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If you've checked mdn or caniuse anytime in the last 2-3 years, you'd notice that Safari has been leading the gang in standard web feature adoption. Safari off

by isodev 4y ago

If you've checked mdn or caniuse anytime in the last 2-3 years, you'd notice that Safari has been leading the gang in standard web feature adoption. Safari offers the most refined developer experience for web dev and testing (my favourite are the automation capabilities which are incredible and private as it separates my data from test data during a run). With technology preview updates delivered directly in macOS, I'm always confident I have the latest setup to test my web apps...

lelandfe 4y ago
https://wpt.fyi/ https://wpt.fyi/ I really like Safari but no, they are definitely not "leading the gang" in adopting features.
tonetheman 4y ago
Look at the front page of https://caniuse.com/ https://caniuse.com/ At the bottom right there is a chart and Safari is in 3rd. I built a company based on browser testing and Safari in general was/is always behind. They have hired some good people so maybe that situation will change but in general Safari is the currently the boat anchor of browsers. Hopefully the situation will change over time.
MCArth 4y ago
This just isn't true! There are so many features that have not been supported long after other browsers implemented them (webgl 2 comes to mind, though that is finally available - 4% of global web users still don't have support due to this, though!)
- mtomweb 4y ago
  Exactly: Install Prompts - 7 Years. Fullscreen API - 11 Years. Push API - 7 Years. Badging - 5 years. Screen Orientation Lock - 11 years. Bluetooth - 5 years.
  - frumper 4y ago
    Nope, nope, definitely nope, not critical in the slightest, nope, and sounds like a very niche case that a native app would do just fine with.
    - agust 4y ago
      "A native app would do just fine", why would we want to build a native app using proprietary tech, be forced to go through an app store, risk to be turn down by Apple and be taxed 30% of our revenue otherwise? All this when we can build web apps using open standards, working on all platforms and without being extorted by a giant abusive conglomerate?
      - frumper 4y ago
        You would want to because you want access to Apple's customers. Also, your example doesn't sound like it'd hold up to real world practice. If you're selling someone proprietary tech then your revenue isn't subject to 30% of Apple's fee. Only the software portion done through the app is. You obviously have a motivated buyer at this point if they bought a physical device. You could route them to a website to create an account, sign up for any subscriptions and launch the startup process that eventually has them install your native app. You want what you want, but you describe hyperbole. Plenty of apps have users manage subscriptions on a website, not on native apps.
mtomweb 4y ago
You've got be joking right? ok so lets go through some stats: 1. Safari, performs worst on wpt.fyi by a VERY wide margin 2. In State of CSS last year had the most number of complaints in relation to bugs. 360 related to Safari, compared to 30 for chrome and 10 for firefox. 3. In the MDN developer Survey developers ranked Safari as the second biggest problem after IE. A browser that's no longer supported. 3. Doesn't really support Web Apps, no user findable method of install (install prompts), no push notifications. 4. Huge numbers of bugs (some of which haven't been fixed in over 7 years) 5. and the devtools are still far behind chromes. 6. and missing all of these: Notifications / Push API No AppStore Support App Store Support for Web Apps Fullscreen API Badging Deep Links Screen Orientation Lock Bluetooth NFC Web Share Target Screen Wakelock Keyboard Lock and Keyboard Layout APIs getInstalledRelatedApps() Background Fetch API Background Sync API WebGPU WebXR Offscreen Canvas Declarative Shadow DOM SQL SIMD WASM Threads Shared Array Buffers AV1/AVIF and VP8/VP9/WebP (Open Media Codecs) Compression Streams Scoped Custom Element Registry ElementInternals
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Bluetooth NFC Chrome-only non-standards that both Firefox and Safari are against. > Declarative Shadow DOM Actually proposed by Safari, and stalled for multiple reasons. Moreover, at the start of the whole web component brouhaha Safari wanted to have declarative ways of specifying Web Components, but Chrome said "no, we want to move fast and break things" > WebGPU Proposed by Safari --- Can't be bothered to check others, but off the top of my head, but most of other standards that you just dumped without understanding fall under the following categories: - Chrome-only non-standards with multiple issues that have multiple objections from both Safari and Firefox - Originally proposed by Safari - Have specific technical objections from Safari, and specific reasons for not implementing - (very small minority of specs) No idea why they haven't implemented these yet
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mtomweb 4y ago
    Would you point me to Apple's alternative implementation for access bluetooth / nfc? That's right it doesn't exist. Instead they offer for you to install a native app which once granted bluetooth access can continuously scan and connect to any bluetooth device they want. - Install Prompts 7 Years behind. Many thousands of requests. - Notifications 7 years behind. - Fullscreen API 11 years behind. - Badging 5 years behind. - Deep Links 7 years behind. - Screen Orientation Lock 10 years behind. and what's your excuse going to be the myriad of bugs/stability issues?

