25 ms·
7-zip 22.00 – APFS, Posix TAR, high precision timestamps
- CodeBeater 4y agoIt's been a hot minute since I saw a release of major software on Sourceforge. Wow!
- lathiat 4y agoIntel out-of-tree NIC drivers too; https://sourceforge.net/projects/e1000/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/e1000/ - But there are not many!
- mprovost 4y agozsh too https://zsh.sourceforge.io/ https://zsh.sourceforge.io/
- joecool1029 4y agoA killer filesystem with a controversial history is a good match for sourceforge: https://sourceforge.net/projects/reiser4/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/reiser4/
- colejohnson66 4y agoThe Bochs emulator: https://bochs.sourceforge.io/ https://bochs.sourceforge.io/
- ssl232 4y agoI assume stupidity is to blame for SourceForge's current unpopularity. If they hadn't started bundling spyware with downloads and responded to GitHub's better features, their huge repertoire of legacy projects would have kept them relevant.
- jasonkhanlar 4y ago
- pabs3 4y agoGot a link to the GitLab thing? Personally I'd prefer SourceHut to become successful rather than SourceForge.
- simias 4y ago>infinite money glitch counterfeit naked short selling payment for order flow ponzi scheming financial terrorists Oh god I can't even escape from meme stock cultists on a hacker news story about 7zip? You guys are even more annoying than cryptobros, and that's saying something.
- lioeters 4y agoThe cultural zeitgeist has reached another level of loopy, particularly since twenty-twenty. Doing my best to find humor in the absurdity, of a world a bit broken.
- npteljes 4y agoThat and GitHub's UI was so much cleaner and professional looking. Even without the bundleware fiasco, the website was dated, and a maze to navigate. GitHub looked like the cool new kid on the block. I'm sure it would have been popular either way.
- kybernetikos 4y agoCLICK THIS HUGE BUTTON to DOWNLOAD (some advertisment on the download page) . . . (tiny download link)
- grumbel 4y ago7-zip now also has an official Linux version (`7zz`), which can be used to replace the unmaintained p7zip (`7zr`, `7za`, `7z`).
- prima-facie 4y agoThank you for pointing this out! This is the source of much confusion. Although Arch for example uses https://github.com/jinfeihan57/p7zip https://github.com/jinfeihan57/p7zip which seems to be reasonably maintained?
- kkshetty 4y agoAre you perhaps referring to the "7zip" package => https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/7zip https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/7zip ? It seems to be maintained by the Ubuntu MOTU Devs. I searched a lot but couldn't find this "7zz" package you mentioned.
- chupasaurus 4y agodfsg in the package version is a note that it's been taken directly from Debian.
- grumbel 4y agoThe "7zip" package is the official one. Linux support has been around before 22.00, but still relatively new. The old one is called "p7zip": https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/p7zip https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/p7zip That one hasn't seen new releases since 2016. The 7zz refers to the new binary name, which is different between the p7zip and 7zip packages.
- rsync 4y ago"7-zip now also has an official Linux version (`7zz`), which can be used to replace the unmaintained p7zip (`7zr`, `7za`, `7z`) ..." That's interesting, thanks. From time to time customers ask about adding "7zip" to the environment at rsync.net so that they can do things like: ssh user@rsync.net 7z blah blah ... ... and an official linux version would be a step closer to a solution there. I see that source is available so we should be able to compile it for FreeBSD without too much trouble ... I'll write up something in next quarters tech notes about it ...
- qwerty456127 4y agoPlease add (I believe this should be trivial) all the tar's metadata-related features (I mean saving links and access rights). There should be only one, all the archive formats different from 7z have to die. TAR and ZIP are both horrible. and should be displaced by 7Z.
- c0l0 4y agoThis is kinda naive to wish for - tar has applications that reach beyond stuffing a BLOB containing other BLOBs and some metadata into a seekable file somewhere, such as archiving data to magnetic tape/LTO. And even if you develop the perfect archive format that happens to nail every possible use-case 100% (which you won't, because there just are too many), you will STILL have to deal with compressed and archived artifacts which accumulated over the last six or so decades in various places.
