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> It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. Speaking as an outsider on American polit

> It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. Speaking as an outsider on American politics, it seems to me that it won't be figured out democratically. If it was done democratically, on a nationwide vote, abortion would easily stay legal. What will actually happen is that the decision will be referred to states, where government is elected on small turnouts, in gerrymandered divisions, heavily influenced by untrue TV propaganda funded by billionaires, and in many cases elected based on supposed economic reasons, not any moral ones. The effective result is that vulnerable young women will be forced to carry unwanted babies to term at the cost of great suffering to themselves and the resultant children. > with all political sides to blame. I can only see one side to blame here.

wilsonnb3 4y ago
As far as I am aware, every state in the US has a democratic government. > If it was done democratically, on a nationwide vote, abortion would easily stay legal. Direct democracy is not the only form of democracy. It has many problems.
- noasaservice 4y ago
  What is a democracy called when: 1. legislative lines for the state and federal areas look like a kindergardner drawing squigglies 2. When many states do everything they can to find reasons to disqualify valid voters 3. When felons are not legally able to vote, even after their time is served 4. When massive amounts of money come in from republican businesses to significantly sway elections 5. When massive lies and half-truths are put out in the media thanks to the massive money That just doesn't look like a democracy. What it is? I don't know.
  - abarwick 4y ago
    Exactly. It sounds faux-romantic to wane about democracy and the power of voting, but when the systems that support this system have been perverted over the course of decades, it becomes a horror story. Democracy as it has been thought of is dead (in the U.S.).
ncr100 4y ago
Agreed. This weakening of civil rights at the Federal level allows those Americans who are sexist to enact sexist laws where they have concentrated power within State boundaries. Welcome to "The Divided States"
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  People (at least currently, I don't have much hope after 2024) have the right to vote still, they could overturn this all in November if they wanted to instead of wailing and gnashing teeth, just simply go vote. The majority could easily toss out republic senators and representatives if they truly want to do something about this. I think people are too lazy though. It's a fkn shame.
thathndude 4y ago
I don’t believe that’s accurate. The Congress is already talking about passing nationwide legislation to protect the right to abortion. Such legislation would still be constitutional even after this decision. Having said that, I think national legislation is probably not the most effective way forward for the pro-choice movement. All that will do is continue to galvanize the pro life side.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The Congress is already talking about passing nationwide legislation to protect the right to abortion. Such legislation would still be constitutional even after this decision. Please cite the Constitutional power authorizing this, restricting it to powers that will hold up under the present Court against a state asserting the absence of Constitutional federal authority and infringement of powers reserved under the 10th Amendment. It can't be the power to enforce the 14th Amendment, because abortion as a right within that has been ruled out. A hyperexpansive view of the Commerce Clause? No, codification is a fools errand.
  - rufus_foreman 4y ago
    From Kavanaugh's concurrence: "On the question of abortion, the Constitution is therefore neither pro-life nor pro-choice. The Constitution is neutral and leaves the issue for the people and their elected representatives to resolve through the democratic process in the States or Congress — like the numerous other difficult questions of American social and economic policy that the Constitution does not address". ... "After today’s decision, the nine Members of this Court will no longer decide the basic legality of pre-viability abortion for all 330 million Americans. That issue will be resolved by the people and their representatives in the democratic process in the States or Congress."
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Even if it was in the main decision and not a concurrence, and even if a statement about the effect rather than legal rationale of a decision wouldn't be dicta rather than ruling even there, that statement does not erect any new Constitutional basis for Congressional action. If you think there is a basis in the Constitution for Congressional authority to protect abortion against state prohibition that this Court would uphold against a State challenge, please present the specific Constitutional grant of authority.

wilsonnb3 4y ago

As far as I am aware, every state in the US has a democratic government. > If it was done democratically, on a nationwide vote, abortion would easily stay legal. Direct democracy is not the only form of democracy. It has many problems.

noasaservice 4y ago
What is a democracy called when: 1. legislative lines for the state and federal areas look like a kindergardner drawing squigglies 2. When many states do everything they can to find reasons to disqualify valid voters 3. When felons are not legally able to vote, even after their time is served 4. When massive amounts of money come in from republican businesses to significantly sway elections 5. When massive lies and half-truths are put out in the media thanks to the massive money That just doesn't look like a democracy. What it is? I don't know.
- abarwick 4y ago
  Exactly. It sounds faux-romantic to wane about democracy and the power of voting, but when the systems that support this system have been perverted over the course of decades, it becomes a horror story. Democracy as it has been thought of is dead (in the U.S.).

ncr100 4y ago

Agreed. This weakening of civil rights at the Federal level allows those Americans who are sexist to enact sexist laws where they have concentrated power within State boundaries. Welcome to "The Divided States"

stjohnswarts 4y ago
People (at least currently, I don't have much hope after 2024) have the right to vote still, they could overturn this all in November if they wanted to instead of wailing and gnashing teeth, just simply go vote. The majority could easily toss out republic senators and representatives if they truly want to do something about this. I think people are too lazy though. It's a fkn shame.

thathndude 4y ago

I don’t believe that’s accurate. The Congress is already talking about passing nationwide legislation to protect the right to abortion. Such legislation would still be constitutional even after this decision. Having said that, I think national legislation is probably not the most effective way forward for the pro-choice movement. All that will do is continue to galvanize the pro life side.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> The Congress is already talking about passing nationwide legislation to protect the right to abortion. Such legislation would still be constitutional even after this decision. Please cite the Constitutional power authorizing this, restricting it to powers that will hold up under the present Court against a state asserting the absence of Constitutional federal authority and infringement of powers reserved under the 10th Amendment. It can't be the power to enforce the 14th Amendment, because abortion as a right within that has been ruled out. A hyperexpansive view of the Commerce Clause? No, codification is a fools errand.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  From Kavanaugh's concurrence: "On the question of abortion, the Constitution is therefore neither pro-life nor pro-choice. The Constitution is neutral and leaves the issue for the people and their elected representatives to resolve through the democratic process in the States or Congress — like the numerous other difficult questions of American social and economic policy that the Constitution does not address". ... "After today’s decision, the nine Members of this Court will no longer decide the basic legality of pre-viability abortion for all 330 million Americans. That issue will be resolved by the people and their representatives in the democratic process in the States or Congress."
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Even if it was in the main decision and not a concurrence, and even if a statement about the effect rather than legal rationale of a decision wouldn't be dicta rather than ruling even there, that statement does not erect any new Constitutional basis for Congressional action. If you think there is a basis in the Constitution for Congressional authority to protect abortion against state prohibition that this Court would uphold against a State challenge, please present the specific Constitutional grant of authority.