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Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

211 points by Cenk 4y ago

yuppie_scum 4y ago
- oneplane 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nashashmi 4y ago
Fair question: Are dedicated bike lanes near pedestrian friendly paths a safe transportation environment? I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.
- croniev 4y ago
  > I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars. How do you get this idea? In a collision with a pedestrian, the person on the scooter/bike will come to harm more likely than the pedestrian. But such collisions do not happen too often, and when they do, they don't go as bad as car crashes. I live in a German City (Darmstadt) where next to the big roads as well as in the city centre bikes and pedestrians share a lot of place, and it is not a big problem that people keep getting hurt because of this. Most accidents in these places are because bikers had accidents due to bad roads, hidden stairs, car drivers, bad bike lanes, etc. If you ask me, making a city nore bike friendly, also close to pedestrian areas, decreases the chances of bikers getting hurt.
  - nashashmi 4y ago
    Two reasons why: A car has better ability to brake suddenly then scooters and bikes where the rider can get thrown forward. I can hear a car coming. In the city they don't drive fast where as bikes ignore lots of rules and travel very quickly. Ask yourself this: is a motorbike hitting a pedestrian more dangerous or a car hitting a pedestrian, where are both are driving at city speeds with lots of braking in short distances.
- sixstringtheory 4y ago
  I'm going to assume it's safer. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone riding a bike or scooter killing a pedestrian. Oh wait, I've never heard of that. But I have heard of people driving cars that have killed: - other people driving cars - cyclists - pedestrians - themselves Why do you feel that bikes and scooters are more dangerous than cars?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - monkey_monkey 4y ago
    > I can't remember the last time I heard about someone riding a bike or scooter killing a pedestrian. It does happen, but it's very very rare. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-58009784 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-58009784
- blakesterz 4y ago
  "The Answer May Surprise You!" Or maybe not surprising at all? I guess it doesn't happen very often, but according to this from last year, it's also not been studied. https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00497-z https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00... Near accidents and collisions between pedestrians and cyclists An online survey was directed to inhabitants of Finnish cities ... The main results show that near accidents are far more common... Only 16 survey respondents had been involved in a collision during the 3-year period, whereas roughly a third had experienced at least one near accident.
- chapium 4y ago
  That feeling seems pretty absurd. Cars get dedicated infrastructure and kids are never allowed out on their own for fear of being run over. Cars are more massive than bikes and scooters and kill almost everyone they hit at a minimum of 40mph. Bikes max out at 20mph with the exception for a racing cyclist. Also by weight they are far smaller. Car produced noise, micro plastics, and exhaust also have detrimental effects on the environment we live in. The list goes on an on. Bikes and scooters whizzing by pedestrians is annoying, but probably not the huge danger that is compared to a car.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Like everything, it depends on the rider. The majority of the bike paths in my city are shared with pedestrians. These are the non-street lanes/sidewalks. These are the paths/trails type. There are riders that come through with an entitled sense that these are bike paths and pedestrians should yield. They typically wear spandex and wrap around shades and ride in a tucked position and ride like they are going to get a new yellow piece of spandex at the end of the ride. They are the worst. There are also places on these paths/trails where they have separated a secondary path that is pedestrian only. The shared path in these places also have an enforced 10mph speed limit for the bikes. Much less spandex types on this section except for those trying to get to the other paths. Electric scooters pretty much no longer exist in my town because A) the companies sucked at operations and B) humans sucked at being decent
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    - dylan604 4y ago
      Holy cow there's so much going on here that's just made up in your mind. Perhaps yet another entitled bicyclist offering up why they fit the stereotype? You sound like the person that yells at me for stopping at a stop sign and causes them to slow down to a stop as well. Sorry, but rules are rules especially when the stop sign is only there for the bike/pedestrian path. A pedestrian walking in the same direction you are traveling has no idea you are coming as they tend to not have eyes in the back of their head. If they do something that surprises you, then you have failed to anticipate properly. It happens. Riding at 15+mph on a congested mixed use path is just inconsiderate. It is not a dedicated bike path pedestrians are encroaching. It's mixed used. Be considerate. Yes, it is a pain to slow down, but dems da brakes on choosing to use a mixed used path. Just do it. If you want to travel at higher speeds, use appropriate lanes for that.
- Lionga 4y ago
  A 100KG vehicle going maybe 15 to 25KM/h being more dangerous than a 1000 KG 40 to 70 KM/h going vehicle? Seems practically impossible to me
  - kfarr 4y ago
    Agree with your analysis, however I'm not sure facts are helpful for this person when the starting point is feelings. > I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.
- nashashmi 4y ago
  For those wondering, I stepped into a bike path where an electric scooter at speed ran into me. I got thrown back a couple of feet onto the ground and it hurt. Had the scooter braked, he would have been thrown forward into me.
aBioGuy 4y ago
If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.
- thedevelopnik 4y ago
  Yeah Denver turned one of the residential roads in my neighborhood into an official bike road two years ago. They replaced stop signs with roundabouts, put up tons of signage, and where there are lights at major crossings they put sensors that are triggered by bikes. Even though it’s still shared with cars, it’s so much more pleasant and safe because they are more aware and polite. Went from biking being just a thing I do to get around to taking my son to and from school on his bike every day.
  - postscapes1 4y ago
    Where in Denver is this? Am local here and most of the city is dismal for biking safely with kids
    - mediocregopher 4y ago
      They did this in a few places in caphill during covid, 16th and 11th being big examples. The cars have since been allowed back on those roads, though. Someone went tearing down 11th in their jeep at easily 50mph the other day, made me really really miss those days.
  - aeolis_mons 4y ago
    Are you talking about 16th? Moving from NYC, I appreciated the island of sanity that street provides in Denver’s car-dominated cityscape.
    - belligeront 4y ago
      If so, I'm sad to say that the city recently removed the traffic calming on 16th ave https://denverite.com/2022/06/09/denver-installed-traffic-calming-infrastructure-that-stopped-wrecks-on-16th-ave-now-its-gone/ https://denverite.com/2022/06/09/denver-installed-traffic-ca...
boringg 4y ago
Easy equation - make safe biking in the city and people will use it instead of driving if weather permits. It's such an easy equation to improve the quality of a city.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  if weather permits Reminds me of an old cycling adage (possibly predates modern cycling, not sure): There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. I hate to come across as a Nordic fetishist, but there are several cold northern cities known for their year-round cycling. Bike paths are plowed and/or heated. And people just layer up. Oulu, Finland comes to mind - paths are designed to drain well so sheets of ice don't form, plows are paid bonuses for clearing snow in a timely manner, etc. Winter ridership numbers in Oulu would put most/all American cities' summer numbers to shame.
  - loeg 4y ago