- qwerty456127 4y ago> tar has applications... magnetic tape/LTO. That's a parallel universe far far away, ~99% of people having to use tar (just because it's the standard and the only format supporting links/access metadata) every day will never have to use a tape drive. I don't see a reason why we can't use 2 separate formats - one for everyday packaging, a different one for tape drives. > And even if you develop the perfect archive format There is a perfect format already - it's 7z. Just add file access rights and links support to it. No need to invent anything really new.
- kelnos 4y ago> There is a perfect format already - it's 7z. Just add file access rights and links support to it. These two sentences seem to contradict each other.
- qwerty456127 4y agoNot really. Adding support for a particular kind of metadata is a change so minuscule it doesn't qualify as a change in the format. Apple just stores their filesystem metadata as in a special sub-directory in ZIP files. And the only problem with the Apple's solution is nobody else respects it. 7zip is a format developed and maintained by a specific author who is alive and active so he can just build the same in the standard 7zip implementations and chances are everybody will accept. By the way I have just found an actual imperfection in 7zip: it can't let you choose the order in which archived files are stored in it nor chose different compression parameters for specific files. This limits its applicability. E.g. the EPUB standard says the first file in an archive must be "mimetype" and it must be not compressed. But I believe this can be fixed with reasonable ease (and probably without breaking changes) as well.
- integricho 4y agoInteresting seeing a new release shortly after 21.07 , since 21.07 has been in development for years? (afaik), until it finally came out. Does anyone know if somebody took over maintenance or they switched their internal processes to speed up development? or is it just that 21.07 has been such a huge chunk of work that it simply took long, and now we could expect more frequent releases? in any case, kudos to the continued development, this is one of my favorite pieces of software, no web bloat, just a very solid piece of engineering of a native application. I'd very much like to see more of these, instead of turning nowadays everything into a web app, I really find them unbearable most often, to the point that I even choose to use native software that's no longer maintained, if there's no other alternative to an electron/web resource hog, which are as far from snappiness as possible.
- themitigating 4y agoThe versioning 7-zip only rule is to increase the value, there is no system
- fomine3 4y agoYY.increment? Looks reasonable versioning scheme for application.
- pvillano 4y agoesp w/ jetbrains and their yearly (?) releases that appear to add whatever features they finished since the last release. I've also seen yyyy.increment.build
- themitigating 4y agoIt went from 4.65 to 9.04. Then later it jumped from 9.38 to 15.05. Then 16.02,16.03,16.04 , 17.00, 17.01, 18.00 These jumps don't correlate with major changes and major versions
- emn13 4y agoI'm not sure there's a "they" here; IIRC this is and always has been one man project by Igor Pavlov, who incidentally didn't just write the software, but also created the LZMA algorithm which has had an absurdly long run as one of the world-leading general purpose compression algorithms.
- ur-whale 4y agoSorry for the dumb question, but navigating sourceforge makes getting the answer hard to find. Is this OpenSource ?
- schwarze_pest 4y agohttps://www.7-zip.org https://www.7-zip.org
- zweifuss 4y agoYes. It's mostly LGPL: https://www.7-zip.org/license.txt https://www.7-zip.org/license.txt Compiling it yourself used to be difficult. Should be better now.
- anon_123g987 4y agoFor me, finding the exact licence (LGPLv2) on the SourceForge page was literally one click away: under the first tab labelled "Summary". Not too bad.
- billpg 4y agoWhen I last installed 7-zip, I had a merry time checking I had a genuine copy looking at SHA256 values from various sketchy websites as the installer wasn't signed. I persisted as 7-zip was just too darn useful but the experience puts me off upgrading.
- smileybarry 4y agoYeah, I'm not sure why 7-zip is still unsigned. Code signing certificates are cheaper now and it's much easier to check that than random hashes, not to mention reputation trusting by AVs and such.
- voltagex_ 4y agoWhere are the cheap certificates? It still won't guarantee you get to skip the bad smartscreen prompt, though.
- smileybarry 4y agoWell, relatively cheap. You have some Comodo/Sectigo/DigiCert resellers selling for $70-$100/year. And it won't instantly skip SmartScreen (that requires EV which is $300+) but it helps to establish reputation, i.e.: if you consistently release safe software signed with a cert named X, then SmartScreen and co. learn to give a good starting reputation to binaries signed by X.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago...
