3 ms·

Presenteeism Wins Out over Productivity

9 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

jleyank 4y ago
Easy. Managers, unfortunately, can't measure productivity nor trust workers. Upper managers want a ROI on their offices/monuments, and they rely on Managers re: productivity measures. Even if they're competent they might/will have bad data. Extroverts figure anybody on their own is like lost - otherwise they'd be amongst people. Pity developers tend to be introverted or introverts that have to concentrate (a lot) at times. Bothered developers tend to go slowly or write lesser code.
ilaksh 4y ago
Thinking about the recent Meta presentation by Zuckerberg on the VR prototypes and other plans groups have for more comfortable goggle-type VR. I think that the concept of "going to the office" or "presenting" is going to evolve to include VR. Upcoming VR devices will have eye tracking and eye contact, facial expression broadcasting and more realism. Which is to say, even if you are working from home, you won't be able to escape from your manager breathing down your neck, if that's what they insist on. I think that eventually being in a virtual environment, or Discord, or anything, lends itself to easily sharing and tracking work product. Or just basically, the manager needs to be able to read git commits, and if he can't figure out if they are doing useful work from that or other outputs or discussions every few days to a week, then maybe they aren't competent.
- Tarsul 4y ago
  Once we're in that future, I'll gladly take gig work over office work. However, as a European I have high hopes that it will take longer to get to that than in the US.
bsder 4y ago
And, again, look at all the pictures. Not an "office" to be found. The debate isn't in person vs not. It's: 1) in person with shittastic open office plan, 2) in person with actual offices, and 3) not in person. Everyone seems to be forgetting that 1 and 2 are NOT equivalent.
tompccs 4y ago
The whole premise of this article rests on the idea that an employee will do exactly the work required of him regardless of his output being visible to his manager. I say to that: bollocks. Outside of the most scrupulous employees or those with the greatest sense of the importance of their work (who tend to be doctors and nurses, hardly the WFH sort), people will slack off if there are no consequences. For essentially artisanal jobs like software engineering, in a small enough team it can be seen and felt if a team member is not pulling his weight. But most jobs aren't software engineering, most employees have an adversarial relationship with their employer, and most people feel entitled to whatever amount of slacking off they can get away with. Everyone has anecdotes of colleagues who turn the practice of slacking into an art form. The idea that it's an irrational "presenteeism" causing managers to want employees back in person is another one of those journalistic luxury beliefs.
- Tarsul 4y ago
  the real question is who is more productive when watched over vs. who is less productive when watched over? I'm certainly in the second category. Depends on a lot of factors, I'd guess. Certainly, most managers won't know which category their workers are in, so why should they decide who's coming into the office and who not? I think the solution lies in trusting the team, so much so that the team says something if one team member is not executing; so that measures can be taken (hopefully measures where everyone benefits; even the lagging team member).

9 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

Easy. Managers, unfortunately, can't measure productivity nor trust workers. Upper managers want a ROI on their offices/monuments, and they rely on Managers re: productivity measures. Even if they're competent they might/will have bad data. Extroverts figure anybody on their own is like lost - otherwise they'd be amongst people. Pity developers tend to be introverted or introverts that have to concentrate (a lot) at times. Bothered developers tend to go slowly or write lesser code.

ilaksh 4y ago

Thinking about the recent Meta presentation by Zuckerberg on the VR prototypes and other plans groups have for more comfortable goggle-type VR. I think that the concept of "going to the office" or "presenting" is going to evolve to include VR. Upcoming VR devices will have eye tracking and eye contact, facial expression broadcasting and more realism. Which is to say, even if you are working from home, you won't be able to escape from your manager breathing down your neck, if that's what they insist on. I think that eventually being in a virtual environment, or Discord, or anything, lends itself to easily sharing and tracking work product. Or just basically, the manager needs to be able to read git commits, and if he can't figure out if they are doing useful work from that or other outputs or discussions every few days to a week, then maybe they aren't competent.

Tarsul 4y ago
Once we're in that future, I'll gladly take gig work over office work. However, as a European I have high hopes that it will take longer to get to that than in the US.

bsder 4y ago

And, again, look at all the pictures. Not an "office" to be found. The debate isn't in person vs not. It's: 1) in person with shittastic open office plan, 2) in person with actual offices, and 3) not in person. Everyone seems to be forgetting that 1 and 2 are NOT equivalent.

tompccs 4y ago

The whole premise of this article rests on the idea that an employee will do exactly the work required of him regardless of his output being visible to his manager. I say to that: bollocks. Outside of the most scrupulous employees or those with the greatest sense of the importance of their work (who tend to be doctors and nurses, hardly the WFH sort), people will slack off if there are no consequences. For essentially artisanal jobs like software engineering, in a small enough team it can be seen and felt if a team member is not pulling his weight. But most jobs aren't software engineering, most employees have an adversarial relationship with their employer, and most people feel entitled to whatever amount of slacking off they can get away with. Everyone has anecdotes of colleagues who turn the practice of slacking into an art form. The idea that it's an irrational "presenteeism" causing managers to want employees back in person is another one of those journalistic luxury beliefs.

Tarsul 4y ago
the real question is who is more productive when watched over vs. who is less productive when watched over? I'm certainly in the second category. Depends on a lot of factors, I'd guess. Certainly, most managers won't know which category their workers are in, so why should they decide who's coming into the office and who not? I think the solution lies in trusting the team, so much so that the team says something if one team member is not executing; so that measures can be taken (hopefully measures where everyone benefits; even the lagging team member).