    Poor weather is also hard on the drivetrain. It’s not just a matter of rider discomfort — riding in the wet is also just more expensive and more time-consuming, mile for mile. (I ride a few thousand miles per year, but mostly not in the rain and never in the snow.)
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      The wear issue is real, but for a commuter bike, I'm not sure it's that big a deal. Wipe down and relube the chain every few weeks and the drivetrain will still last thousands of miles or more. Especially if it's a less cutting edge 8/9 speed system, which tend to be way less finicky to wear and tuning than the latest 12 speed stuff (which is awesome, but needs a lot more maintenance). Bearings these days are pretty well sealed and short of submerging the bike, not really a wear item for most users.
    - jupp0r 4y ago
      What do you do instead of riding when it’s wet or it snows? I bet it’s also harder on their drivetrains and biking is still cheaper. Spiked tires work really well in winter by the way.
vangelis 4y ago
It sounds like Minneapolis is doing great things.
pwenzel 4y ago
Minneapolis resident here. Biking is pretty serious in our city, even in the winter. Many of the bike lanes and paths are plowed with the same priority as car traffic. We also have the Grand Rounds, which is almost 80 miles of paths that circle the lakes in Minneapolis and further into St. Paul. It's pretty amazing.
- onychomys 4y ago
  The day after the Metrodome collapsed, I was able to bike to work on the greenway even though every road in town was out of commission. It was plowed with a higher priority than anywhere else!
- WkndTriathlete 4y ago
  Additionally, a lot of the county highways around Minneapolis have car-width shoulders. It's not all of them, but it's enough to ride 60-80-100 miles pretty easily without having to worry too much about getting picked off by a vehicle straying over the right lane line a little. Fat bike in the winter; road bike in the summer; fat bike/mountain bike on lots of mountain bike trails in the metro and outstate all year. It's pretty great.
TimPC 4y ago
69% doesn’t seem like the kinds of gains you’d hope for. If you’re going from unsafe infrastructure to protected bike paths I’d want to see a tripling of ridership.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  Exactly. Before it must have been close to zero so we would expect a huge increase. Seems underwhelming
  - anamexis 4y ago
    It was not close to zero before 2007. For quite a long time, Minneapolis has a solid set of bike paths and a good bicycle culture to accompany it - all along the Mississippi river, around the numerous lakes in the city, and also the Midtown Greenway, an off-grade rail trail that runs all the way from the river to the lakes, which opened in 2000. In addition to several other bicycle commuter paths that predate this change. These new bike lanes were the city doubling down on being a bicycle-friendly city.
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    I didn't see any mention of starting numbers, at least not in the summary/abstract. I believe Minneapolis has been bike-friendly for quite some time, so the starting point was probably not zero.
- rocketbop 4y ago
  Without knowing the initial number of regular users and the initial number of potential users the percentage doesn't tell you much, not sure what is special about a 200% increase in isolation.
dhr 4y ago
I recently moved to the twin cities. The bike paths are absolutely amazing, and given that the whole state is pretty flat, it's not hard to get around the city for work or for fun. Bike paths are plowed in winter, but biking in -10C weather doesn't sound pleasant. I haven't tried winter biking yet, and honestly, I'm a bit scared to.
- dylan604 4y ago
  I haven't done -10C, but I've done 20F temps. With the proper layers it's not the worst. I find it better than 104F that I'm currently enduring. In cold, it is not uncommon for people to come inside and remove layers. In heat, it's just gross coming inside and sweating like you just climbed out of a pool.
- bombcar 4y ago
  It's surprisingly not bad - you don't even need the snow tires you see if the paths are plowed. Try it as it keeps getting colder, wear layers, and see how it goes. You may find that you don't need as much clothes as you thought you did.
  - hyperbovine 4y ago
    https://barmitts.com/ https://barmitts.com/ I cannot emphasize enough how much less miserable these made my winter commute.
- dominotw 4y ago
  main thing is to invest in clothing that can expel sweat out from your clothing. Getting soaked in sweat is going to make you miserable. Start out with less layers than what you expect and shed layers ( into your backpack) as you are getting warmer. Also invest in mid to fat tires depending on the snow condition. Don't use road bike. wear high visibility clothing because of reduced visibility in winter. don't pivot around obstacles (snow covered potholes) suddenly, try to go over them or safely pivot by looking behind you.
- michael1999 4y ago
  Just ride later into the season each year, and start earlier each spring, and you'll figure it out.
zahma 4y ago
Not really surprised. The foundation was already there. Maybe 15-20 years ago Minneapolis started to build bike lanes along old railways and trolly lines. Some of the paths spanned the city and became thoroughfares totally isolated from traffic. The city had a good thing and kept at it. Good for them. Worth mentioning is that the city has grown in population. That was designed by previous mayoral campaigns to bring in industry. Lots of suburban folks also started moving back into the city too in the 2010s, so demographically the city was ripe to see more cycling. There’s also just a better culture for exercise and outdoor activity in Minneapolis. It used to be one of the fittest cities. I’m not sure this could work everywhere. Minneapolis has different planning than most cities I’ve seen. There’s a lot of residential space (that’s now being re-zoned), which means more room to build on and options in case bike paths reroute traffic. The streets are generally larger and there are lots of parallel avenues and boulevards that facilitate partitioning of cyclists and cars. Personally, I find this to be ideal for commuting, and Minneapolis began to experiment with closing streets to cyclists a long time ago. I’ll stop myself from ranting about the budget for interstates and road maintenance compared to the cost of 76mi bike lanes though.
dominotw 4y ago
> Compared to locations with no facility, sites with protected facilities had 113 more cyclists during the evening peak 2-hour count period (95% CI 16.19, 209.99; p = 0.02) and a greater rate of increase in cyclist counts over time. paper seems to be behind a wall. Hard to see what the actual number of cyclists this 69% represents.
- nkurz 4y ago
  https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf The paper seems to have the information you are looking for. If I'm reading it right, the numeric increase was from an average of 138 bicycles per site to 211 per site, measured over two hour periods in September.
simlevesque 4y ago
Build it and they will come.
joarv0249nw 4y ago
worldmerge 4y ago
I just visited Minneapolis for EYEO Festival. I was amazed at how good cycling was there. I now can't see my hometown the same and have started considering Minneapolis to move to. Check out PeopleForBikes' city ratings.
- yboris 4y ago
  Same here - just came back from EYEO Festival (which was amazing!) and was impressed with the bike-friendliness of the city. I drove around to explore the city by car and there were bike lanes in most places I drove.
taeric 4y ago
I'm assuming that the different increases are good? Certainly beats drops, but I always get suspicious when increases are couched in percentages. :(
whateveracct 4y ago
- threevox 4y ago
  Only on HN do you only get like 2 "nice" comments smh
  - oneplane 4y ago
    There are more, but they get flagged because it's not really on-topic etc.
mablehealth 4y ago
Greenville, SC is similar. We have 27 miles of bike trails and it's always popular for work commutes or trips to the town north of us. Could be a great green initiative for numerous cities.
donatj 4y ago
Minneapolis resident here. Unlike the other Minneapolis resident here, I feel like I see most of the bike lanes entirely disused. A project in my neighborhood turned a major thoroughfare into a one way with a separated bike lane, and I've seen maybe 40 people use it since it's completion a few years ago. I'm curious what a 69% increase looks like in real numbers - a 20% increase on next to nothing is still next to nothing. In my honest opinion Minneapolis is 75% of the year too hot or too cold for all but the most keen bikers.