- arthurfm 4y agoLinux Foundation unveils Sigstore — a Let's Encrypt for code signing [1] [2] > The Linux Foundation, Red Hat, Google, and Purdue have unveiled the free 'sigstore' service that lets developers code-sign and verify open source software to prevent supply-chain attacks. > As demonstrated by the recent dependency confusion attacks and malicious typo-squatted NPM packages, the open-source ecosystem is commonly targeted for supply-chain attacks. > To pull these attacks off, threat actors will create malicious open-source packages and upload them to public repositories using names similar to popular legitimate packages. If a developer mistakenly includes the malicious package in their own project, malicious code will automatically be executed when the project is built. > To prevent these types of attacks, 'sigstore' will be a free-to-use non-profit software signing service that allows developers to sign open-source software and verify their authenticity. > "You can think of it like Let’s Encrypt for Code Signing. Just like how Let’s Encrypt provides free certificates and automation tooling for HTTPS, sigstore provides free certificates and tooling to automate and verify signatures of source code." [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/linux-foundation-unveils-sigstore-a-lets-encrypt-for-code-signing/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/linux-foundat... [2] https://www.sigstore.dev https://www.sigstore.dev
- bawolff 4y agoWoo posix tar. I've seen so many support questions related to people using 7zip to untar things
- girvo 4y agoI implemented POSIX TAR once, to talk to Docker over its Unix socket. Man that standard wasn’t easy to understand. Maybe I was just dumb though!
- chasil 4y agoThis script seems like a nice way to use tar with 7-zip 16.02. All the script targets are hard-linked together, and the the tar needs to be created as 7za's standard input with -si, not as a file. $ cat ~/bin/7ctar #!/bin/sh zfile=$1 shift case ${0##*/} in 7ltar) 7za x -so "$zfile" | tar tvf - "$@" ;; 7xtar) 7za x -so "$zfile" | tar xvf - "$@" ;; 7ctar) tar cvf - "$@" | 7za a -mx=9 -si "$zfile" ;; esac $ 7ctar test.tar.7z /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/hosts tar: Removing leading `/' from member names /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/hosts ... $ 7ltar test.tar.7z -rw-r--r-- root/root 3774 2021-11-17 12:52:56 etc/passwd -rw-r--r-- root/root 948 2019-08-08 09:52:52 etc/group -rw-r--r-- root/root 242 2017-08-31 09:57:40 etc/hosts $ ../7xtar test.tar.7z etc/passwd etc/group etc/hosts
- myng111 4y agoDid 7zip not support tar files before? Or is POSIX tar a particular standard that was not previously supported?
- chupasaurus 4y agoParticularly pax (aka extended tar) format wasn't previously supported.
- da_chicken 4y agoIt has had supported tar archives as long as I can remember. It's not had the best support for them, though, since it wouldn't always let you access the list of files in an archived tar. You often had to extract the tar to do that.
- usrname 4y agoDid they fix issue from 2005 when unpacking 800GB files its unpack first to c: %temp% that partition for OS has only 20GB, rather than to folder that was in config file or i have use still RAR ROTFL open source LOL
- mfost 4y agoAre you trying to drag and drop the files to the destination in a file explorer window? Because when I use "extract" and point the destination folder I don't think it does what you say.
- smileybarry 4y agoThat's only if you drag-and-drop and IIRC it's a Windows design problem of drag and drop. Just use "extract to" instead.
- sumtechguy 4y agoI use 7zip a decent amount. My only nit with it is its tendency to create badly fragmented files on compress. For large files you can be looking at 1000+ fragments. Been meaning to go thru the code and find where it is writing out the compress and add a bit of a buffer before write. That should let most filesystems allocate better. It may be also closing/opening the write file too much. But I have not dug into it.
- theandrewbailey 4y agoUse Peazip. I've never seen it extract to a temporary directory, then copy. It goes straight to where you want it. Also supports 7z. https://peazip.github.io/ https://peazip.github.io/
- sigio 4y agoCan't find the link to the source anywhere on the sourceforge page, I did find a github repo with claimed sources and a link to the sourceforge page, but that had code many years old. Anyone know if this is open source, and where the sources are supposed to be?
