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>Does this finding hold promise for that ever-elusive diet pill? I wonder what will go wrong this time with side-effects. Maybe overeating rebound after it get

>Does this finding hold promise for that ever-elusive diet pill? I wonder what will go wrong this time with side-effects. Maybe overeating rebound after it gets out of the system. That would resemble natural compensation of calories after activity is finished. From personal experience I recommend saturated fat (mostly from beef tallow) as an anti-hunger molecule. With as little as possible omega-6 in the diet. And carnivore. Works wonders. My satiety base level is now set so that I get down to ~12% bf in a reasonable time when I'm above that. Could also bulk up to a powerlifting competition on this diet no problem when necessary.

ddorian43 4y ago
Yes, just tried bulking on a 6 week program and was very impressed with carnivore.
- a3w 4y ago
  Meat very slightly causes cancer. Saturated fats reduce your life expectancy, too. Not that good advice I guess?
  - blfr 4y ago
    Check the studies you're relying on for this information. Most are confounded by people simply eating fast food.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      And fast food is different because… ?
      - blfr 4y ago
        Lots of crappy carbs and added sugar on the side with generally low quality ingredients compared to what anyone caring about their diet would eat. Most people don't have the dedication of a body builder carefully eating only patties from the burgers. Which would probably work.
  - ddorian43 4y ago
    Feel free to try it and change your life for the better. You can start with keto diet which is less extreme.
    - Judgmentality 4y ago
      My friend's dad was just diagnosed with stage 3 renal failure and his doctor is emphatic his diet is the culprit. He'd been an advocate of the keto diet for years. Biology is complicated and different people will have different results. I'm glad it's working for you but please exercise caution before assuming it will help everyone. You also might want to get your kidneys tested. https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/nephrology/chronic-kidney-disease-ckd/ketogenic-diet-potentially-harmful-especially-in-patients-with-ckd/ https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/nephrology/chr...
      - sph 4y ago
        My grandma lived 95 while smoking a pack a day since her 20s. N=1 anecdotes are not worth the energy discussing them. Her son (my father), lived 55 while smoking a pack a day since his 20s. -- Also, what is keto diet? I've seen keto diets made of mostly meat and organic vegetables, and keto diets made of fat bombs and almond flour pizzas. Keto and low carb these days have stopped meaning anything, often doesn't even mean "healthier".
        Judgmentality 4y ago
        If someone suggests something is a cure all for everyone, and a doctor says that cure all is killing someone, and there's medical research backing up the doctor - I'm going to trust the doctor. My N=1 anecdote is a counterexample that has medical research to back it up. Or are you discrediting the person's anecdote about a carnivorous diet being healthy?
        deleted 4y ago
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      - 4y ago
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  - gadders 4y ago
    Obesity causes cancer as well: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/obesity-weight-and-cancer/does-obesity-cause-cancer https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-canc...
- mikevm 4y ago
  By carnivore do you mean eating only meat? No veggies at all? If so that is an insane diet. Where are you going to get all your micronutrients from?
  - ddorian43 4y ago
    Only read meat, high fat, mostly only ruminant meat (lamb,goat,beef). > Where are you going to get all your micronutrients from? In the meat. You have to look at the bioavailability of stuff from plants and how much they have per-gram and per-calorie. There are books/people/forums to follow if you want to try. Don't try it blindly/stupidly but go to a forum and ask basic questions.
    - mikevm 4y ago
      > In the meat. facepalm Good luck hitting the RDAs for the following using only the meats you described: * Vitamin C * Vitamin E * Vitamin K * Calcium * Magnesium I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. If you're also strength training you also need to go above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins, Calcium, ...) making it even harder. This diet is pure pseudoscience.
      - ddorian43 4y ago
        > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. I eat full lamb but will consider going mostly muscle meat, will have to find some good deal first. > This diet is pure pseudoscience. We've been told that all our lives. It feels that way. I'm sorry. I don't listen to general advice though. Till now it's been going ok. Join https://old.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/ https://old.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/ and give it a try! Who knows, maybe I'm right ;)