- nightski 4y ago
  It's been shown that temperature doesn't necessarily have a correlation with biking activity. It has a lot more to do with infrastructure [1]. I know I live in the tri-state area (MN,ND,SD) and bike year round. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
  - donatj 4y ago
    I mean I can say without a doubt that I'm not personally going to cycle when it's above 85 or below 40. It's not a pleasant experience.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  > A project in my neighborhood turned a major thoroughfare into a one way with a separated bike lane, and I've seen maybe 40 people use it since it's completion a few years ago. How many cyclists you've personally witnessed using the lane is irrelevant. Look up the stats from a bike count. > In my honest opinion Minneapolis is 75% of the year too hot or too cold for all but the most keen bikers. Just goes to show the value of an opinion: 43% of Minneapolis bicyclists ride year-round: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36685502.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36685502.pdf Also, a few years ago your city had the third highest percentage of bicycle commuters in the country: https://www.startribune.com/bicycle-commuting-at-highest-rate-ever-in-minneapolis-and-st-paul/393618991/ https://www.startribune.com/bicycle-commuting-at-highest-rat...
  - 4y ago
IYasha 4y ago
#bike4life :)
formerkrogemp 4y ago
I too miss all of the cycling I did in college. Unfortunately where I live now I'd just be run over if I were to cycle everywhere now. The costs of rural living I guess.
badRNG 4y ago
bombcar 4y ago
Note that the improvement was on protected bike lanes, which is the key. A dedicated bike path (even if shared with pedestrians) is the kind of thing that gets people who don't ride to try riding. Painting some lines on the road can help once people are on the bike - we need more dedicated bike lanes and they should be designed to "shortcut" in ways that roads do not. Even things like "mostly" closing an alley to through car traffic and making it a bike "road" can work - people won't cut through it if cars are blocked from getting to the other end, but they can still use it to access back alley stuff if necessary.
- toyg 4y ago
  > Painting some lines on the road can help once people are on the bike Nah, it really doesn't. It just creates aggravation for cars and bikes alike, as both parties are stressed out about small spaces and eventually who-went-over-the-line. The only place it helps is at intersections, to favour filtering; whether that's a good thing per se, I'll leave for others to argue. This is one of those areas where politicians' default modes ("compromise" and "progressive improvement") just don't work. On busy roads, you either build wholly-separated spaces for bicycles and motor vehicles, or you might as well not bother. On tight streets, you close the street to motors or you might as well not bother. Painting lines is only useful to assuage somebody's conscience or tick some abstract box, not to actual road users. And I say that as a motorbike owner.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The places I've seen where line painting works is where it replaced on-street parking; a bike lane painted on a road that is 10-12 feet wide works well, for some value of well. The thin bike lanes added to roads are a joke most of the time.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      My city converted a lot of 4-lane roads to 2 traffic lanes, a centre-turn lane, and 2 wide bike lanes. It's great, cheap, and it really doesn't affect car traffic at all.
astuyvenberg 4y ago
After spending a decade living and biking around Minneapolis, I recently moved to Boston. The comparison of bicycle infrastructure (and number of people cycling) is stark. Given how bad the vehicle traffic is in Boston, I expected lots of bike commuters. But there's no cohesive bicycle infrastructure here. Protected lanes barely exist, and even when they do, they suddenly end - leaving you on the side of a busy road. Maybe one day Boston can catch up.
- ocb 4y ago
  It's a case of the relatively spread out development pattern and associated wide rights of way being advantageous. Minneapolis can tack on fairly substantial bike infrastructure without totally screwing over cars, which would be just as politically difficult in Minneapolis as any other American city. The Grand Rounds help a lot too. It's a great basis to have inherited from the past.
- gen220 4y ago
  Not a Boston resident, but have some friends up there who say that there are great bike paths for urban ingress/egress, but not particularly good for intra-urban travel. Does that match your experience?
  - astuyvenberg 4y ago
    I've put on about 200 miles since moving to Boston, and that observation does not align with my experience at all. So far I've ridden one very good path connecting a few suburbs to Boston (Minuteman Bike Trail, a rails to trails path). There are other paths, but they're combined with running/walking trails and generally not conducive to bicycle travel. The bike lanes of nearby Somerville and Cambridge are okay, but still lacking in comparison with Minneapolis.
    - gen220 4y ago
      Gotcha, that's disappointing. I think my friends were riding along the Charles River, for what it's worth. They're more occasional bike commuters (once or twice per week) than a real serious bunch, and I don't know their start/end points. Rail-to-trail appears to be how most longish (10 mile +) bike paths come into existence in the northeast, from my observations. There's a lot less "free space" to work with than other parts of the country, since the land is so developed / dominated by automobiles.
nic_wilson 4y ago
I’ve been a bike commuter in Minneapolis for almost two decades at this point. It’s much better than it was. In the early 2000s I’d say most cars were not used to or expecting to share the streets with other forms of transportation. Back then it was not uncommon to have motorists hurl insults or trash at you from their window. Today it’s not that difficult to route your commute to most places entirely on bike specific infrastructure. On the other hand, over the last five years and especially since the pandemic I’ve noticed a huge increase in distracted drivers who are driving dangerously and unpredictably. All this is to say, a lot of people have done a lot of hard work which has made this a better place to live and bike in, but there is still a long way to go.
SeanLuke 4y ago
This was a case study with no control group. Case studies are, IMHO, close to useless. Having read the study, I'm not impressed. No attempt was made to compare Minneapolis with peer cities as controls, that is, ones which did not increase bike infrastructure. A limited model was attempted regarding climate impacts, but beyond this little was done to control for external factors. Thus we have no idea if the change in bike usage was due to the bike lanes or if it was due to some other factor, such as societal, environmental, or other changes in Minnesota, or the US, which increased ridership over the 7-year inclusive (!!!) time period of the study. Additionally, this study was essentially a before-and-after for the US's $25 million Nonmotorized Transportation Pilot Program (NTPP). The study is based on data gathered by parties highly invested in the program's success, such as Transit for Livable Communities (a nonprofit paid by Minnesota to manage the program), rather than disinterested parties. Do I want to see cycling successful? You bet I do. Does this paper tell us anything much? No, it does not.
- alangibson 4y ago
  You're right in your criticism of the study. Luckily the Netherlands has already proven that for bike infrastructure, if you build it they will come.
  - Paianni 4y ago
    According to Figure 6 from the study linked below, the trend in cycling levels in the Netherlands was essentially flat from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s. I recall (but cannot find) a source with statistics that suggest a minor increase since then, but much of the current infrastructure was in place 15 years ago. http://web.archive.org/web/20150211090849/http://www.policy.rutgers.edu/faculty/pucher/Irresistible.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20150211090849/http://www.policy....
    - diordiderot 4y ago
