unrecognized racism and discrimination. The US on the other hand is very welcoming to foreigners (socially). Your neighbor, the barman and people on the street will talk to you. I think it's part of the reason why the US managed the integration of new people easily. It's easier to leave your way of doing things back when you are welcomed. Foreign societies in European are segregated (culturally) even though they live door to door with other Europeans.
- martinald 4y agoYes, because there are no alcohol or drug issues in Berlin! What an over the top comment. The US regardless of these issues is an enormously successful country, with some of the friendlist people when you visit (I'm from the UK originally but travel a lot).
- bshepard 4y agoThere's a lot of alcohol and drug use in Berlin, but there are not vast open air drug markets like Kensington in Philadelphia or Skid Row in San Francisco. The issue is, indeed, "over the top."
- wreath 4y agoCheck Moritzplatz and Schonleinstrasse and come back here..
- berndi 4y agoThats not even close.
- morelisp 4y agoWe could quibble about "vast", but the difference between Berlin's drug markets and the US's isn't really the intensity, but safety. (Don't totally misunderstand - they're still some of the least safe places in Berlin, but nothing like Kensington - which in turn also not as bad as pearl-clutchers would have you believe.)
- guerrilla 4y ago> Skid Row in San Francisco. Literal Skid Row is in Los Angeles[1], the figurative skid row in SF is called the Tenderloin [2]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_Row,_Los_Angeles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_Row,_Los_Angeles 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_row#San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_row#San_Francisco
- martinald 4y agoIs this the same Berlin I've been to? Many of the parks are literally open air drug markets?!
- seibelj 4y agoThis is hilariously inaccurate and essentially a stereotype perceived from the Reddit front page. Europe is experiencing legions of issues including runaway inflation, a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable, a migrant crisis that is causing their own racial issues that they pretend don’t exist but are causing huge polarization and the rise of right-wing parties, a business climate that has produced essentially zero large companies in decades, and on and on.
- guerrilla 4y ago> including runaway inflation The same as everywhere... due to a war and pandemic. > a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable Completely false. Do you even read our budgets? Your debt-to-GDB was literally 3x ours last year. European countries aren't even allowed to deficit spend more than a few percent (which is what got Greece in trouble, for example.) > they pretend don’t exist I'm guessing you don't speak any European languages or you'd know this isn't true. > business climate that has produced essentially zero large companies in decades, and on and on. Ummm, right... like ARM, Skype, Spotify, Klarna, all the telecom suppliers, not to mention some of the biggest multinationals on the planet (whom you probably think are American)
- seibelj 4y agoI find lectures about American society from Europeans, as the parent comment did, exceedingly ironic and misinformed considering the same issues plague both sides. Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation. The grass is always greener but I prefer it here.
- guerrilla 4y agoI lived in both, each for the same amount of time, and the US is a wasteland compared to this in many ways. Both sides are effected by the global economy and geopolitics, but things are handled much better here. > Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation. This is delusional. All you've ever done is make the world more insecure for your own gain[1]. You invade and overthrow everyone who ever disagreed with you and scream "freedom" at everyone. > The grass is always greener but I prefer it here. You've never lived here, that's why. 1. https://github.com/binka/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://github.com/binka/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md
- mihaic 4y agoThis comment captures my experience from lowly Eastern Europe as well, even though the US has some exceptional business opportunities. It's true that money can insulate you from this societal degradation, but because of this approach by the upper class, the income percentile to maintain isolation is getting narrower by the day, until it practically evaporates.
- wsostt 4y agoThis is a perfectly acceptable view of the United States if you only watch television news.
- a-dub 4y ago> Stay here, make this moderately good place even better. or better yet, come to the us and bring your good influence to help get this troubled place back on track. the political situation in the united states is indeed complex and troubled, but the influence and impact of the united states on western nations is undeniable. if it does implode in some horrific way, it's hard to imagine a scenario where it doesn't drag the rest of the west down with it.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoIf you preach to a voting base who will vote against you at every turn, good influence has no value. You can only go where you are welcome to share, where ideas can be safely and intelligently discussed, and reasonable people can come to some sort of compromise or a solution all can agree on. US politics have become too polarized, where constituents don't want solutions (evidenced by them voting for representatives who don't vote in the public interest, or who publicly gloat about hurting the other side through policy), and no one person has the power to move the needle (not to mention Citizen's United where the wealthy can pour unfathomable amounts of fiat into races to back their candidates and their politics). Know when to hold them, and know when to fold them. EDIT: And it's not just the elected. A SCOTUS Justice motivated purely by hate. https://www.businessinsider.com/clarence-thomas-told-clerks-he-wants-to-make-liberals-miserable-2022-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/clarence-thomas-told-clerks-... https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/27/us/2-years-after-his-bruising-hearing-justice-thomas-can-rarely-be-heard.html https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/27/us/2-years-after-his-brui... > Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas told his law clerks in the '90s that he wanted to serve for 43 years to make liberals' lives 'miserable' (us citizen leaving for western europe)
- a-dub 4y ago> Know when to hold them, and know when to fold them. i understand and appreciate the desire to walk away. it's the classic, quiet, dignified and usually effective response to insanity. (and american politics, for the last 6 years at least, has been nothing short of insanity) but unfortunately i don't think it works that way. i think that leaving only serves to both export polarization and make matters worse. i suspect the us is too big and the world is too small.
- parkingrift 4y agoThis post brought to you by the front page of Reddit.com. This is either a troll response or you’re outright detached from reality.