by isodev 4y ago

lelandfe 4y ago

https://wpt.fyi/ https://wpt.fyi/ I really like Safari but no, they are definitely not "leading the gang" in adopting features.

tonetheman 4y ago

Look at the front page of https://caniuse.com/ https://caniuse.com/ At the bottom right there is a chart and Safari is in 3rd. I built a company based on browser testing and Safari in general was/is always behind. They have hired some good people so maybe that situation will change but in general Safari is the currently the boat anchor of browsers. Hopefully the situation will change over time.

MCArth 4y ago

This just isn't true! There are so many features that have not been supported long after other browsers implemented them (webgl 2 comes to mind, though that is finally available - 4% of global web users still don't have support due to this, though!)

mtomweb 4y ago
Exactly: Install Prompts - 7 Years. Fullscreen API - 11 Years. Push API - 7 Years. Badging - 5 years. Screen Orientation Lock - 11 years. Bluetooth - 5 years.
- frumper 4y ago
  Nope, nope, definitely nope, not critical in the slightest, nope, and sounds like a very niche case that a native app would do just fine with.
  - agust 4y ago
    "A native app would do just fine", why would we want to build a native app using proprietary tech, be forced to go through an app store, risk to be turn down by Apple and be taxed 30% of our revenue otherwise? All this when we can build web apps using open standards, working on all platforms and without being extorted by a giant abusive conglomerate?
    - frumper 4y ago
      You would want to because you want access to Apple's customers. Also, your example doesn't sound like it'd hold up to real world practice. If you're selling someone proprietary tech then your revenue isn't subject to 30% of Apple's fee. Only the software portion done through the app is. You obviously have a motivated buyer at this point if they bought a physical device. You could route them to a website to create an account, sign up for any subscriptions and launch the startup process that eventually has them install your native app. You want what you want, but you describe hyperbole. Plenty of apps have users manage subscriptions on a website, not on native apps.

mtomweb 4y ago

You've got be joking right? ok so lets go through some stats: 1. Safari, performs worst on wpt.fyi by a VERY wide margin 2. In State of CSS last year had the most number of complaints in relation to bugs. 360 related to Safari, compared to 30 for chrome and 10 for firefox. 3. In the MDN developer Survey developers ranked Safari as the second biggest problem after IE. A browser that's no longer supported. 3. Doesn't really support Web Apps, no user findable method of install (install prompts), no push notifications. 4. Huge numbers of bugs (some of which haven't been fixed in over 7 years) 5. and the devtools are still far behind chromes. 6. and missing all of these: Notifications / Push API No AppStore Support App Store Support for Web Apps Fullscreen API Badging Deep Links Screen Orientation Lock Bluetooth NFC Web Share Target Screen Wakelock Keyboard Lock and Keyboard Layout APIs getInstalledRelatedApps() Background Fetch API Background Sync API WebGPU WebXR Offscreen Canvas Declarative Shadow DOM SQL SIMD WASM Threads Shared Array Buffers AV1/AVIF and VP8/VP9/WebP (Open Media Codecs) Compression Streams Scoped Custom Element Registry ElementInternals

dmitriid 4y ago
> Bluetooth NFC Chrome-only non-standards that both Firefox and Safari are against. > Declarative Shadow DOM Actually proposed by Safari, and stalled for multiple reasons. Moreover, at the start of the whole web component brouhaha Safari wanted to have declarative ways of specifying Web Components, but Chrome said "no, we want to move fast and break things" > WebGPU Proposed by Safari --- Can't be bothered to check others, but off the top of my head, but most of other standards that you just dumped without understanding fall under the following categories: - Chrome-only non-standards with multiple issues that have multiple objections from both Safari and Firefox - Originally proposed by Safari - Have specific technical objections from Safari, and specific reasons for not implementing - (very small minority of specs) No idea why they haven't implemented these yet
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mtomweb 4y ago
  Would you point me to Apple's alternative implementation for access bluetooth / nfc? That's right it doesn't exist. Instead they offer for you to install a native app which once granted bluetooth access can continuously scan and connect to any bluetooth device they want. - Install Prompts 7 Years behind. Many thousands of requests. - Notifications 7 years behind. - Fullscreen API 11 years behind. - Badging 5 years behind. - Deep Links 7 years behind. - Screen Orientation Lock 10 years behind. and what's your excuse going to be the myriad of bugs/stability issues?