      They built their cycle infrastructure through the 60s and 70s tho so that would make sense
Cenk 4y ago
Direct link to PDF: https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf
ordiel 4y ago
And how much of the general population does that total of people cycling is? Like 0.05% of the population? Cycling is nice healthy and eco-friendly yet being honest they dont trully serve a metropolitan area, more bus routes and comunal tranportation methods is what is trully needed on an urban area, Probably there were only 3 people using bikes and now there are 5, that is a HUGE percental increase but not quite significant as a whole
- etskinner 4y ago
  Anecdotal, but: Yesterday I rode on the Midtown Greenway, chain of lakes paths, Mississippi River Trail, and Minnehaha Creek trail in Minneapolis. They each serve as a big artery to access various semi-urban parts of the city. You'd be surprised how many people are out biking. Each of those trails have a road that runs parallel to them, and there are consistently more people on the trail than on the road. Meanwhile, the trails take up half the space of the road, and spacing between bikes can be much tighter. Each of those bike trails also has a nice pedestrian path running parallel. I'd estimate the portion of the nearby population utilizing either the bike or pedestrian trails is more like 20-30% I agree that improving bus infrastructure would be a huge help, but that's not mutually exclusive to improving bike infrastructure. If you haven't experienced biking in Minneapolis, please visit some time! Try our bike share bikes, and the trails above, and see for yourself.
swader999 4y ago
One life hack I'm going to encourage my kids to do is try to live within walking distance of work/school/grocery store to minimize dependancy on a car.
n4jm4 4y ago
I welcome biking. Sadly, the bike lane added to my home street is never used for biking.
tomc1985 4y ago
Meanwhile San Diego is adding bike lanes right and left and people are constantly bitching about them.
- antihero 4y ago
  It's because driving seems to lead many to a special kind of individualistic entitlement.
- NoSorryCannot 4y ago
  There are tatters of bike lanes which makes it hard to assemble a route without going through very uncomfortable traffic situations. Drivers are really, uh, spirited and unpredictable, as well. So they're not well-used yet, which some are taking as a signal that we should foreclose on the entire idea before it even truly gets started. San Diego needs to reconsider the design of virtually all of its surface roads. They're designed for 45mph traffic but the signs ask politely, maybe 25mph instead? Which everyone ignores.
jmyeet 4y ago
People not familiar with the US may not realize just how hostile US cities are to cyclists (and pedestrians). Some examples: 1. Turning right at red lights. Legal in most of the US. This is a huge safety issue for pedestrians and cyclists; 2. Many streets don't even have widewalks; 3. Many major roads don't even have any form of pedestrian crossings. For example, I had Google Maps tell me to just run across an 8 lane highway (at least there was somewhere safe to stand in the middle) where the speed limit was 45mph. Why? There was absolutely no alternative. In comparison, many freeways or highways in other countries will regularly have dedicated pedestrian crossing bridges. 4. In cities with a dedicated cycling lane in many US cities it gets used as extra parking, forcing cyclists out onto the road. Some I have sympathy for (eg delivery drivers) but many other people just don't give a shit they're blocking a lane of traffic and creating a safety issue. 5. Many Americans never walk anywhere so are an annoyance (if not an outright safety hazard) on any space shared with cyclists. I routinely see runners refuse to get out of the way in a dedicated cycle path. Many are oblivious and will just walk onto a cycle path without looking. I've had many near-misses this way. So there are a lot of things you can do to improve this situation, most of which doesn't take exttra room. For example: 1. Netherlands style intersections designed to improve cyclist safety [1]; 2. Suburbia is dominated by cul-de-sacs to avoid car through traffic. These back streets should have dedicated cycle paths (to avoid cycling on highways) combined with car-free connections to allow through-traffic and safe crossings o fhighways with lights if necessary; 3. Instead of road->cycle lane->parked cars create separation with road->parking->cycle path where the cycle path has a physical barrier to avoid people using it as parking; 4. Have islands separating traffic on roads. In addition to making driving safer, this island can make cycling safer as you can half-cross the road and then cross the rest when it's clear without impeding traffic or risking being hit; 5. Splitting straight and turn right lanes. This will create another island for safety and less guessing on what motorists will do. I guess I could summarize this as "just do what Amsterdam does". [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA
- brewdad 4y ago
  > 3. Instead of road->cycle lane->parked cars create separation with road->parking->cycle path where the cycle path has a physical barrier to avoid people using it as parking; We have setup #3, minus the physical barrier, on a few roads in my town. I can say as a driver it can be quite difficult to see cyclists when it comes time to make a right turn at an intersection or driveway. Additionally, dooring may be more likely on those roads since passengers aren't used to looking for cyclists on the curb side of the car.
jvanderbot 4y ago
Concur. I lived in minneapolis for a long time, and biked almost 100% (except winter). I have never felt more un-safe than when I tried to live this lifestyle in LA. In Minneapolis, you could ride along bike-specific greenways and literally stop at bike-only pubs, coffee shops, etc. It was quite accommodating. I'm sure much of that has changed with recent events, but I'm moving back and am cautiously optimistic.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Minneapolis has the advantage of some relatively major rivers, which provide convenient areas to run bike paths along. It works decently well.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    I want to call out their conversion of old railways to "greenways" though. Rail lines are straight, off the main roads, have their own bridges, and usually run into the old warehouse areas that are actually the new build-up areas with all the cool bars, student housing, etc. Really smart use of existing infra.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Rails to trails is being done in multiple areas and is a great way to reuse right-of-ways (sometimes the railroad still owns them and has the right to redevelop them in the future!) that already exist, and you can even add trails next to active lines sometimes (especially since many "active" lines are one train a day or less). https://www.railstotrails.org https://www.railstotrails.org
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  > and biked almost 100% (except winter) So like 50%?
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    You know, late Nov to Apr, is 50% of the year, so yeah. I usually biked starting in March.
stevenjgarner 4y ago
For those interested in outlying examples in the extreme, the 8-day Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa known as RAGBRAI takes more than 15,000 riders [1] on a different route across Iowa every year with different participating overnight communities selected each year. It is the "largest bike-touring event in the world" [2] "The University of Northern Iowa Sustainable Tourism and Environment Program conducted a (2008) study of RAGBRAI's economic impact on the state, and found the event generated nearly $25 million in direct spending. For overnight stops like Coralville and the points in between, that could mean more than $3 million a day in tourism spending." [3] [1] https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/living-well/ragbrai/2021/07/25/ragbrai-2021-departs-le-mars-more-than-15-000-riders-route/8086118002/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/living-well/rag... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGBRAI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGBRAI [3] https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/ragbrai-local-economy-millions-dollars/29940147/ https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/ra...
alexccccc 4y ago
YES. we need more bikes.