- da_chicken 4y agoThere's some source archives on the download page. https://www.7-zip.org/download.html https://www.7-zip.org/download.html
- redox99 4y agoIt might be "open source" technically but really it's source available. They just dump some source code every release. No commit history. No documentation. And although I haven't tried it, almost certainly you can't build it without reverse engineering the code and finding that it lacks either some build files, dependencies or whatever.
- account42 4y agoOpen source != bazaar development model. You may prefer the development to be in the open and that is fair (I do too) but don't mislabel things because of that.
- redox99 4y agoI already clarified that technically it's probably open source "Probably" because some projects like this don't actually include all parts of the source. FreeFileSync for example which claimed to be opensource, and they distributed some source, did in fact lack many parts, not just build files but actual source files (I think it can be built nowadays however). The big problem here isn't that you don't have a commit history. It's that these programs are often unbuildable. And often it seems that they are purposely distributed this way to deter other people from building or forking your software. Again however, I haven't actually checked the source files provided by 7zip in particular, but this problem I describe is a very common pattern in software whose source is distributed this way.
- amoshi 4y agoI open an archive and double click an exe that's bundled with some DLLs. What does WinRAR do? Unpack all the files and open the exe, everything works fine. What does 7zip do? It just unpacks that single exe that then fails to run cause the DLLs weren't extracted.
- lizardactivist 4y agoDefinitely sounds like 7zip takes security more seriously -- I would definitely want my archiving software to only handle archiving, not starting programs for me.
- ylyn 4y agoThen use WinRAR. For the rest of us, this is expected behaviour, and I don't want 7z special-casing exes or always extracting all files in an archive just to open one.
- rat9988 4y agoAren't all extension special cased anyway?
- amoshi 4y agoIt could always be a setting. Feels like yet another situation where OSS prioritises principles over usability/practicality/reality.
- stavros 4y agoIf I want to open the README in a multi-gigabyte archive, why would I expect to extract all of it, even as a setting? This seems the expected and reasonable behavior to me, as a second data point.
- amoshi 4y agoBecause of the behaviour I detailed in my initial post? Wouldn't apply to ReadMe's though, it doesn't have to be that dumb. At least one other poster agrees with me in the comments too.
- oefrha 4y agoVery tangential: I was zipping up an executable for a Windows-using friend just yesterday, and the exe had a non-ASCII filename. I first zipped it with macOS command line zip(1). Surprised to learn that it unzipped into a gibberish filename on Windows. I then tried to “Compress to ZIP file” from Windows 11 File Explorer, and it wouldn’t even let me do that: “… cannot be compressed because it includes characters that cannot be used in a compressed folder…” How the hell is that acceptable in 2022?
- baisq 4y agohttps://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180515-00/?p=98755 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180515-00/?p=98...
- porbelm 4y agoWindows is full of forbidden path characters, and it always will be until they abolish some forty years of backwards compatibility (the CON, allowed characters etc) and expose their quite modern file system for what it is, abolishing fucking drive letters once and for all.
- oefrha 4y agoIn this case these are not forbidden path characters, just non-Latin characters without any special meaning. At some point you should say "fuck Latin-1, this looks like Unicode so we're decoding as Unicode", not "don't use the Latin alphabet? You don't deserve to use a computer". Not being able to use perfectly normal strings like aux or nul as filenames is of course an entirely different category of madness.
- ok123456 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts
- edflsafoiewq 4y agoThere is a bit in the ZIP that's supposed to tell you the path and comment are encoded in UTF8. It's bit 11 of the general purpose flag. Despite being there since 2006 it's poorly supported by Windows and Mac. I believe Mac writes the path in UTF8 but doesn't set the bit.