      - ravenstine 4y ago
        RDAs are opinions, not science. They are guesses based on averages, which in many cases do not apply at all to any given individual. The only way that RDAs are even remotely useful is if one is eating a standard diet where many vitamins and minerals are of lesser bioavailability as they are in the form of meat. In terms of vitamin C, there's a reason why meat eaters don't get scurvy, which is that meat contains other compounds that make the need for exogenous vitamin C much less necessary. That is precisely why RDAs are mostly nonsense. Absolute values for micronutrients mean very little when you don't account for the food substrate, cofactors, an individual's overall health, what a person weighs, what their body composition is, etc. Somehow, humans (the Homo genus, to be exact), got away without RDAs for millions of years. And they ate lots of meat. > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. No, humans do not have to eat organ meat. There is no evidence for this. Skeletal muscle and fatty tissues, particularly that from large ruminant animals, provide everything that a human body needs to function optimally. > If you're also strength training you also need to go above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins, Calcium, ...) making it even harder. The human body does not contain an RDA meter. As I already discussed, RDA is an opinion that only makes sense when a certain set of vitamins and minerals are viewed in isolation. The RDA and RDI hypotheses fall apart when all the other variables of human diet and health come into play. > This diet is pure pseudoscience. Yeah... I guess stable isotope data is pseudoscience as well, but RDA is rock solid. Right. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13011 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248414000190?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41033-3#ref-CR9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41033-3#ref-CR9
kinghtown 4y ago
Counter point: I have 17 inch biceps with a 145 kg bench press. About 16% fat BUT currently not trying to lose weight. Vegan, too. I just want to stress that being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness (let alone just living well.)
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- blfr 4y ago
  Eating a high-protein diet is the easiest way to stay satiated without overeating. Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. However, nature dominates nurture almost every time. So a good hormonal profile is of course more important than diet. I know guys who eat trash but maintain sub-10% bf physique and deadlift 300 kilos. They do it with some genetic luck and steroids.
  - phantompeace 4y ago
    The guys you’re referring to - how much of their “genetic luck” is down to the fact that they’re training constantly, thereby increasing their calorie requirements? You can’t deadlift 300kg without some serious work and dedication, steroids or no steroids, so it makes sense those types of people would be able to scoff down anything for fuel. Being able to deadlift 300kg means they’re also doing some other heavy compounds lifts too which further increases their metabolism and thus, increases the amount of calories they need.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Power lifters don't train constantly. It's nothing like endurance or skill sports where training itself is almost a full-time job. The actual number of hours spent actively lifting is typically pretty low. They spend more time on active recovery and nutrition (and sometimes PEDS).
    - freiherr 4y ago
      Interesting thing is that in my case despite doing over 300kg squat and deadlift in competition prep at over 120kg my caloric zero was about 3500kcal, on 4000kcal I would gain fat too fast. This hasnt changes from pre-carnivore times for me. Steroids free.
Loic 4y ago
Just eat balanced (omnivore, vegan, vegetarian, all can be balanced and all can be full of junk food) and if you have a smart watch, look at the calories you burnt in the day. Try not to eat more than what you burn. Be sure to have at least something like 30 minutes 2 days out of 3 where you do sport (workout, whatever you like) and really sweat. Your smart watch can help you doing it with gamification/challenges/you name it. It is simple, very simple, the hard part is to just do it and keep doing it.
eixiepia 4y ago
Can confirm that carnivore work wonders. I have been on the diet for 7 years and have never been in better health. But I will say that people should be careful with "extreme" diets as I was vegan for years and this completely wrecked me, including my teeth. I did the radical shift to canivore out of desperation, but that saved my life.