211 points by Cenk 4y ago

yuppie_scum 4y ago

oneplane 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nashashmi 4y ago

Fair question: Are dedicated bike lanes near pedestrian friendly paths a safe transportation environment? I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.

croniev 4y ago
> I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars. How do you get this idea? In a collision with a pedestrian, the person on the scooter/bike will come to harm more likely than the pedestrian. But such collisions do not happen too often, and when they do, they don't go as bad as car crashes. I live in a German City (Darmstadt) where next to the big roads as well as in the city centre bikes and pedestrians share a lot of place, and it is not a big problem that people keep getting hurt because of this. Most accidents in these places are because bikers had accidents due to bad roads, hidden stairs, car drivers, bad bike lanes, etc. If you ask me, making a city nore bike friendly, also close to pedestrian areas, decreases the chances of bikers getting hurt.
- nashashmi 4y ago
  Two reasons why: A car has better ability to brake suddenly then scooters and bikes where the rider can get thrown forward. I can hear a car coming. In the city they don't drive fast where as bikes ignore lots of rules and travel very quickly. Ask yourself this: is a motorbike hitting a pedestrian more dangerous or a car hitting a pedestrian, where are both are driving at city speeds with lots of braking in short distances.
sixstringtheory 4y ago
I'm going to assume it's safer. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone riding a bike or scooter killing a pedestrian. Oh wait, I've never heard of that. But I have heard of people driving cars that have killed: - other people driving cars - cyclists - pedestrians - themselves Why do you feel that bikes and scooters are more dangerous than cars?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- monkey_monkey 4y ago
  > I can't remember the last time I heard about someone riding a bike or scooter killing a pedestrian. It does happen, but it's very very rare. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-58009784 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-58009784
blakesterz 4y ago
"The Answer May Surprise You!" Or maybe not surprising at all? I guess it doesn't happen very often, but according to this from last year, it's also not been studied. https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00497-z https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00... Near accidents and collisions between pedestrians and cyclists An online survey was directed to inhabitants of Finnish cities ... The main results show that near accidents are far more common... Only 16 survey respondents had been involved in a collision during the 3-year period, whereas roughly a third had experienced at least one near accident.
chapium 4y ago
That feeling seems pretty absurd. Cars get dedicated infrastructure and kids are never allowed out on their own for fear of being run over. Cars are more massive than bikes and scooters and kill almost everyone they hit at a minimum of 40mph. Bikes max out at 20mph with the exception for a racing cyclist. Also by weight they are far smaller. Car produced noise, micro plastics, and exhaust also have detrimental effects on the environment we live in. The list goes on an on. Bikes and scooters whizzing by pedestrians is annoying, but probably not the huge danger that is compared to a car.
dylan604 4y ago
Like everything, it depends on the rider. The majority of the bike paths in my city are shared with pedestrians. These are the non-street lanes/sidewalks. These are the paths/trails type. There are riders that come through with an entitled sense that these are bike paths and pedestrians should yield. They typically wear spandex and wrap around shades and ride in a tucked position and ride like they are going to get a new yellow piece of spandex at the end of the ride. They are the worst. There are also places on these paths/trails where they have separated a secondary path that is pedestrian only. The shared path in these places also have an enforced 10mph speed limit for the bikes. Much less spandex types on this section except for those trying to get to the other paths. Electric scooters pretty much no longer exist in my town because A) the companies sucked at operations and B) humans sucked at being decent
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Holy cow there's so much going on here that's just made up in your mind. Perhaps yet another entitled bicyclist offering up why they fit the stereotype? You sound like the person that yells at me for stopping at a stop sign and causes them to slow down to a stop as well. Sorry, but rules are rules especially when the stop sign is only there for the bike/pedestrian path. A pedestrian walking in the same direction you are traveling has no idea you are coming as they tend to not have eyes in the back of their head. If they do something that surprises you, then you have failed to anticipate properly. It happens. Riding at 15+mph on a congested mixed use path is just inconsiderate. It is not a dedicated bike path pedestrians are encroaching. It's mixed used. Be considerate. Yes, it is a pain to slow down, but dems da brakes on choosing to use a mixed used path. Just do it. If you want to travel at higher speeds, use appropriate lanes for that.
Lionga 4y ago
A 100KG vehicle going maybe 15 to 25KM/h being more dangerous than a 1000 KG 40 to 70 KM/h going vehicle? Seems practically impossible to me
- kfarr 4y ago
  Agree with your analysis, however I'm not sure facts are helpful for this person when the starting point is feelings. > I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.
nashashmi 4y ago
For those wondering, I stepped into a bike path where an electric scooter at speed ran into me. I got thrown back a couple of feet onto the ground and it hurt. Had the scooter braked, he would have been thrown forward into me.

aBioGuy 4y ago

If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.

thedevelopnik 4y ago
Yeah Denver turned one of the residential roads in my neighborhood into an official bike road two years ago. They replaced stop signs with roundabouts, put up tons of signage, and where there are lights at major crossings they put sensors that are triggered by bikes. Even though it’s still shared with cars, it’s so much more pleasant and safe because they are more aware and polite. Went from biking being just a thing I do to get around to taking my son to and from school on his bike every day.
- postscapes1 4y ago
  Where in Denver is this? Am local here and most of the city is dismal for biking safely with kids
  - mediocregopher 4y ago
    They did this in a few places in caphill during covid, 16th and 11th being big examples. The cars have since been allowed back on those roads, though. Someone went tearing down 11th in their jeep at easily 50mph the other day, made me really really miss those days.
- aeolis_mons 4y ago
  Are you talking about 16th? Moving from NYC, I appreciated the island of sanity that street provides in Denver’s car-dominated cityscape.
  - belligeront 4y ago
    If so, I'm sad to say that the city recently removed the traffic calming on 16th ave https://denverite.com/2022/06/09/denver-installed-traffic-calming-infrastructure-that-stopped-wrecks-on-16th-ave-now-its-gone/ https://denverite.com/2022/06/09/denver-installed-traffic-ca...

boringg 4y ago

Easy equation - make safe biking in the city and people will use it instead of driving if weather permits. It's such an easy equation to improve the quality of a city.

alistairSH 4y ago
if weather permits Reminds me of an old cycling adage (possibly predates modern cycling, not sure): There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. I hate to come across as a Nordic fetishist, but there are several cold northern cities known for their year-round cycling. Bike paths are plowed and/or heated. And people just layer up. Oulu, Finland comes to mind - paths are designed to drain well so sheets of ice don't form, plows are paid bonuses for clearing snow in a timely manner, etc. Winter ridership numbers in Oulu would put most/all American cities' summer numbers to shame.
- loeg 4y ago
  Poor weather is also hard on the drivetrain. It’s not just a matter of rider discomfort — riding in the wet is also just more expensive and more time-consuming, mile for mile. (I ride a few thousand miles per year, but mostly not in the rain and never in the snow.)
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    The wear issue is real, but for a commuter bike, I'm not sure it's that big a deal. Wipe down and relube the chain every few weeks and the drivetrain will still last thousands of miles or more. Especially if it's a less cutting edge 8/9 speed system, which tend to be way less finicky to wear and tuning than the latest 12 speed stuff (which is awesome, but needs a lot more maintenance). Bearings these days are pretty well sealed and short of submerging the bike, not really a wear item for most users.
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    What do you do instead of riding when it’s wet or it snows? I bet it’s also harder on their drivetrains and biking is still cheaper. Spiked tires work really well in winter by the way.

