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Counter point: I have 17 inch biceps with a 145 kg bench press. About 16% fat BUT currently not trying to lose weight. Vegan, too. I just want to stress that b

Counter point: I have 17 inch biceps with a 145 kg bench press. About 16% fat BUT currently not trying to lose weight. Vegan, too. I just want to stress that being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness (let alone just living well.)

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blfr 4y ago
Eating a high-protein diet is the easiest way to stay satiated without overeating. Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. However, nature dominates nurture almost every time. So a good hormonal profile is of course more important than diet. I know guys who eat trash but maintain sub-10% bf physique and deadlift 300 kilos. They do it with some genetic luck and steroids.
- phantompeace 4y ago
  The guys you’re referring to - how much of their “genetic luck” is down to the fact that they’re training constantly, thereby increasing their calorie requirements? You can’t deadlift 300kg without some serious work and dedication, steroids or no steroids, so it makes sense those types of people would be able to scoff down anything for fuel. Being able to deadlift 300kg means they’re also doing some other heavy compounds lifts too which further increases their metabolism and thus, increases the amount of calories they need.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Power lifters don't train constantly. It's nothing like endurance or skill sports where training itself is almost a full-time job. The actual number of hours spent actively lifting is typically pretty low. They spend more time on active recovery and nutrition (and sometimes PEDS).
  - freiherr 4y ago
    Interesting thing is that in my case despite doing over 300kg squat and deadlift in competition prep at over 120kg my caloric zero was about 3500kcal, on 4000kcal I would gain fat too fast. This hasnt changes from pre-carnivore times for me. Steroids free.
- kinghtown 4y ago
  I’m already on a high protein diet. I just happen to be vegan as well. My breakfast smoothie alone was about 50 grams of protein. I had a generous peanut butter sandwich (about 20 grams protein with my fancy bread) about an hour later. The thing is, I’m not comparing myself to Brian Shaw or Larry Wheels or anyone else eating 5,000-10,000 calories a day with steroids.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  > Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. Um, define difficult?
tluyben2 4y ago
Not sure if it's a counter point; people do 'stuff' and attribute 'other stuff that happens' from the 'stuff' they do. I am a vegetarian eating a balanced diet and have no issues bulking up. Just do whatever works and don't bother too many other people with it; keto/meatonly/fatonly (yes, I understand these are different things!) people are usually so 'I have discovered god!' and keep telling people about it who are absolutely not going to do it. I just eat what I like and am happy; no need to tell it to everyone, all the time. I even recognise one of the poster's nicknames here for trying to push some insane (to me; I would say it will be a fluke of nature if this person gets beyond 65 y/o) meat/fat only diets on HN.
- kinghtown 4y ago
  For me, the carnivore diet is obnoxious at best. It’s ethically in the red by a lot let alone being unnecessary to be a manly man or whatever the hell it is these guys think they’re achieving on a red meat only diet. WHO advises less meat if anything. You guys should all be in the range between mediterranean lifestyle to vegan. Eating only meat is nasty.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - eixiepia 4y ago
    Counter point: For me, vegan diet is not only obnoxious, but also dangerous. Years as a vegan wrecked my health and permanently my teeth. Carnivore was the way out of this downward spiral for me.
    - kinghtown 4y ago
      Most likely you have no idea what you’re doing swinging from one fad diet to another.
      - eixiepia 4y ago
        If it makes you feel better you're welcome to believe that, but I'm sorry to inform you that this is not the case. However, my good health after many years on the carnivore diet is enough for me, I don't have the need to convince anyone.
kybernetyk 4y ago
Is Tren vegan? ;)
belter 4y ago
Being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness, but many Vegans show important deficiencies on: - Vitamin B12 - Vitamin D - Zinc Most vegan food products available in supermarkets, if you notice the labels, include B12 and Vitamin D supplements at a minimum. "Top5 Nutrient Deficiencies On A Plant Based Diet": https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/the-top-5-deficiencies-on-a-plant-based-diet/ https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/the-top-5-deficiencie...
- kinghtown 4y ago
  - nxmnxm99 4y ago
    His point is one diet is obviously superior to the other if one requires supplementing to meet basic nutritional requirements There are lots of shitty diets that can work if you supplement
    - kinghtown 4y ago
      Meat eaters are lacking in nutrients as well. B12 and Omega 3, just like many vegans apparently, as well as fibre. Veganism is a great way of life. I’m currently stronger than 99% of the general public. You guys can only say that it’s a personal choice at this point. My point, the parent, is that I hope to spare the pain and agony of some hundreds of animals who could needlessly die due to a few dozen otters on HN thinking a carnivore diet is the trick to finally turn them into savages. It won’t. You would all have the same gains as a vegan. Try it out, call it plant-based if you need to.
      - belter 4y ago
        Many persons are Vegan for several periods of weeks to months at a time, and revert to a carnivore diet by medical necessity. My comment was not against the diet itself, just to point the technical execution behind it. The problem with some approaches to a Vegan diet, is that they bring with them baggage. An immediate moral and ethical judgement, that some would accuse of being a slippery slope of ambiguity. Most ambiguity, comes from the way the causing suffering argument is phrased. Declaring it form a high horse of supposedly moral superiority, while for example ignoring the destruction of wild life that intensive farming brings. Humans with a carnivore diet are not advocating for animal suffering. Vegans advocating a planetary scale plant based diet, if they approach from a moral superiority point, should clarify what level of ALL animal suffering are they willing to tolerate to support their diet. Some Vegans would argue the suffering to wild life, is an indirect cause of pursuing healthier options, and that not all suffering is the same. The same argument could be used by meat eaters, that none advocates for the abuses of the meat industry. Unless of course one would use the more radical argument that animals do not exist to feed humans. But the same could be said of plants. They were here before humans.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

blfr 4y ago

Eating a high-protein diet is the easiest way to stay satiated without overeating. Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. However, nature dominates nurture almost every time. So a good hormonal profile is of course more important than diet. I know guys who eat trash but maintain sub-10% bf physique and deadlift 300 kilos. They do it with some genetic luck and steroids.