ddorian43 4y ago

Yes, just tried bulking on a 6 week program and was very impressed with carnivore.

a3w 4y ago
Meat very slightly causes cancer. Saturated fats reduce your life expectancy, too. Not that good advice I guess?
- blfr 4y ago
  Check the studies you're relying on for this information. Most are confounded by people simply eating fast food.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    And fast food is different because… ?
    - blfr 4y ago
      Lots of crappy carbs and added sugar on the side with generally low quality ingredients compared to what anyone caring about their diet would eat. Most people don't have the dedication of a body builder carefully eating only patties from the burgers. Which would probably work.
- ddorian43 4y ago
  Feel free to try it and change your life for the better. You can start with keto diet which is less extreme.
  - Judgmentality 4y ago
    My friend's dad was just diagnosed with stage 3 renal failure and his doctor is emphatic his diet is the culprit. He'd been an advocate of the keto diet for years. Biology is complicated and different people will have different results. I'm glad it's working for you but please exercise caution before assuming it will help everyone. You also might want to get your kidneys tested. https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/nephrology/chronic-kidney-disease-ckd/ketogenic-diet-potentially-harmful-especially-in-patients-with-ckd/ https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/nephrology/chr...
    - sph 4y ago
      My grandma lived 95 while smoking a pack a day since her 20s. N=1 anecdotes are not worth the energy discussing them. Her son (my father), lived 55 while smoking a pack a day since his 20s. -- Also, what is keto diet? I've seen keto diets made of mostly meat and organic vegetables, and keto diets made of fat bombs and almond flour pizzas. Keto and low carb these days have stopped meaning anything, often doesn't even mean "healthier".
      - Judgmentality 4y ago
        If someone suggests something is a cure all for everyone, and a doctor says that cure all is killing someone, and there's medical research backing up the doctor - I'm going to trust the doctor. My N=1 anecdote is a counterexample that has medical research to back it up. Or are you discrediting the person's anecdote about a carnivorous diet being healthy?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
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- gadders 4y ago
  Obesity causes cancer as well: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/obesity-weight-and-cancer/does-obesity-cause-cancer https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-canc...
mikevm 4y ago
By carnivore do you mean eating only meat? No veggies at all? If so that is an insane diet. Where are you going to get all your micronutrients from?
- ddorian43 4y ago
  Only read meat, high fat, mostly only ruminant meat (lamb,goat,beef). > Where are you going to get all your micronutrients from? In the meat. You have to look at the bioavailability of stuff from plants and how much they have per-gram and per-calorie. There are books/people/forums to follow if you want to try. Don't try it blindly/stupidly but go to a forum and ask basic questions.
  - mikevm 4y ago
    > In the meat. facepalm Good luck hitting the RDAs for the following using only the meats you described: * Vitamin C * Vitamin E * Vitamin K * Calcium * Magnesium I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. If you're also strength training you also need to go above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins, Calcium, ...) making it even harder. This diet is pure pseudoscience.
    - ddorian43 4y ago
      > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. I eat full lamb but will consider going mostly muscle meat, will have to find some good deal first. > This diet is pure pseudoscience. We've been told that all our lives. It feels that way. I'm sorry. I don't listen to general advice though. Till now it's been going ok. Join https://old.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/ https://old.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/ and give it a try! Who knows, maybe I'm right ;)
    - ravenstine 4y ago
      RDAs are opinions, not science. They are guesses based on averages, which in many cases do not apply at all to any given individual. The only way that RDAs are even remotely useful is if one is eating a standard diet where many vitamins and minerals are of lesser bioavailability as they are in the form of meat. In terms of vitamin C, there's a reason why meat eaters don't get scurvy, which is that meat contains other compounds that make the need for exogenous vitamin C much less necessary. That is precisely why RDAs are mostly nonsense. Absolute values for micronutrients mean very little when you don't account for the food substrate, cofactors, an individual's overall health, what a person weighs, what their body composition is, etc. Somehow, humans (the Homo genus, to be exact), got away without RDAs for millions of years. And they ate lots of meat. > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros. No, humans do not have to eat organ meat. There is no evidence for this. Skeletal muscle and fatty tissues, particularly that from large ruminant animals, provide everything that a human body needs to function optimally. > If you're also strength training you also need to go above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins, Calcium, ...) making it even harder. The human body does not contain an RDA meter. As I already discussed, RDA is an opinion that only makes sense when a certain set of vitamins and minerals are viewed in isolation. The RDA and RDI hypotheses fall apart when all the other variables of human diet and health come into play. > This diet is pure pseudoscience. Yeah... I guess stable isotope data is pseudoscience as well, but RDA is rock solid. Right. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13011 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248414000190?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41033-3#ref-CR9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41033-3#ref-CR9

kinghtown 4y ago

Counter point: I have 17 inch biceps with a 145 kg bench press. About 16% fat BUT currently not trying to lose weight. Vegan, too. I just want to stress that being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness (let alone just living well.)

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blfr 4y ago
Eating a high-protein diet is the easiest way to stay satiated without overeating. Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but fits the bill. However, nature dominates nurture almost every time. So a good hormonal profile is of course more important than diet. I know guys who eat trash but maintain sub-10% bf physique and deadlift 300 kilos. They do it with some genetic luck and steroids.
- phantompeace 4y ago
  The guys you’re referring to - how much of their “genetic luck” is down to the fact that they’re training constantly, thereby increasing their calorie requirements? You can’t deadlift 300kg without some serious work and dedication, steroids or no steroids, so it makes sense those types of people would be able to scoff down anything for fuel. Being able to deadlift 300kg means they’re also doing some other heavy compounds lifts too which further increases their metabolism and thus, increases the amount of calories they need.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Power lifters don't train constantly. It's nothing like endurance or skill sports where training itself is almost a full-time job. The actual number of hours spent actively lifting is typically pretty low. They spend more time on active recovery and nutrition (and sometimes PEDS).
  - freiherr 4y ago
    Interesting thing is that in my case despite doing over 300kg squat and deadlift in competition prep at over 120kg my caloric zero was about 3500kcal, on 4000kcal I would gain fat too fast. This hasnt changes from pre-carnivore times for me. Steroids free.

Loic 4y ago

Just eat balanced (omnivore, vegan, vegetarian, all can be balanced and all can be full of junk food) and if you have a smart watch, look at the calories you burnt in the day. Try not to eat more than what you burn. Be sure to have at least something like 30 minutes 2 days out of 3 where you do sport (workout, whatever you like) and really sweat. Your smart watch can help you doing it with gamification/challenges/you name it. It is simple, very simple, the hard part is to just do it and keep doing it.

eixiepia 4y ago

Can confirm that carnivore work wonders. I have been on the diet for 7 years and have never been in better health. But I will say that people should be careful with "extreme" diets as I was vegan for years and this completely wrecked me, including my teeth. I did the radical shift to canivore out of desperation, but that saved my life.