vangelis 4y ago

It sounds like Minneapolis is doing great things.

pwenzel 4y ago

Minneapolis resident here. Biking is pretty serious in our city, even in the winter. Many of the bike lanes and paths are plowed with the same priority as car traffic. We also have the Grand Rounds, which is almost 80 miles of paths that circle the lakes in Minneapolis and further into St. Paul. It's pretty amazing.

onychomys 4y ago
The day after the Metrodome collapsed, I was able to bike to work on the greenway even though every road in town was out of commission. It was plowed with a higher priority than anywhere else!
WkndTriathlete 4y ago
Additionally, a lot of the county highways around Minneapolis have car-width shoulders. It's not all of them, but it's enough to ride 60-80-100 miles pretty easily without having to worry too much about getting picked off by a vehicle straying over the right lane line a little. Fat bike in the winter; road bike in the summer; fat bike/mountain bike on lots of mountain bike trails in the metro and outstate all year. It's pretty great.

TimPC 4y ago

69% doesn’t seem like the kinds of gains you’d hope for. If you’re going from unsafe infrastructure to protected bike paths I’d want to see a tripling of ridership.

zeroonetwothree 4y ago
Exactly. Before it must have been close to zero so we would expect a huge increase. Seems underwhelming
- anamexis 4y ago
  It was not close to zero before 2007. For quite a long time, Minneapolis has a solid set of bike paths and a good bicycle culture to accompany it - all along the Mississippi river, around the numerous lakes in the city, and also the Midtown Greenway, an off-grade rail trail that runs all the way from the river to the lakes, which opened in 2000. In addition to several other bicycle commuter paths that predate this change. These new bike lanes were the city doubling down on being a bicycle-friendly city.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  I didn't see any mention of starting numbers, at least not in the summary/abstract. I believe Minneapolis has been bike-friendly for quite some time, so the starting point was probably not zero.
rocketbop 4y ago
Without knowing the initial number of regular users and the initial number of potential users the percentage doesn't tell you much, not sure what is special about a 200% increase in isolation.

dhr 4y ago

I recently moved to the twin cities. The bike paths are absolutely amazing, and given that the whole state is pretty flat, it's not hard to get around the city for work or for fun. Bike paths are plowed in winter, but biking in -10C weather doesn't sound pleasant. I haven't tried winter biking yet, and honestly, I'm a bit scared to.

dylan604 4y ago
I haven't done -10C, but I've done 20F temps. With the proper layers it's not the worst. I find it better than 104F that I'm currently enduring. In cold, it is not uncommon for people to come inside and remove layers. In heat, it's just gross coming inside and sweating like you just climbed out of a pool.
bombcar 4y ago
It's surprisingly not bad - you don't even need the snow tires you see if the paths are plowed. Try it as it keeps getting colder, wear layers, and see how it goes. You may find that you don't need as much clothes as you thought you did.
- hyperbovine 4y ago
  https://barmitts.com/ https://barmitts.com/ I cannot emphasize enough how much less miserable these made my winter commute.
dominotw 4y ago
main thing is to invest in clothing that can expel sweat out from your clothing. Getting soaked in sweat is going to make you miserable. Start out with less layers than what you expect and shed layers ( into your backpack) as you are getting warmer. Also invest in mid to fat tires depending on the snow condition. Don't use road bike. wear high visibility clothing because of reduced visibility in winter. don't pivot around obstacles (snow covered potholes) suddenly, try to go over them or safely pivot by looking behind you.
michael1999 4y ago
Just ride later into the season each year, and start earlier each spring, and you'll figure it out.

zahma 4y ago

Not really surprised. The foundation was already there. Maybe 15-20 years ago Minneapolis started to build bike lanes along old railways and trolly lines. Some of the paths spanned the city and became thoroughfares totally isolated from traffic. The city had a good thing and kept at it. Good for them. Worth mentioning is that the city has grown in population. That was designed by previous mayoral campaigns to bring in industry. Lots of suburban folks also started moving back into the city too in the 2010s, so demographically the city was ripe to see more cycling. There’s also just a better culture for exercise and outdoor activity in Minneapolis. It used to be one of the fittest cities. I’m not sure this could work everywhere. Minneapolis has different planning than most cities I’ve seen. There’s a lot of residential space (that’s now being re-zoned), which means more room to build on and options in case bike paths reroute traffic. The streets are generally larger and there are lots of parallel avenues and boulevards that facilitate partitioning of cyclists and cars. Personally, I find this to be ideal for commuting, and Minneapolis began to experiment with closing streets to cyclists a long time ago. I’ll stop myself from ranting about the budget for interstates and road maintenance compared to the cost of 76mi bike lanes though.

dominotw 4y ago

> Compared to locations with no facility, sites with protected facilities had 113 more cyclists during the evening peak 2-hour count period (95% CI 16.19, 209.99; p = 0.02) and a greater rate of increase in cyclist counts over time. paper seems to be behind a wall. Hard to see what the actual number of cyclists this 69% represents.

nkurz 4y ago
https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf The paper seems to have the information you are looking for. If I'm reading it right, the numeric increase was from an average of 138 bicycles per site to 211 per site, measured over two hour periods in September.

simlevesque 4y ago

Build it and they will come.

joarv0249nw 4y ago

worldmerge 4y ago

I just visited Minneapolis for EYEO Festival. I was amazed at how good cycling was there. I now can't see my hometown the same and have started considering Minneapolis to move to. Check out PeopleForBikes' city ratings.

yboris 4y ago
Same here - just came back from EYEO Festival (which was amazing!) and was impressed with the bike-friendliness of the city. I drove around to explore the city by car and there were bike lanes in most places I drove.

taeric 4y ago

I'm assuming that the different increases are good? Certainly beats drops, but I always get suspicious when increases are couched in percentages. :(

whateveracct 4y ago

threevox 4y ago
Only on HN do you only get like 2 "nice" comments smh
- oneplane 4y ago
  There are more, but they get flagged because it's not really on-topic etc.

mablehealth 4y ago

Greenville, SC is similar. We have 27 miles of bike trails and it's always popular for work commutes or trips to the town north of us. Could be a great green initiative for numerous cities.