phantompeace 4y ago
The guys you’re referring to - how much of their “genetic luck” is down to the fact that they’re training constantly, thereby increasing their calorie requirements? You can’t deadlift 300kg without some serious work and dedication, steroids or no steroids, so it makes sense those types of people would be able to scoff down anything for fuel. Being able to deadlift 300kg means they’re also doing some other heavy compounds lifts too which further increases their metabolism and thus, increases the amount of calories they need.
- nradov 4y ago
  Power lifters don't train constantly. It's nothing like endurance or skill sports where training itself is almost a full-time job. The actual number of hours spent actively lifting is typically pretty low. They spend more time on active recovery and nutrition (and sometimes PEDS).
- freiherr 4y ago
  Interesting thing is that in my case despite doing over 300kg squat and deadlift in competition prep at over 120kg my caloric zero was about 3500kcal, on 4000kcal I would gain fat too fast. This hasnt changes from pre-carnivore times for me. Steroids free.
kinghtown 4y ago
I’m already on a high protein diet. I just happen to be vegan as well. My breakfast smoothie alone was about 50 grams of protein. I had a generous peanut butter sandwich (about 20 grams protein with my fancy bread) about an hour later. The thing is, I’m not comparing myself to Brian Shaw or Larry Wheels or anyone else eating 5,000-10,000 calories a day with steroids.
ravenstine 4y ago
> Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. Um, define difficult?

tluyben2 4y ago

Not sure if it's a counter point; people do 'stuff' and attribute 'other stuff that happens' from the 'stuff' they do. I am a vegetarian eating a balanced diet and have no issues bulking up. Just do whatever works and don't bother too many other people with it; keto/meatonly/fatonly (yes, I understand these are different things!) people are usually so 'I have discovered god!' and keep telling people about it who are absolutely not going to do it. I just eat what I like and am happy; no need to tell it to everyone, all the time. I even recognise one of the poster's nicknames here for trying to push some insane (to me; I would say it will be a fluke of nature if this person gets beyond 65 y/o) meat/fat only diets on HN.

kinghtown 4y ago
For me, the carnivore diet is obnoxious at best. It’s ethically in the red by a lot let alone being unnecessary to be a manly man or whatever the hell it is these guys think they’re achieving on a red meat only diet. WHO advises less meat if anything. You guys should all be in the range between mediterranean lifestyle to vegan. Eating only meat is nasty.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eixiepia 4y ago
  Counter point: For me, vegan diet is not only obnoxious, but also dangerous. Years as a vegan wrecked my health and permanently my teeth. Carnivore was the way out of this downward spiral for me.
  - kinghtown 4y ago
    Most likely you have no idea what you’re doing swinging from one fad diet to another.
    - eixiepia 4y ago
      If it makes you feel better you're welcome to believe that, but I'm sorry to inform you that this is not the case. However, my good health after many years on the carnivore diet is enough for me, I don't have the need to convince anyone.

kybernetyk 4y ago

Is Tren vegan? ;)

belter 4y ago

Being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness, but many Vegans show important deficiencies on: - Vitamin B12 - Vitamin D - Zinc Most vegan food products available in supermarkets, if you notice the labels, include B12 and Vitamin D supplements at a minimum. "Top5 Nutrient Deficiencies On A Plant Based Diet": https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/the-top-5-deficiencies-on-a-plant-based-diet/ https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/the-top-5-deficiencie...

kinghtown 4y ago
- nxmnxm99 4y ago
  His point is one diet is obviously superior to the other if one requires supplementing to meet basic nutritional requirements There are lots of shitty diets that can work if you supplement
  - kinghtown 4y ago
    Meat eaters are lacking in nutrients as well. B12 and Omega 3, just like many vegans apparently, as well as fibre. Veganism is a great way of life. I’m currently stronger than 99% of the general public. You guys can only say that it’s a personal choice at this point. My point, the parent, is that I hope to spare the pain and agony of some hundreds of animals who could needlessly die due to a few dozen otters on HN thinking a carnivore diet is the trick to finally turn them into savages. It won’t. You would all have the same gains as a vegan. Try it out, call it plant-based if you need to.
    - belter 4y ago
      Many persons are Vegan for several periods of weeks to months at a time, and revert to a carnivore diet by medical necessity. My comment was not against the diet itself, just to point the technical execution behind it. The problem with some approaches to a Vegan diet, is that they bring with them baggage. An immediate moral and ethical judgement, that some would accuse of being a slippery slope of ambiguity. Most ambiguity, comes from the way the causing suffering argument is phrased. Declaring it form a high horse of supposedly moral superiority, while for example ignoring the destruction of wild life that intensive farming brings. Humans with a carnivore diet are not advocating for animal suffering. Vegans advocating a planetary scale plant based diet, if they approach from a moral superiority point, should clarify what level of ALL animal suffering are they willing to tolerate to support their diet. Some Vegans would argue the suffering to wild life, is an indirect cause of pursuing healthier options, and that not all suffering is the same. The same argument could be used by meat eaters, that none advocates for the abuses of the meat industry. Unless of course one would use the more radical argument that animals do not exist to feed humans. But the same could be said of plants. They were here before humans.