- InvisibleUp 4y agoIt would be nice if 7-zip added support for the new Windows 11 context menu. It requires that each context item is registered to an application and gets removed when the app is uninstalled, instead of the current free-for-all. [1] There's a fork, NanaZip, that adds this and a few more features, although the way it's structured makes it a non-trivial patch. [2] [1] https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extending-the-context-menu-and-share-dialog-in-windows-11/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extend... [2] https://github.com/M2Team/NanaZip https://github.com/M2Team/NanaZip
- SquareWheel 4y agoI'd like this as well. As a workaround for now, you can right-click drag the icon elsewhere in the same directory/desktop. This will pop up the legacy context menu with 7-Zip available for use. Yes you can click "Show More Options" as well, but I find the drag operation much faster once you get the habit down.
- smileybarry 4y agoThis pops-up the "copy here"/"move here"/"7-zip archive here" move context menu, sadly. (Or maybe it does now on Windows 11 22H2, build 22621)
- SquareWheel 4y agoThat sounds like the right menu. Maybe you just have 7-Zip configured differently than me. I have Extract and Add to... enabled as my context menu options to keep things cleaner. https://i.imgur.com/lcfXbXn.png https://i.imgur.com/lcfXbXn.png
- smileybarry 4y agoNo, that's the one, what I mean is that this isn't the old context menu but the "move here" mini context menu. It doesn't have everything like rename, properties, etc. so it's not a workaround for "show more options" for things that aren't 7-zip.
- lizardactivist 4y agoThe author should host the software in a more respectful place like GitLab. Sourceforge's inclusion of spyware and malware in downloads, and the current owner's willful ignorance of racism and hate-speech in other publications (Slashdot) is not a sign of a serious company offering a serious service.
- Chris2048 4y agoAny source for "racism and hate-speech in [Slashdot]"?
- lizardactivist 4y agoSlashdot comments section is the source. I have not used it since 2019, but at that point it was still rife with hate speech directed towards the chinese, the russian, and generally black and brown people. And I do not have a curated journal of this ready for your inspection, you simply have to trawl the comments section yourself. That way you don't have to take my word for it.
- Chris2048 4y agoThen maybe you should provide that context: that this is simply your own opinion based on observing user comments, rather than an objectively established fact. How do you determine that comment curation that fails your own standards is "willful ignorance" on behalf of the owner?
- lizardactivist 4y agoI would say that language involving derogatory names for black people, arabs, russians, and asians, would always be objective established as racism. I don't know why anyone would disagree with that. And I reported hundreds of comments with language like this over the years, and whenever I followed up on it I always found the comments still present in the discussion thread.
- tssva 4y ago
- gxt 4y ago7z needs to sign their binaries on windows.
- account42 4y agoMicrosoft needs to provide reasonable means for open source developer to sign their binaries on windows. Having to pay for the priviledge of being allowed to provide free software is not reasonable.
- badsectoracula 4y agoHaving to pay for the privilege to provide any software is not reasonable, Microsoft is just giving the certificate cartels unjustified power (which wouldn't be solved if Microsoft themselves signed the software since that'd still be giving Microsoft said unjustified power).
- WorldMaker 4y agoMicrosoft provides the Microsoft Store which when you distribute apps through it Microsoft can handle all the binary signing. The price of that has dropped down to $19/year for "individual developers" [1]. That seems pretty reasonable to me, I'd hope most open source developers could get at least get a Github sponsorship for $20 every 12 months. Rumors are that if you are an open source developer with a well known app you can get the "developer account" for free if you find the right channel to ask, they do seem to want more "official" distributions of open source on the Store. Obviously, that's not the answer a lot of open source developers want because of mistrust in the Store and Store distribution, but after years of all the complaints of the CA cartels and people asking for an alternative, Microsoft built an alternative (and no one came, lol). [1] https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-store/register/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-store/regist...
- tech234a 4y agoThe $19 appears to be a one time fee, not an annual one.
- Dracophoenix 4y agoIs there a reason that the official version of 7zip still refuses to incorporate Zstd compression?
- neandrake 4y agoI saw notes about improved support for tar which had my hopes up but it doesn’t look like any changes were made to make handling of compressed tar files easier. For both compressing and decompressing it’s a two step process with 7zip which is pretty frustrating. On Mac I use Keka which makes it really simple. On Windows using 7zip first you have to compress to tar then compress to gzip or other, same with decompressing to first extract the tar and then unpack the tar. Otherwise it’s fantastic for my use cases.