donatj 4y ago

Minneapolis resident here. Unlike the other Minneapolis resident here, I feel like I see most of the bike lanes entirely disused. A project in my neighborhood turned a major thoroughfare into a one way with a separated bike lane, and I've seen maybe 40 people use it since it's completion a few years ago. I'm curious what a 69% increase looks like in real numbers - a 20% increase on next to nothing is still next to nothing. In my honest opinion Minneapolis is 75% of the year too hot or too cold for all but the most keen bikers.

nightski 4y ago
It's been shown that temperature doesn't necessarily have a correlation with biking activity. It has a lot more to do with infrastructure [1]. I know I live in the tri-state area (MN,ND,SD) and bike year round. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
- donatj 4y ago
  I mean I can say without a doubt that I'm not personally going to cycle when it's above 85 or below 40. It's not a pleasant experience.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
> A project in my neighborhood turned a major thoroughfare into a one way with a separated bike lane, and I've seen maybe 40 people use it since it's completion a few years ago. How many cyclists you've personally witnessed using the lane is irrelevant. Look up the stats from a bike count. > In my honest opinion Minneapolis is 75% of the year too hot or too cold for all but the most keen bikers. Just goes to show the value of an opinion: 43% of Minneapolis bicyclists ride year-round: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36685502.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36685502.pdf Also, a few years ago your city had the third highest percentage of bicycle commuters in the country: https://www.startribune.com/bicycle-commuting-at-highest-rate-ever-in-minneapolis-and-st-paul/393618991/ https://www.startribune.com/bicycle-commuting-at-highest-rat...
- 4y ago

IYasha 4y ago

#bike4life :)

formerkrogemp 4y ago

I too miss all of the cycling I did in college. Unfortunately where I live now I'd just be run over if I were to cycle everywhere now. The costs of rural living I guess.

badRNG 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

Note that the improvement was on protected bike lanes, which is the key. A dedicated bike path (even if shared with pedestrians) is the kind of thing that gets people who don't ride to try riding. Painting some lines on the road can help once people are on the bike - we need more dedicated bike lanes and they should be designed to "shortcut" in ways that roads do not. Even things like "mostly" closing an alley to through car traffic and making it a bike "road" can work - people won't cut through it if cars are blocked from getting to the other end, but they can still use it to access back alley stuff if necessary.

toyg 4y ago
> Painting some lines on the road can help once people are on the bike Nah, it really doesn't. It just creates aggravation for cars and bikes alike, as both parties are stressed out about small spaces and eventually who-went-over-the-line. The only place it helps is at intersections, to favour filtering; whether that's a good thing per se, I'll leave for others to argue. This is one of those areas where politicians' default modes ("compromise" and "progressive improvement") just don't work. On busy roads, you either build wholly-separated spaces for bicycles and motor vehicles, or you might as well not bother. On tight streets, you close the street to motors or you might as well not bother. Painting lines is only useful to assuage somebody's conscience or tick some abstract box, not to actual road users. And I say that as a motorbike owner.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The places I've seen where line painting works is where it replaced on-street parking; a bike lane painted on a road that is 10-12 feet wide works well, for some value of well. The thin bike lanes added to roads are a joke most of the time.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    My city converted a lot of 4-lane roads to 2 traffic lanes, a centre-turn lane, and 2 wide bike lanes. It's great, cheap, and it really doesn't affect car traffic at all.

astuyvenberg 4y ago

After spending a decade living and biking around Minneapolis, I recently moved to Boston. The comparison of bicycle infrastructure (and number of people cycling) is stark. Given how bad the vehicle traffic is in Boston, I expected lots of bike commuters. But there's no cohesive bicycle infrastructure here. Protected lanes barely exist, and even when they do, they suddenly end - leaving you on the side of a busy road. Maybe one day Boston can catch up.

ocb 4y ago
It's a case of the relatively spread out development pattern and associated wide rights of way being advantageous. Minneapolis can tack on fairly substantial bike infrastructure without totally screwing over cars, which would be just as politically difficult in Minneapolis as any other American city. The Grand Rounds help a lot too. It's a great basis to have inherited from the past.
gen220 4y ago
Not a Boston resident, but have some friends up there who say that there are great bike paths for urban ingress/egress, but not particularly good for intra-urban travel. Does that match your experience?
- astuyvenberg 4y ago
  I've put on about 200 miles since moving to Boston, and that observation does not align with my experience at all. So far I've ridden one very good path connecting a few suburbs to Boston (Minuteman Bike Trail, a rails to trails path). There are other paths, but they're combined with running/walking trails and generally not conducive to bicycle travel. The bike lanes of nearby Somerville and Cambridge are okay, but still lacking in comparison with Minneapolis.
  - gen220 4y ago
    Gotcha, that's disappointing. I think my friends were riding along the Charles River, for what it's worth. They're more occasional bike commuters (once or twice per week) than a real serious bunch, and I don't know their start/end points. Rail-to-trail appears to be how most longish (10 mile +) bike paths come into existence in the northeast, from my observations. There's a lot less "free space" to work with than other parts of the country, since the land is so developed / dominated by automobiles.

nic_wilson 4y ago

I’ve been a bike commuter in Minneapolis for almost two decades at this point. It’s much better than it was. In the early 2000s I’d say most cars were not used to or expecting to share the streets with other forms of transportation. Back then it was not uncommon to have motorists hurl insults or trash at you from their window. Today it’s not that difficult to route your commute to most places entirely on bike specific infrastructure. On the other hand, over the last five years and especially since the pandemic I’ve noticed a huge increase in distracted drivers who are driving dangerously and unpredictably. All this is to say, a lot of people have done a lot of hard work which has made this a better place to live and bike in, but there is still a long way to go.

SeanLuke 4y ago

This was a case study with no control group. Case studies are, IMHO, close to useless. Having read the study, I'm not impressed. No attempt was made to compare Minneapolis with peer cities as controls, that is, ones which did not increase bike infrastructure. A limited model was attempted regarding climate impacts, but beyond this little was done to control for external factors. Thus we have no idea if the change in bike usage was due to the bike lanes or if it was due to some other factor, such as societal, environmental, or other changes in Minnesota, or the US, which increased ridership over the 7-year inclusive (!!!) time period of the study. Additionally, this study was essentially a before-and-after for the US's $25 million Nonmotorized Transportation Pilot Program (NTPP). The study is based on data gathered by parties highly invested in the program's success, such as Transit for Livable Communities (a nonprofit paid by Minnesota to manage the program), rather than disinterested parties. Do I want to see cycling successful? You bet I do. Does this paper tell us anything much? No, it does not.

alangibson 4y ago
You're right in your criticism of the study. Luckily the Netherlands has already proven that for bike infrastructure, if you build it they will come.
- Paianni 4y ago
  According to Figure 6 from the study linked below, the trend in cycling levels in the Netherlands was essentially flat from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s. I recall (but cannot find) a source with statistics that suggest a minor increase since then, but much of the current infrastructure was in place 15 years ago. http://web.archive.org/web/20150211090849/http://www.policy.rutgers.edu/faculty/pucher/Irresistible.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20150211090849/http://www.policy....
  - diordiderot 4y ago
    They built their cycle infrastructure through the 60s and 70s tho so that would make sense

