5 ms·

What's your explanation for the fact that Moderna patented the very specific 19-nucleotide sequence that codes Sars-COV-2 furin cleavage site in 2018?

by tomp 4y ago

culi 4y ago
Uhhh do you think it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that Sars-COV-1 had already caused an outbreak and the WHO already had already placed these viruses on their watchlist of viruses with the most potential to cause a pandemic... EDIT: > The SARS-related coronavirus was one of several viruses identified by the World Health Organization (WHO) in 2016 as a likely cause of a future epidemic in a new plan developed after the Ebola epidemic for urgent research and development before and during an epidemic towards diagnostic tests, vaccines and medicines. This prediction came to pass with the COVID-19 pandemic. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/after-ebola-a-blueprint-emerges-to-jump-start-r-d/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/after-ebola-... EDIT2: The research effort to predict future outbreaks evolved into some really cool stuff like this: https://spillover.global/ranking-comparison/ https://spillover.global/ranking-comparison/ Inevitably one of these will result in another outbreak and inevitably there will have been a lab trying to study it in preparation and inevitably another big-brain is gonna find some patent or paper that predates the outbreak and use it as "evidence" for their conspiracy
mikeyouse 4y ago
Just think about what you're claiming here with this silly question. You honestly think Moderna patented a sequence multiple years ago, and then what, shared their research with the Chinese to unleash a virus and create demand for a vaccine they hadn't invented yet? Why in the world would they patent it before that? It's literally the dumbest nonsense. A more direct refutation though is that the authors were extremely out of their depth and didn't remotely understand the results from their BLASTing. The moderna sequence is the reverse complement and doesn't even encode proteins. In the DNA repair context for which Moderna the patent covers, it codes for a specific (Non FCS protein) and can even be found in birds. Did Moderna invent birds too? https://twitter.com/emmecola/status/1468569894245572612 https://twitter.com/emmecola/status/1468569894245572612 https://twitter.com/MGerdol/status/1496130768854212624 https://twitter.com/MGerdol/status/1496130768854212624
- Iwan-Zotow 4y ago
  Patent, by definition, is shared and public knowledge (but not a public ownership)
- nostrebored 4y ago
  Yes, Chinese academia and business has no history of IP theft! To be clear I agree with the rest of your sentiment. I think the nucleotide sequence as evidence is very weak. It’s the same amount of randomness as a 42 bit sequence assuming independence in both
- YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
  > Did Moderna invent birds too? Maybe they did... https://birdsarentreal.com/ https://birdsarentreal.com/
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    No. This is how you end up with flat earthers.
- salawat 4y ago
  ...The entire point of patents is the spread of knowledge. What, you think researchers, people that are by definition expected to be well acquainted with the cutting edge state of the art, aren't trolling patent streams for inspiration? I'm not even that much a cutting edge guy (I try to bring yesterday's innovation that no one noticed to people not even aware they should be looking at it) and I dig through the odd patent that catches my interest.
- tomp 4y ago
  Thanks for a sensible counterargument!
- kaitaincps 4y ago
  Also: Even the founders of Moderna would have had their lives made worse overall by SARS-COV-2. Money and utility are different things. They and their families now live in a shittier world. Even a (rational) psychopath would not gain overall from unleashing COVID on the world. Nobody wins.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
You realize COVID-19 is the second major SARS coronavirus outbreak the world has seen, right? Much of the research on the spike protein for COVID-19 came directly from SARS 1 research a decade ago. The fact we were able to have vaccines ready in 12 months is because of this research on SARS 1 and the spike protein.
jahewson 4y ago
The answer is that the Sars-COV-2 cleavage site, while novel for a coronavirus, is not novel biologically. It's seen elsewhere and corresponds to the inverse of the human protein MSH3, which plays a role in certain cancers. It is not, as some people here are alleging, related to SARS-Cov-1.