- metalliqaz 4y agoyes that has always bugged me. it seems like in the rare cases where someone actually wants the .tar on the desktop, there could be a different "extract tar" or "extract inner" for that.
- throwaway787544 4y agoCan anyone recommend an archive format that is better than zip and tar? I don't like tar because I can't list or extract from the archive without decompressing everything , zip is problematic on some systems due to legacy crap, and I want strong encryption and good compression by default that also won't be screwed up by legacy systems. Rather use a brand new format that can't be accidentally screwed up on some systems by some clients
- easytiger 4y ago> * I don't like tar because I can't list or extract from the archive without decompressing everything* huh? $ tar tvzf test.tar.gz Really only rar which approached the thing differently
- smileybarry 4y agotar.gz requires decompressing everything (in-memory at least) in sequence because the compression is separate from the archive format. It's a tar archive compressed entirely in a gzip container, whereas (e.g.) zip has a file table that can be accessed without decompression.
- easytiger 4y agoi see what you mean. Well rar does what you want i think.
- smileybarry 4y agoRAR is problematically proprietary though, and I'm not sure where it stands on licensing to other programs.
- Diti 4y agoWell, 7z is a fine archive format which fulfills your requirements…
- genpfault 4y agoRAR-style embedded forward error correction[1] ("Recovery records"[2])? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_correction_code#Forward_error_correction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_correction_code#Forward_... [2]: https://www.win-rar.com/recovery-record.html?&L=0 https://www.win-rar.com/recovery-record.html?&L=0
- account42 4y agoIn case you want that for a format that doesn't have it: https://github.com/Parchive/par2cmdline https://github.com/Parchive/par2cmdline
- david_frier 4y agoGiven that not EVERYBODY does EVERYTHING on Linux in the CLI, can anyone recommend a GUI archive handler like engrampa, but that is not bound to p7zip and will instead use 7zz?
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y agoSometimes I want to output specific files from a zip file to stdout. These programs can list the files in the archive, but I have never found an easy way to extract specific files without having to type paths on the command line, or use a filelist (something like tar xf 1.tar -T list which zip utilities generally cannot do). Until I am advised of something better, a quick and dirty solution: usage: 1.sh 1.zip # displays list of files with line numbers 1.sh 1.zip 5p # extracts the file listed on line 5 to stdout 1.sh 1.zip 5,6p # extracts the files listed on lines 5 and 6 to stdout 1.sh 1.zip 5p\;8p # extracts the files listed on lines 5 and 8 to stdout 1.sh 1.zip /src/ # extracts the files with "src" in their path to stdout case $# in :) ;;1)exec 7z l $1|sed -n '/^---/,/^---/{/^---/!p;}'|cat -n ;;2) y=$1 shift x=$(7z l $y|sed -n "/^---/,/^---/{/^---/d;s/.* //p;}"|sed -n "$@") 7z x -so $y $x exec echo ;;0|*)exec echo usage: $0 zip-file \[sed cmd\] esac;
- mughinn 4y agoNice to see it finally has an option to propagate Mark-of-the-Web (is it on by default?), it has been like 10 years since it was reported as a bug and was a possible hole in security for any organization that used it
- annoyingnoob 4y agoDoes this update resolve CVE-2022-29072? I guess not. This says its still open, disputed, and not a 7-zip issue exactly: https://sourceforge.net/p/sevenzip/bugs/2340/ https://sourceforge.net/p/sevenzip/bugs/2340/ Would be nice to know if or how 7-zip plans to address this. Patch management tools are going to call this a vulnerability until there is some resolution.
- kasabali 4y agoWait for Microsoft to fix their privilege escalation bug in help viewer?
- AceJohnny2 4y agoIt's nice to be reminded how even the (unix-)ubiquitous "tar" format really isn't standard, for those of use used to living in the GNU/Linux land. By nature of being so ancient, it's had limitations that had to be expanded and patched around across different systems. https://invisible-island.net/autoconf/portability-tar.html https://invisible-island.net/autoconf/portability-tar.html
- ramyarjahani 4y ago[dead]