Cenk 4y ago

Direct link to PDF: https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.trip.2022.100604.pdf

ordiel 4y ago

And how much of the general population does that total of people cycling is? Like 0.05% of the population? Cycling is nice healthy and eco-friendly yet being honest they dont trully serve a metropolitan area, more bus routes and comunal tranportation methods is what is trully needed on an urban area, Probably there were only 3 people using bikes and now there are 5, that is a HUGE percental increase but not quite significant as a whole

etskinner 4y ago
Anecdotal, but: Yesterday I rode on the Midtown Greenway, chain of lakes paths, Mississippi River Trail, and Minnehaha Creek trail in Minneapolis. They each serve as a big artery to access various semi-urban parts of the city. You'd be surprised how many people are out biking. Each of those trails have a road that runs parallel to them, and there are consistently more people on the trail than on the road. Meanwhile, the trails take up half the space of the road, and spacing between bikes can be much tighter. Each of those bike trails also has a nice pedestrian path running parallel. I'd estimate the portion of the nearby population utilizing either the bike or pedestrian trails is more like 20-30% I agree that improving bus infrastructure would be a huge help, but that's not mutually exclusive to improving bike infrastructure. If you haven't experienced biking in Minneapolis, please visit some time! Try our bike share bikes, and the trails above, and see for yourself.

swader999 4y ago

One life hack I'm going to encourage my kids to do is try to live within walking distance of work/school/grocery store to minimize dependancy on a car.

n4jm4 4y ago

I welcome biking. Sadly, the bike lane added to my home street is never used for biking.

tomc1985 4y ago

Meanwhile San Diego is adding bike lanes right and left and people are constantly bitching about them.

antihero 4y ago
It's because driving seems to lead many to a special kind of individualistic entitlement.
NoSorryCannot 4y ago
There are tatters of bike lanes which makes it hard to assemble a route without going through very uncomfortable traffic situations. Drivers are really, uh, spirited and unpredictable, as well. So they're not well-used yet, which some are taking as a signal that we should foreclose on the entire idea before it even truly gets started. San Diego needs to reconsider the design of virtually all of its surface roads. They're designed for 45mph traffic but the signs ask politely, maybe 25mph instead? Which everyone ignores.

jmyeet 4y ago

People not familiar with the US may not realize just how hostile US cities are to cyclists (and pedestrians). Some examples: 1. Turning right at red lights. Legal in most of the US. This is a huge safety issue for pedestrians and cyclists; 2. Many streets don't even have widewalks; 3. Many major roads don't even have any form of pedestrian crossings. For example, I had Google Maps tell me to just run across an 8 lane highway (at least there was somewhere safe to stand in the middle) where the speed limit was 45mph. Why? There was absolutely no alternative. In comparison, many freeways or highways in other countries will regularly have dedicated pedestrian crossing bridges. 4. In cities with a dedicated cycling lane in many US cities it gets used as extra parking, forcing cyclists out onto the road. Some I have sympathy for (eg delivery drivers) but many other people just don't give a shit they're blocking a lane of traffic and creating a safety issue. 5. Many Americans never walk anywhere so are an annoyance (if not an outright safety hazard) on any space shared with cyclists. I routinely see runners refuse to get out of the way in a dedicated cycle path. Many are oblivious and will just walk onto a cycle path without looking. I've had many near-misses this way. So there are a lot of things you can do to improve this situation, most of which doesn't take exttra room. For example: 1. Netherlands style intersections designed to improve cyclist safety [1]; 2. Suburbia is dominated by cul-de-sacs to avoid car through traffic. These back streets should have dedicated cycle paths (to avoid cycling on highways) combined with car-free connections to allow through-traffic and safe crossings o fhighways with lights if necessary; 3. Instead of road->cycle lane->parked cars create separation with road->parking->cycle path where the cycle path has a physical barrier to avoid people using it as parking; 4. Have islands separating traffic on roads. In addition to making driving safer, this island can make cycling safer as you can half-cross the road and then cross the rest when it's clear without impeding traffic or risking being hit; 5. Splitting straight and turn right lanes. This will create another island for safety and less guessing on what motorists will do. I guess I could summarize this as "just do what Amsterdam does". [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA

brewdad 4y ago
> 3. Instead of road->cycle lane->parked cars create separation with road->parking->cycle path where the cycle path has a physical barrier to avoid people using it as parking; We have setup #3, minus the physical barrier, on a few roads in my town. I can say as a driver it can be quite difficult to see cyclists when it comes time to make a right turn at an intersection or driveway. Additionally, dooring may be more likely on those roads since passengers aren't used to looking for cyclists on the curb side of the car.

jvanderbot 4y ago

Concur. I lived in minneapolis for a long time, and biked almost 100% (except winter). I have never felt more un-safe than when I tried to live this lifestyle in LA. In Minneapolis, you could ride along bike-specific greenways and literally stop at bike-only pubs, coffee shops, etc. It was quite accommodating. I'm sure much of that has changed with recent events, but I'm moving back and am cautiously optimistic.

bombcar 4y ago
Minneapolis has the advantage of some relatively major rivers, which provide convenient areas to run bike paths along. It works decently well.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I want to call out their conversion of old railways to "greenways" though. Rail lines are straight, off the main roads, have their own bridges, and usually run into the old warehouse areas that are actually the new build-up areas with all the cool bars, student housing, etc. Really smart use of existing infra.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Rails to trails is being done in multiple areas and is a great way to reuse right-of-ways (sometimes the railroad still owns them and has the right to redevelop them in the future!) that already exist, and you can even add trails next to active lines sometimes (especially since many "active" lines are one train a day or less). https://www.railstotrails.org https://www.railstotrails.org
rufus_foreman 4y ago
> and biked almost 100% (except winter) So like 50%?
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  You know, late Nov to Apr, is 50% of the year, so yeah. I usually biked starting in March.

stevenjgarner 4y ago

For those interested in outlying examples in the extreme, the 8-day Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa known as RAGBRAI takes more than 15,000 riders [1] on a different route across Iowa every year with different participating overnight communities selected each year. It is the "largest bike-touring event in the world" [2] "The University of Northern Iowa Sustainable Tourism and Environment Program conducted a (2008) study of RAGBRAI's economic impact on the state, and found the event generated nearly $25 million in direct spending. For overnight stops like Coralville and the points in between, that could mean more than $3 million a day in tourism spending." [3] [1] https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/living-well/ragbrai/2021/07/25/ragbrai-2021-departs-le-mars-more-than-15-000-riders-route/8086118002/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/living-well/rag... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGBRAI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGBRAI [3] https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/ragbrai-local-economy-millions-dollars/29940147/ https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/ra...

alexccccc 4y ago

YES. we need more bikes.