What's your explanation for the fact that Moderna patented the very specific 19-nucleotide sequence that codes Sars-COV-2 furin cleavage site in 2018?

by tomp 4y ago

What's your explanation for the fact that Moderna patented the very specific 19-nucleotide sequence that codes Sars-COV-2 furin cleavage site in 2018?

culi 4y ago

Uhhh do you think it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that Sars-COV-1 had already caused an outbreak and the WHO already had already placed these viruses on their watchlist of viruses with the most potential to cause a pandemic... EDIT: > The SARS-related coronavirus was one of several viruses identified by the World Health Organization (WHO) in 2016 as a likely cause of a future epidemic in a new plan developed after the Ebola epidemic for urgent research and development before and during an epidemic towards diagnostic tests, vaccines and medicines. This prediction came to pass with the COVID-19 pandemic. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/after-ebola-a-blueprint-emerges-to-jump-start-r-d/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/after-ebola-... EDIT2: The research effort to predict future outbreaks evolved into some really cool stuff like this: https://spillover.global/ranking-comparison/ https://spillover.global/ranking-comparison/ Inevitably one of these will result in another outbreak and inevitably there will have been a lab trying to study it in preparation and inevitably another big-brain is gonna find some patent or paper that predates the outbreak and use it as "evidence" for their conspiracy

mikeyouse 4y ago

Just think about what you're claiming here with this silly question. You honestly think Moderna patented a sequence multiple years ago, and then what, shared their research with the Chinese to unleash a virus and create demand for a vaccine they hadn't invented yet? Why in the world would they patent it before that? It's literally the dumbest nonsense. A more direct refutation though is that the authors were extremely out of their depth and didn't remotely understand the results from their BLASTing. The moderna sequence is the reverse complement and doesn't even encode proteins. In the DNA repair context for which Moderna the patent covers, it codes for a specific (Non FCS protein) and can even be found in birds. Did Moderna invent birds too? https://twitter.com/emmecola/status/1468569894245572612 https://twitter.com/emmecola/status/1468569894245572612 https://twitter.com/MGerdol/status/1496130768854212624 https://twitter.com/MGerdol/status/1496130768854212624

Iwan-Zotow 4y ago
Patent, by definition, is shared and public knowledge (but not a public ownership)
nostrebored 4y ago
Yes, Chinese academia and business has no history of IP theft! To be clear I agree with the rest of your sentiment. I think the nucleotide sequence as evidence is very weak. It’s the same amount of randomness as a 42 bit sequence assuming independence in both
YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
> Did Moderna invent birds too? Maybe they did... https://birdsarentreal.com/ https://birdsarentreal.com/
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  No. This is how you end up with flat earthers.
salawat 4y ago
...The entire point of patents is the spread of knowledge. What, you think researchers, people that are by definition expected to be well acquainted with the cutting edge state of the art, aren't trolling patent streams for inspiration? I'm not even that much a cutting edge guy (I try to bring yesterday's innovation that no one noticed to people not even aware they should be looking at it) and I dig through the odd patent that catches my interest.
tomp 4y ago
Thanks for a sensible counterargument!
kaitaincps 4y ago
Also: Even the founders of Moderna would have had their lives made worse overall by SARS-COV-2. Money and utility are different things. They and their families now live in a shittier world. Even a (rational) psychopath would not gain overall from unleashing COVID on the world. Nobody wins.

qbasic_forever 4y ago

You realize COVID-19 is the second major SARS coronavirus outbreak the world has seen, right? Much of the research on the spike protein for COVID-19 came directly from SARS 1 research a decade ago. The fact we were able to have vaccines ready in 12 months is because of this research on SARS 1 and the spike protein.

jahewson 4y ago

The answer is that the Sars-COV-2 cleavage site, while novel for a coronavirus, is not novel biologically. It's seen elsewhere and corresponds to the inverse of the human protein MSH3, which plays a role in certain cancers. It is not, as some people here are alleging, related to SARS-Cov-1.